How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi
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I have a phone that I'm using for internet access (due to unlimited data), and I'd like to share it on my wifi network so other devices can connect, like my and my wife's phones (both have limited data) and my wife's laptop.
The layout is something like this graphic:
The main laptop (connected to the dock) has internet through the internet phone, which is tethered via USB to the dock. The cable that connects the dock (Kensington SD4700P) and the laptop carries all sorts of stuff – power for the laptop, video to two additional monitors, usb connections for mouse/keyboard, etc. There is an ethernet cable from the dock to the wifi router.
In the Network Connections screen in the Control Panel (Win10 Enterprise), I've set the internet phone's connection ("Ethernet 4" - "Remote NDIS based Internet Sharing Device") to be shared with the router's ethernet connection ("Ethernet 3" - "SD4700P USB Ethernet"). However, other devices connected to the wifi network do not have internet access.
How can I get internet to the wifi network? Should the ethernet cable from the dock to the router be connected to the "internet" ethernet port or one of the four other ethernet ports on the router? Do I need to bridge the connections?
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@djls45 which port on the router is it plugged in to? You'll have to set the laptop as the default gateway if it's on the LAN side, or you can double (triple?) NAT by plugging it into the WAN port
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@sloosecannon It's on one of the LAN ports right now. Is the default gateway a setting on the router or in the computer network settings? Is it easier to set up NAT with the WAN port?
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@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
Is the default gateway a setting on the router or in the computer network settings?
Should be a setting that the router pushes to the computers via DHCP, so "either, but the router is easier" is the answer.
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@djls45 this is one of those times a router with a USB port is amazing, because you could just plug your phone into the router and tell it the new USB NIC is the WAN and everything "just works".
Failing that, if you want to keep using Windows' Internet connection sharing, you'll need to disable the DHCP server on your router so every other device ends up asking your PC for IP information. Especially if you want other devices to be able to talk to said PC (and vice versa).
If that is not important to you, simply plug your computer into the WAN port of the router and everything should flow.
Edit: after double-reading the OP, it seems you have two Ethernet let's ports? So in theory you could plug in both, but that will make some great confusion...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@djls45 this is one of those times a router with a USB port is amazing, because you could just plug your phone into the router and tell it the new USB NIC is the WAN and everything "just works".
Oh, huh. My router (Cisco Linksys E3200) does have a USB port. I wondered what that was for. I guessed it was just some kind of maintenance port. I'll try this.
if you want to keep using Windows' Internet connection sharing, you'll need to disable the DHCP server on your router so every other device ends up asking your PC for IP information. Especially if you want other devices to be able to talk to said PC (and vice versa).
That's probably what I'm missing from my current setup. I just had everything set to automatic IP assignment and left the router's DHCP service on.
If that is not important to you, simply plug your computer into the WAN port of the router and everything should flow.
I tried that, and the computer just lists that ethernet connection as an "Unidentified network". I think I'd have to manually assign an IP address for the computer...?
Edit: after double-reading the OP, it seems you have two Ethernet let's ports? So in theory you could plug in both, but that will make some great confusion...
I think you typo'd...?
There's an ethernet port on the laptop and an ethernet port on the dock. I could connect both of them to ports on the router, but, as you said, that is an easy way to cause confusion.
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@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
My router (Cisco Linksys E3200) does have a USB port.
As it turns out, it's just to connect USB storage or a USB printer. It doesn't seem to support a USB network access device, like a dial-up or cable modem or a tethered phone.
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Ok, I got it working. However, it requires me to manually set the IP address of the computer's connection to the router, of the router itself, and of every device I connect to the wifi. I don't know how to set the computer to be the DHCP server so it will automatically assign IP addresses.
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@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
Ok, I got it working. However, it requires me to manually set the IP address of the computer's connection to the router, of the router itself, and of every device I connect to the wifi. I don't know how to set the computer to be the DHCP server so it will automatically assign IP addresses.
That's partly why I mentioned disabling the routers' DHCP server, it's probably handing out IP addresses before your PC can give them out itself.
The computer's LAN-facing Ethernet port gets set to a static IP address (supposedly automatically, apparently this did not happen?) when you enable ICS, and starts a DHCP server on said interface.
