Unreal claims concerning purple
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Maybe the color was variations of green?
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@Gąska said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
this simplistic idea that there exists one-to-one mapping between colors and RGB values.
There is? once R, G, and B are defined. These colour spaces are three-dimensional so that they uniquely map out colours.
I meant to point out that most displays, especially ones in cheap and gaming laptops, aren't physically capable of displaying the difference between, say, #0204FB and #0303FC.
That’s not exactly a fair example – sRGB was designed for CRTs, and typical LCDs don’t get complete coverage of it, especially in the saturated blue regions. Now considering that both of those are saturated sRGB blues… a typical display can’t properly show the difference because it can’t show either colour in the first place.
A fairer example is something like #cbcdcb vs #cccccc (CSS notation, which specifies sRGB) – if I move my head around, I can reliably find spot that difference on my displays, literally the cheapest 1080p LCDs I could find at the time. They’re probably still cheaper than anything I could find in a store today.
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@kazitor said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Gąska said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
this simplistic idea that there exists one-to-one mapping between colors and RGB values.
There is? once R, G, and B are defined. These colour spaces are three-dimensional so that they uniquely map out colours.
Yes, except:
- This only works if you define a color as a combination of red, green and blue light. If you define it e.g. as an arbitrary mix of arbitrary EM waves, RGB doesn't cover everything.
- If you define color based on human perception, you can have different kinds of EM waves (so different RGB values) that look completely identical due to how human eye works, and you can't do anything about it.
- Even in just the world of computer graphics, raw RGB values aren't enough to tell you the color. At the very least you also need gamma. That results in both multiple colors for same RGB values and multiple RGB values for the same color.
Only within confines of one specific color space standard - and there are many conflicting ones in active use - you can define a one-to-one relationship between RGB and color. Just remember that having real-world, mass-produced devices that accurately represent all of them is a pipe dream.
That’s not exactly a fair example
I know. But I'm not an expert on computer visions and wanted to avoid a
situation by picking an example that I'm absolutely sure that's correct.
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@kazitor also, remember that high-brightness colors are physically further apart than low-brightness colors. That's literally what gamma is about. Try repeating your "experiment" with all components under 0x40.
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@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
I don't know how to intentionally mix colors to make brown
Red plus green usually does the trick.
but I will end up with brown if I make a mess of mixing colors.
Or that, of course.
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@dkf said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
That's not universal at all. The particular activation of photoreceptors might be largely common across all people, but the interpretation of that — the label, “pink”, in your mind — is very much not. That's far more culturally driven than most people like to admit.
Colours are anyway, and most people have great trouble accepting this if you tell them that colour perception has a cultural element.
A few years ago, I was watching something on TV about this, where some experiment was done with (IIRC) Europeans and native people in southern Africa. They were all shown successive circles of coloured spots on a monitor screen and asked to point out the one that was differently coloured. The interesting bit is that in some of these circles, the Africans had great trouble finding one that the Europeans spotted immediately, and vice versa.
Then there’s the fun bit where it’s hard to even find the right way to get across that that green thing over there might be called a blue thing in some parts of the world. Or even that pink and orange were just considered shades of red a few centuries ago (“Why do you think people with clearly orange hair are called redheads?”
insert_image("Irish_girl.jpg")). Etc.
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@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
WAG, a culture where life revolves around bodies of water. The different variations of blue may depend on season, animal migration, safe for traveling, etc.
Dutch experience suggests that such a culture will mainly develop a technical vocabulary relating to water (distinguishing many different types of water courses, for example), has many sayings and expressions related to sailing, etc., but not a great deal of colour names inspired by it.
I cannot think of why pink would become distinct in our culture.
Another fun bit: did you know that the cultural meaning of pink has shifted drastically over the past 100–150 years or so? Of course pink is a girly colour very suitable for young girls’ toys, books, clothes, bedroom furniture, etc. etc. etc. But go back a few centuries and pink was considered a masculine colour in European cultures, as it was seen as a shade of red, which was associated with masculinity. I don’t quite know why that shifted, but these days you will find pretty much nobody who thinks of pink as masculine in western culture. (Well, that is, I of course have an army of pink Space Marines for Warhammer 40,000 …)
I'd like to read something variations of color by culture and their likely cause
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@Gurth said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
Then there’s the fun bit where it’s hard to even find the right way to get across that that green thing over there might be called a blue thing in some parts of the world.
My gf and I keep keep disagreeing whether some shades of turquoise are green or blue.
