Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!
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@Zerosquare In fact can we create a Garage metagopic "In which two or three bloody assholes are relentlessly twatventilating again, and you should scroll past"?
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
No, but you mention your Christian views for everything, and thus by @GuyWhoKilledBear's doctrine mentioning it means wanting to force the whole world into it. (Which by the way makes it political and every time you mention your Christian views it automatically belongs in the garage.) Them's the rules.
Being a Christian means being in alignment with the Christ in every action. Every utterance. Even without mentioning Christ.
But at the same time, your actions are propelled by whatever it is you worship. There is no man without a religion, even if that religion is just worship of yourself.Start banning views, and you might as well dissolve the whole forum, for there will be no meaningful discussion anymore.
Also bear in mind that you brought up Christianity. Until then, it was a discussion based on views and opinions, and for all I know, @GuyWhoKilledBear 's opinion on this particular subject was formed after reading a Time magazine article.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Start banning views, and you might as well dissolve the whole forum, for there will be no meaningful discussion anymore.
That specifically referred to a previous debate of "you must not mention these things outside the garage" and who went all out on it. I was just following through.
Also bear in mind that you brought up Christianity.
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@topspin Huh. I guess you mean this part.
@GuyWhoKilledBear said:
Then in prison, he Gets Religion and what he did was wrong and harmful to others and shameful to himself. There's no forgiveness for what he did and his conditions aren't going to get any better. Ever.
The prison guard sees this asshole tying his bedsheet into a noose. Should the prison guard intervene?
Honestly didn't notice that. I guess I skimmed over it. Got me there.
I also notice you didn't answer his question.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
But at the same time, your actions are propelled by whatever it is you worship. There is no man without a religion, even if that religion is just worship of yourself.
This is what you believe. It's quite a leap to then assume that this means that everyone else agrees with it. If someone does not consider belief to be a central part of their identity, is it correct to assert that they must have a religion anyway, or is it fundamentally insulting?
Let's let this particular aspect go. It's heading straight towards the otherwise.
Being a Christian means being in alignment with the Christ in every action. Every utterance. Even without mentioning Christ.
It means that you feel that it is right and proper to attempt to do so, not that you succeed.
To recap my position: forcing someone to stay alive can be equivalent to torturing them, and forcing someone to die can most certainly be murder. It's almost as if the real problem is in forcing them...
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This post is deleted!
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
But at the same time, your actions are propelled by whatever it is you worship. There is no man without a religion, even if that religion is just worship of yourself.
This is what you believe. It's quite a leap to then assume that this means that everyone else agrees with it. If someone does not consider belief to be a central part of their identity, is it correct to assert that they must have a religion anyway, or is it fundamentally insulting?
Lucky for us, we're in the COIVD topic. So much of COVID practice - including lockdowns, including masks, and yes, including the vaccine - were not scientifically justified. People were forced into them to signal virtue and their fealty to a beliefs of a particular set of high priests.
Broader than that, The Left spends an inordinate amount of time going after blasphemy in general.
Call that "not a religion" as much as you want.
The point is that @topspin is dismissing the idea that "Suicide is bad and government anti-suicide programs can be good if well-executed" because he says it's a Christian idea and all Christian ideas are bad.
For one thing, it's not a Christian idea. Sure, every Christian is supposed to believe it, and Christians are the ones advocating for it in this topic, but there's a big enough constituency for anti-suicide among non-Christians that I don't think we can take all the credit.
For the other thing, the argument boils down to the fact that @topspin is arguing that his morality is better than mine because he puts a RELIGION=FALSE tag on his.
Being a Christian means being in alignment with the Christ in every action. Every utterance. Even without mentioning Christ.
It means that you feel that it is right and proper to attempt to do so, not that you succeed.
I have no idea what this means. Yes, I'm against physician assisted suicide. @topspin, and a lot of other people probably, were able to guess why before I explicitly said it. That sounds a lot like "succeeding in being in alignment with Christ without mentioning Christ" to me.
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@lolwhat Two years late and a trillion dollars shorter.
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@HardwareGeek It might seem surprising, but good lawyers exist. For example around here it was lawyers who made the biggest dent in covidism (they persuaded the supreme administrative court that limiting some services to the vaccinated is discriminatory when the vaccination does not stop the spread and then the government finally gave up trying to ignore that court's rulings by reissuing the abolished regulations).
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@HardwareGeek It might seem surprising, but good lawyers exist. For example around here it was lawyers who made the biggest dent in covidism (they persuaded the supreme administrative court that limiting some services to the vaccinated is discriminatory when the vaccination does not stop the spread and then the government finally gave up trying to ignore that court's rulings by reissuing the abolished regulations).
Right. Can we keep this stuff and whether it's good or not to the relevant threads please.
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@Bulb said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
For example around here it was lawyers who made the biggest dent in covidism
I'm looking at the title and this is clearly a covid thread.
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@GOG Because it was jeffed. It was an answer to a completely different dread originally.