Remind me tomorrow to draw up some pictures if you're still having trouble.
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@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
My router (Cisco Linksys E3200) does have a USB port.
As it turns out, it's just to connect USB storage or a USB printer. It doesn't seem to support a USB network access device, like a dial-up or cable modem or a tethered phone.
Yeah, consumer firmware is fucking limited, but I've had some pretty good success with dd-wrt (despite its age).
Your router is very old but should definitely be supported if you wanna try that route.
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@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
I think I'd have to manually assign an IP address for the computer...?
You would, you could give it a 172 private address on the WAN port and that should work.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
Ok, I got it working. However, it requires me to manually set the IP address of the computer's connection to the router, of the router itself, and of every device I connect to the wifi. I don't know how to set the computer to be the DHCP server so it will automatically assign IP addresses.
That's partly why I mentioned disabling the routers' DHCP server, it's probably handing out IP addresses before your PC can give them out itself.
The computer's LAN-facing Ethernet port gets set to a static IP address (supposedly automatically, apparently this did not happen?) when you enable ICS, and starts a DHCP server on said interface.
Remind me tomorrow to draw up some pictures if you're still having trouble.
AFAICT, when I disabled the router's DHCP server, the computer's LAN connection just kept spinning to try to connect; I'm pretty sure it wasn't claiming an IP address; I had to manually set a static IP address for both the computer and the router.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
dd-wrt
I'll probably try this at some point, especially if I need to get others to be able to connect. Setting manual IPs one time for 4 or 5 things so they can connect isn't too much trouble atm for me.
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@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
I have a phone that I'm using for internet access (due to unlimited data), and I'd like to share it on my wifi network so other devices can connect, like my and my wife's phones (both have limited data) and my wife's laptop.
Something I haven't seen brought up yet:
While you may have unlimited data on your phone, that typically (at least with US carriers) doesn't fully extend to "tethered" devices such as laptops. Most carriers' data plans will give you X amount of tethered data at full speed and then anything beyond that is "maybe 3Mbps if you're lucky and have amazing signal" level. Have you checked to see whether your data plan supports tethering, including limits on it?
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@e4tmyl33t said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
"tethered" devices
One thing that always baffled me is, how do they detect such a status? I know carrier-locked usually has the system query the subscription in order to enable the toggle itself, but besides seeing specific DNS queries and IP addresses being accessed out of the blue, how would they know? And how would they know when said access stopped?
FWIW I've had tethering on all my phones (thanks root) without the specific line item on the bill that says I can. Even though I never really use it except for testing/troubleshooting something internet related.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@e4tmyl33t said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
"tethered" devices
One thing that always baffled me is, how do they detect such a status? I know carrier-locked usually has the system query the subscription in order to enable the toggle itself, but besides seeing specific DNS queries and IP addresses being accessed out of the blue, how would they know? And how would they know when said access stopped?
FWIW I've had tethering on all my phones (thanks root) without the specific line item on the bill that says I can. Even though I never really use it except for testing/troubleshooting something internet related.
I suspect there's some special functionality for it in the OS.
In Europe I think discriminating tethered data is not allowed due to network neutrality.
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@e4tmyl33t said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
I have a phone that I'm using for internet access (due to unlimited data), and I'd like to share it on my wifi network so other devices can connect, like my and my wife's phones (both have limited data) and my wife's laptop.
Something I haven't seen brought up yet:
While you may have unlimited data on your phone, that typically (at least with US carriers) doesn't fully extend to "tethered" devices such as laptops. Most carriers' data plans will give you X amount of tethered data at full speed and then anything beyond that is "maybe 3Mbps if you're lucky and have amazing signal" level. Have you checked to see whether your data plan supports tethering, including limits on it?
That's actually part of what I looked at when I was looking for internet for where I live. Since I'm ~6 miles from the nearest city limits, I'm ~2 miles short of fiber/cable/dsl internet, and satellite internet has the triple problems of high cost, high latency, and weather disruption. Cell-phone based internet is really the only economical option. I signed up with Visible, which promises truly unlimited data, including tethering. Using the phone as a mobile hotspot gets throttled down to 5 Mbps; that's fast enough for me and my internet usage. And since several people in my family also signed up for exactly the same reason, we can get together with their Party Pay and get this service for only $25/mo each.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
I know carrier-locked usually has the system query the subscription in order to enable the toggle itself
That's how. System tethering tracks how much data is used and can report it back.