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@Gurth said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
these days you will find pretty much nobody who thinks of pink as masculine in western culture
could not be reached for comment.
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@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
I cannot think of why pink would become distinct in our culture.
For what is worth, a cursory web search for the English word's etymology suggests it might come either from the common name of the Dianthus flower or from the act of a white person closing their eyes (blink). Or possibly from small salmons.
There's also a distinct word in the Romance languages — "rosa"/"rose", from the flower — which might have helped it gain its distinct status as well.
Couldn't be arsed to investigate more about this.
Filed under: Happy New Year, New Zealand
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@Parody said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
Schrödinger's Color: are these Ticket to Ride cards Pink or Purple?
(I like to call it pinkle.)
Pfft. I prefer to call it "purnk".
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@Steve_The_Cynic May I suggest "purplink"?
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That man (centre frame) is wearing pink. If you think it is red, you are a plebeian.
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@Gąska said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@sockpuppet7 seems to have this simplistic idea that there exists one-to-one mapping between colors and RGB values.
I know, sometimes there is the alpha channel too, but I usually don't think of them when someone say color
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@Gąska said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
RGB doesn't cover everything.
Did you ever found something that you can't capture a meaningful aproximation of it's color on your cell phone RGB based camera? If you're going beyond what my eye can distinguish I reject your use of the word "color" for that
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@Gąska said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
Even in just the world of computer graphics, raw RGB values aren't enough to tell you the color. At the very least you also need gamma. That results in both multiple colors for same RGB values and multiple RGB values for the same color.
Normally you would at least try to keep those apart. Meaning there isn't a single RGB space, but you have (for example) the linear RGB values in which you do computation, and then sRGB values which you store in e.g. a texture or framebuffer. But those are different, incompatible spaces, and you shouldn't mix them without converting in between. In that case, each color has an unique representation in the respective RGB space. (But you're right in that there isn't an unique mapping back from RGB triplet to color spectrum, as discussed upthread.)
Edit: And a gamma value isn't enough to define the RGB space. See different RGB spaces in one of the figures upthreads. These days, gamma is a bit of a hack for dealing with low bit-width (3x8bit) colors, ideally we wouldn't need it. Using 8 bit per channel is kinda convenient, so it's unlikely to go away, however.
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@Gurth said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
I don't know how to intentionally mix colors to make brown
Red plus green usually does the trick.
Opposite colors on the color wheel.
I tried to dye my daughters hair blue, the result was greenish because she had yellow undertone left in her hair.
I plan on correcting it today by adding purple to cancel out the yellow.
My hair is currently reddish purple, I want it more purple and will be adding blue.
Follow me for more hair color tips.
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@Zecc said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Gurth said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
Then there’s the fun bit where it’s hard to even find the right way to get across that that green thing over there might be called a blue thing in some parts of the world.
My gf and I keep keep disagreeing whether some shades of turquoise are green or blue.
Yes.
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@sockpuppet7 said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Gąska said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
RGB doesn't cover everything.
Did you ever found something that you can't capture a meaningful aproximation of it's color on your cell phone RGB based camera?
Absolutely, all the time. Especially in nighttime.
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@Gurth said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
But go back a few centuries and pink was considered a masculine colour in European cultures
Only about one century. IIRC, it was in the early 20th century that the change happened.
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@Zecc said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
My gf and I keep keep disagreeing whether some shades of turquoise are green or blue.
FWIW, this is important because the hue impacts the price of turquoise (gemstone). Pure blue turquoise is significantly more expensive than greenish turquoise.
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@boomzilla Thank you. I was about to reply complaining that @Gurth had failed to actually insert the image.
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@sockpuppet7 said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
Did you ever found something that you can't capture a meaningful aproximation of it's color on your cell phone RGB based camera?
I remember reading something, probably in a photography magazine or website, a number of ago. It was probably about the time that digital photography was really pushing film out of the picture. A newspaper photographer had to use film to photograph a (nighttime, IIRC) fire, because she knew from experience that the digital camera would give completely unusable results; the flames would appear magenta, not the red/orange/yellow that the eye would perceive.
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@Gurth said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
Another fun bit: did you know that the cultural meaning of pink has shifted drastically over the past 100–150 years or so?