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@Bulb I noticed your post was jeffed, but I missed that Rhywden's was too.
Right. NVM.
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I was going to request that an unjeffed post be preemptively unrerejeffed, but I find that that post has been jeffed, or possibly never existed.
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This is fun:
Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that around 7 percent of Americans are currently experiencing long COVID symptoms, which would be over 15 million people. Some people with long COVID have been so debilitated that they cannot go to work, the same has been reported in people experiencing post-vaccine symptoms.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
This is fun:
Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that around 7 percent of Americans are currently experiencing long COVID symptoms, which would be over 15 million people. Some people with long COVID have been so debilitated that they cannot go to work, the same has been reported in people experiencing post-vaccine symptoms.
Jessica "COVID vaccines will digitize the human" Rose and Pierre "ivermectin" Kory in the Epoch Times.
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But not many.
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
But not many.
You can safely assume they validate your worst fears and wildest assumptions.
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@lolwhat dunno, my grandpa died years ago and he never got a BA.5 shot.
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Should've played the Powerball, I guess.
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@lolwhat
https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/i-know-some-of-these-words-gif-1.gifActually, I think I understood enough to come up with this layman's TL;DR:
Autopsies were done on 35 people who died suddenly shortly after being vaccinated. 10 of these died of pre-existing illnesses and were not studied further. Of the remaining 25, 5 were found to have myocarditis. (There is no mention of what the other 20 died of.) They did a bunch of tests I don't understand using methods I don't understand to look for other possible causes of myocarditis. 4 of the 5 had no other known cause of myocarditis; 1 had another virus known to sometimes cause it, so the vaccination was called a possible, rather than likely, cause in that case. (One of the other 4 was also labeled possible for reasons I didn't understand, so 2 possible and 3 likely.)The specific type of T-lymphocyes (white blood cells, part of the immune system) found in the myocarditis suggests that something is triggering an autoimmune response, and the immune system is attacking the heart and damaging it.
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@lolwhat I don't remember which of the CDn receptors do what, but from the sound of it and my vague recollection it sounds much worse than I expected. Because T-cells don't deal with proteins in the blood plasma, they deal with what other cells are doing (and report via their MHC). So either the vaccine, despite being injected in the muscle, somehow preferentially makes it into the heart, or worse it triggers an auto-immune response due to similarity between some part of the spike protein to a different protein naturally expressed in the heart. Those are really bad options.
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@Bulb said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
the vaccine, despite being injected in the muscle
The authors mentioned that inadvertent vascular injection (into a small vein in the muscle, I assume) might play a role. I'd have to read it again to (try to) figure out why, and .
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@Bulb said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
So either the vaccine, despite being injected in the muscle, somehow preferentially makes it into the heart
Unless the muscle tissue absorbs all of the mRNA, everything injected will make its way into the blood vessels; the body has no other long-distance transport mechanism. Also, all the blood coming from muscles will go via veins (vs. arteries) through the heart to the lungs (without stopping in any other organ on the way). Then, being oxygenated, it goes back to the heart, before passing on to other organs again.
So, if there was any issue with the... checks notes ...lipid nanoparticle encapsulation finding its way into the muscle cells and opening there, the heart would be first in the line of fire.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Unless the muscle tissue absorbs all of the mRNA, everything injected will make its way into the blood vessels; the body has no other long-distance transport mechanism.
I think it has others, but the vascular system is the main one and the only relevant one in this case. The lymphatic system doesn't do the sort of transport of materials that would be relevant here, and nerves transport signals rather than material.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Another data request by the proto-Nazis with the same nonsense conclusions they had here, where the AfD say they found a bomb and the association of physicians says they haven't.
https://www.zi.de/presse/presseinformationen/13-dezember-2022
Translation of statement found in the comments:
The excitement about possibly increased deaths in 2021 lacks any basis. In fact, the development of the annual crude diagnosis prevalence after evaluation of the complete SHI-accredited physician billing data for the years 2012 to 2022 shows no conspicuities for the individual diagnosis codes highlighted by the AfD (ICD-10 codes R96-R98, I46.1, I46.9) in the entire period. There is no contradiction with the data used by the AfD. Rather, the phenomenon observed by the AfD is a logical consequence of the data evaluation. To our knowledge, Martin Sichert, a member of the Bundestag, requested contract physician billing data from the KBV in three steps:
In the first step, the data of all statutorily insured persons with health insurance who received an ICD coding for vaccination side effects (codes T88.1, T88.0, U12.9, and Y59.9) in 2021 were requested. For the insured population identified in this way, the second step was to list the frequencies of all diagnosis codes by quarter for the period 2016 to 2021. In the third step, the frequencies of all diagnosis codes for the remaining insureds with statutory health insurance (minus the insured collective covered under step 1) should be counted by quarters for the period 2016 to 2021.