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@sloosecannon said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
I know carrier-locked usually has the system query the subscription in order to enable the toggle itself
That's how. System tethering tracks how much data is used and can report it back.
Case in point:
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@sloosecannon said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
and can report it back.
but what is making it "report" it, and how is it done? Can the carrier literally just say "Hey, X System App, how much data you use"?And if so, wouldn't they be worked around by any other random app hooking that away?
Others have other theories, like packet deep inspection or whatever, but then I'd ask why it would be such a hard thing to have the programming doing NAT just simply not decrease the TTL number or whatever else...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@sloosecannon said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
and can report it back.
but what is making it "report" it, and how is it done? Can the carrier literally just say "Hey, X System App, how much data you use"?And if so, wouldn't they be worked around by any other random app hooking that away?
Others have other theories, like packet deep inspection or whatever, but then I'd ask why it would be such a hard thing to have the programming doing NAT just simply not decrease the TTL number or whatever else...
It's done through the same low-level shit that ties the tethering app in to the carrier to check your "entitlement".
Since it's the tethering app doing the actual tethering, it's pretty easy for it to report, and it's reasonably accurate to the actual usage.
Of course, with root you can work around that and tether anyways, but at that point you're rooted and anything your phone tells the carrier could be a lie
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@sloosecannon In
at least it seems that tethering is allowednot actively blocked, but putting the same sim in a 4G router will get you a seize and desist letter. (So I put the simcard back in the phone again and all was good) We used 5-10GB per day either way, so apparently they only react when the card is used in a data-only device. Or maybe they only react because they also offer data-only subscriptions at twice the rate...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
but what is making it "report" it, and how is it done? Can the carrier literally just say "Hey, X System App, how much data you use"?Yes, because X System App is written by the carrier. The distributions of Android preloaded on the phone and received OTA are carrier-specific (if you're not running AOSP or a custom mod and you look at your system apps, you should see this). This is why it's important to consider the carrier when determining the lifecycle of a phone (does the carrier have a reputation of releasing new versions of Android or security updates in a timely manner or do they drop support after a year in favor of the new hotness?). It's usually somewhere in between; they'll do whatever causes the least technical support inquiries.
And if so, wouldn't they be worked around by any other random app hooking that away?
No, because those hooks and queries are only available to privileged applications.
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@heterodox thank you for reminding me why I never use carried-providers devices....
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@sloosecannon said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
It's done through the same low-level shit that ties the tethering app in to the carrier to check your "entitlement".
Specifically, tethering/hotspot routes packets through the OS kernel of the phone in bridge mode; that knows exactly how much data has gone through.
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@dkf There are also apps that can do the bridging themselves, like PdaNet+, which prevents the OS from being able to track the tethering/hotspot data separately from other (i.e. app) data usage.
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@heterodox said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
but what is making it "report" it, and how is it done? Can the carrier literally just say "Hey, X System App, how much data you use"?Yes, because X System App is written by the carrier. The distributions of Android preloaded on the phone and received OTA are carrier-specific (if you're not running AOSP or a custom mod and you look at your system apps, you should see this). This is why it's important to consider the carrier when determining the lifecycle of a phone (does the carrier have a reputation of releasing new versions of Android or security updates in a timely manner or do they drop support after a year in favor of the new hotness?). It's usually somewhere in between; they'll do whatever causes the least technical support inquiries.
And if so, wouldn't they be worked around by any other random app hooking that away?
No, because those hooks and queries are only available to privileged applications.
Yeah.
Specifically, I think in Kitkat...? they built in carrier-specific stuff to the built-in tethering app in AOSP that made it very easy for a carrier to modify it.
@Tsaukpaetra said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@heterodox thank you for reminding me why I never use carried-providers devices....
Indeed...
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@djls45 said in How to set up ICS from tethered phone to wifi:
@dkf There are also apps that can do the bridging themselves, like PdaNet+, which prevents the OS from being able to track the tethering/hotspot data separately from other (i.e. app) data usage.
Oh, I remember using that way back when! Thanks for that blast from the past.