This has been brought up before, but there's little evidence of it. Straight Dope has more:
By midcentury baby clothing in colors other than white had begun to appear, but gender-based distinctions were slow to emerge. In 1855 the New York Times reported on a “baby show” put on by P.T. Barnum, exhibiting “one hundred and odd babies” dressed in pinks, blues, and other colors seemingly without regard to gender. In a passage from Louisa May Alcott’s 1868-’69 blockbuster Little Women, a female twin is distinguished by a pink ribbon and a male twin by a blue one, but this is referred to as “French fashion,” suggesting it wasn’t the rule over here. A Times fashion report from 1880 has boys and girls dressed alike in white, pink, blue, or violet, and another from 1892 says young girls were wearing a variety of colors that spring, including several shades of blue.
and a bit later
I’m not convinced, however, that there was ever a consensus that pink was for boys and blue was for girls. On the contrary, indications are the two colors were used interchangeably until World War II. Examples of pink as a mark of the feminine aren’t hard to come by, one of the cruder being the use of a pink triangle to identify homosexuals in Nazi prison camps. After the war the tide shifted permanently in favor of blue as a boy’s color. In 1948, royal-watchers reported Princess Elizabeth was obviously expecting a boy, since a temporary nursery set up in Buckingham Palace was gaily trimmed with blue satin bows. By 1959 the infantwear buyer for one department store was telling the Times, “A mother will allow her girl to wear blue, but daddy will never permit his son to wear pink.”
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@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
I'd like to read something variations of color by culture and their likely cause
In addition to the Wikipedia link that's already been posted, this one may also be interesting:
For example, a green traffic light is considered blue in Japanese. And that's not because they use different traffic lights (at least in Tokyo - while the color is bluer than the one used in Europe, I would definitely call it a shade of green, not a shade of blue).
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@HardwareGeek said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@boomzilla Thank you. I was about to reply complaining that @Gurth had failed to actually insert the image.
I
’d tracking it down.
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@Zerosquare I think that’s the article I was actually looking for when I came across the one I linked to.
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@hungrier said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
This has been brought up before, but there's little evidence of it.
I have strong anecdotal evidence that the interwar generation in Poland (and very possibly earlier generations too) had a very strong opinion that light blue is reserved for girls and women only, much like pink was in the 90s.
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@Gąska Eastern Europe may be Different™ in this regard. In Russian, galuboy is slang for gay.
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@hungrier hey, Poland is not Eastern Europe, it's Central! Look at our crosses!
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@hungrier said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Gurth said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
Another fun bit: did you know that the cultural meaning of pink has shifted drastically over the past 100–150 years or so?
This has been brought up before, but there's little evidence of it. Straight Dope has more:
By midcentury baby clothing in colors other than white had begun to appear, but gender-based distinctions were slow to emerge. In 1855 the New York Times reported on a “baby show” put on by P.T. Barnum, exhibiting “one hundred and odd babies” dressed in pinks, blues, and other colors seemingly without regard to gender. In a passage from Louisa May Alcott’s 1868-’69 blockbuster Little Women, a female twin is distinguished by a pink ribbon and a male twin by a blue one, but this is referred to as “French fashion,” suggesting it wasn’t the rule over here. A Times fashion report from 1880 has boys and girls dressed alike in white, pink, blue, or violet, and another from 1892 says young girls were wearing a variety of colors that spring, including several shades of blue.
and a bit later
I’m not convinced, however, that there was ever a consensus that pink was for boys and blue was for girls. On the contrary, indications are the two colors were used interchangeably until World War II. Examples of pink as a mark of the feminine aren’t hard to come by, one of the cruder being the use of a pink triangle to identify homosexuals in Nazi prison camps. After the war the tide shifted permanently in favor of blue as a boy’s color. In 1948, royal-watchers reported Princess Elizabeth was obviously expecting a boy, since a temporary nursery set up in Buckingham Palace was gaily trimmed with blue satin bows. By 1959 the infantwear buyer for one department store was telling the Times, “A mother will allow her girl to wear blue, but daddy will never permit his son to wear pink.”
We didn't tell people the gender of my daughter because I didn't want gifts of only pink. I like pink, it's just EVERYTHING would be pink.
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@Zerosquare said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
I'd like to read something variations of color by culture and their likely cause
In addition to the Wikipedia link that's already been posted, this one may also be interesting:
For example, a green traffic light is considered blue in Japanese. And that's not because they use different traffic lights (at least in Tokyo - while the color is bluer than the one used in Europe, I would definitely call it a shade of green, not a shade of blue).
Thank you, I've only read a small part. But interesting that many cultures did have a name for light blue (mostly referring to sky) so why don't all cultures? We all see the sky.
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@Karla
has a word other than blue for the color of the sky. Grey.
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@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
We didn't tell people the gender of my daughter because I didn't want gifts of only pink. I like pink, it's just EVERYTHING would be pink.
You might need better acquaintances.
I mean, you're in this forum. I think that's telling.
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@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
Thank you, I've only read a small part. But interesting that many cultures did have a name for light blue (mostly referring to sky) so why don't all cultures? We all see the sky.
Curiously, even Londoners have a word for "blue".
Edit:
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@Zecc said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
We didn't tell people the gender of my daughter because I didn't want gifts of only pink. I like pink, it's just EVERYTHING would be pink.
You might need better acquaintances.
I mean, you're in this forum. I think that's telling.
That would require me to be a better acquaintance and
.
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@HardwareGeek said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
sky blue (γαλάζιο, galazio) is different than other shades of blue
Of course it is, gray isn't a blue colour!
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@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Zerosquare said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
I'd like to read something variations of color by culture and their likely cause
In addition to the Wikipedia link that's already been posted, this one may also be interesting:
For example, a green traffic light is considered blue in Japanese. And that's not because they use different traffic lights (at least in Tokyo - while the color is bluer than the one used in Europe, I would definitely call it a shade of green, not a shade of blue).
Thank you, I've only read a small part. But interesting that many cultures did have a name for light blue (mostly referring to sky) so why don't all cultures? We all see the sky.
Because the sky regularly look like this:
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@Zecc said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
Curiously, even Londoners have a word for "blue".
They do: it's “Chelsea”.
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@HardwareGeek said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla
has a word other than blue for the color of the sky. Grey.I thought it was White.
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@dkf said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
They do: it's “Chelsea”.
That reference went over my head.
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@dcon said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@HardwareGeek said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla
has a word other than blue for the color of the sky. Grey.I thought it was White.
No, that's their word for "ground".
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@HardwareGeek said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla
has a word other than blue for the color of the sky. Grey.In England they call it “wet”?!
E: dang it.
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@Carnage said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Zerosquare said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
I'd like to read something variations of color by culture and their likely cause
In addition to the Wikipedia link that's already been posted, this one may also be interesting:
For example, a green traffic light is considered blue in Japanese. And that's not because they use different traffic lights (at least in Tokyo - while the color is bluer than the one used in Europe, I would definitely call it a shade of green, not a shade of blue).
Thank you, I've only read a small part. But interesting that many cultures did have a name for light blue (mostly referring to sky) so why don't all cultures? We all see the sky.
Because the sky regularly look like this:
That is beautiful.
The important question, was that at night or in the morning.
One of my grandparents told me when I was a tween:
Red skies at night
Sailors delight
Red skies in the morning
Sailors warning
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@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
when I was a tween
When you were a tween, tween wasn't even a word.
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@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Carnage said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Zerosquare said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
I'd like to read something variations of color by culture and their likely cause
In addition to the Wikipedia link that's already been posted, this one may also be interesting:
For example, a green traffic light is considered blue in Japanese. And that's not because they use different traffic lights (at least in Tokyo - while the color is bluer than the one used in Europe, I would definitely call it a shade of green, not a shade of blue).
Thank you, I've only read a small part. But interesting that many cultures did have a name for light blue (mostly referring to sky) so why don't all cultures? We all see the sky.
Because the sky regularly look like this:
That is beautiful.
The important question, was that at night or in the morning.
One of my grandparents told me when I was a tween:
Red skies at night
Sailors delight
Red skies in the morning
Sailors warningLooks like an evening.
This is what a red sky looks like here
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@Gąska said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
when I was a tween
When you were a tween, tween wasn't even a word.
I don't think @Karla's that old.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/tween :
tween (prep.)
also 'tween, c. 1300 as an abbreviation of between. As a noun meaning "child nearing puberty" (approximately ages 9 to 12), attested by 1988, in this case by influence of teen. Tolkien uses it in "Lord of the Rings" for "the irresponsible twenties between [Hobbit] childhood and coming of age at thirty-three." Earlier in this sense was subteen (1952). Related: Tweens. Tweenie or tweeny was a term (late 19c.-early 20c.) for "between-maid, a servant who assists two others" and was used in reference to other persons or objects in intermediary situations. And 'tween-age (adj.) was used in descriptions of clothing from 1937. Tween-ager is attested from 1946.
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@Gąska said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
@Karla said in Unreal claims concerning purple:
when I was a tween
When you were a tween, tween wasn't even a word.
Get off my lawn.
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Linguistic relativity and the color naming debate - Wikipedia