In order to be able to compare the collectives in steps 2 and 3, the entire data set must refer to insured persons who have used at least one medical service in at least one quarter in 2021. Of these, logically, insureds may not die until 2021, for which corresponding codes cannot then be assigned until 2021. Thus, the apparent increase in codes for deaths is a logical consequence of data selection and methodologically known as the cohort effect. On the other hand, with the very rare occurrence of some codes for deaths in preceding years, this cohort may just be errors in entry or transmission.
Summary: bad statistics due to cohort effect.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
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@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
That's a bit harsh for hookers. They are not considered respectable, but what did they do to you that you compare them to insurance companies?
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@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
That's a bit harsh for hookers. They are not considered respectable, but what did they do you that you compare them to insurance companies?
I see you prefer obviously wrong conclusions when it collides with your preferred sources of knowledge such as “value” or “opinion.”
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
That's a bit harsh for hookers. They are not considered respectable, but what did they do you that you compare them to insurance companies?
I see you prefer obviously wrong conclusions when it collides with your preferred sources of knowledge such as “value” or “opinion.”
For special values of 'obviously', absolutely.
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@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
That's a bit harsh for hookers. They are not considered respectable, but what did they do you that you compare them to insurance companies?
I see you prefer obviously wrong conclusions when it collides with your preferred sources of knowledge such as “value” or “opinion.”
For special values of 'obviously', absolutely.
You think the conclusion that people "who received an ICD coding in 2021" did not die before 2021 is not obvious?
Elaborate.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
That's a bit harsh for hookers. They are not considered respectable, but what did they do you that you compare them to insurance companies?
I see you prefer obviously wrong conclusions when it collides with your preferred sources of knowledge such as “value” or “opinion.”
For special values of 'obviously', absolutely.
You think the conclusion that people "who received an ICD coding in 2021" did not die before 2021 is not obvious?
Elaborate.Maybe you should read the article you are commenting.
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@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
That's a bit harsh for hookers. They are not considered respectable, but what did they do you that you compare them to insurance companies?
I see you prefer obviously wrong conclusions when it collides with your preferred sources of knowledge such as “value” or “opinion.”
For special values of 'obviously', absolutely.
You think the conclusion that people "who received an ICD coding in 2021" did not die before 2021 is not obvious?
Elaborate.Maybe you should read the article you are commenting.
I did. Do you have anything of value to add other than "I'm not telling you"?
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
That's a bit harsh for hookers. They are not considered respectable, but what did they do you that you compare them to insurance companies?
I see you prefer obviously wrong conclusions when it collides with your preferred sources of knowledge such as “value” or “opinion.”
For special values of 'obviously', absolutely.
You think the conclusion that people "who received an ICD coding in 2021" did not die before 2021 is not obvious?
Elaborate.Maybe you should read the article you are commenting.
I did. Do you have anything of value to add other than "I'm not telling you"?
No
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@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
That's a bit harsh for hookers. They are not considered respectable, but what did they do you that you compare them to insurance companies?
I see you prefer obviously wrong conclusions when it collides with your preferred sources of knowledge such as “value” or “opinion.”
For special values of 'obviously', absolutely.
You think the conclusion that people "who received an ICD coding in 2021" did not die before 2021 is not obvious?
Elaborate.Maybe you should read the article you are commenting.
I did. Do you have anything of value to add other than "I'm not telling you"?
No
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Yes, Virginia, there is a Left Garage.
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Official government statistics from Finland for 2021. These recently became available.
Koronarokotuksia alettiin antaa Suomessa vuosien 2020–2021 vaihteessa. Covid-19-rokotteen aiheuttamiin haittavaikutuksiin kuoli vuonna 2021 kuusi henkilöä. Nuorin menehtynyt henkilö kuului 20–24-vuotiaiden ikäryhmään ja vanhin 90–94-vuotiaiden ikäryhmään. Lisäksi koronarokotteen haittavaikutus oli mainittu myötävaikuttavana kuolemansyynä 15 kuolintodistuksella.
Google translation:
Corona vaccinations started to be given in Finland at the turn of 2020–2021. In 2021, six people died from adverse effects caused by the Covid-19 vaccine. The youngest person who died belonged to the age group of 20–24 years and the oldest to the age group of 90–94 years. In addition, the adverse effect of the corona vaccine was mentioned as a contributing cause of death on 15 death certificates.
For comparison, of the 952 found to have died of COVID-19 as the prime cause of death. Age distribution was as follows:
The lowest 3 bars, since they are hard-to-read blips, are according to a background data query:
30-34: 3 persons
25-29: 1 person
20-24: 1 person
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@MrL said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
association of physicians says
I'd take word from association of hookers and pimps before them.
That's where the data comes from.
That's a bit harsh for hookers. They are not considered respectable, but what did they do you that you compare them to insurance companies?
I see you prefer obviously wrong conclusions when it collides with your preferred sources of knowledge such as “value” or “opinion.”
For special values of 'obviously', absolutely.
You think the conclusion that people "who received an ICD coding in 2021" did not die before 2021 is not obvious?
Elaborate.I'm not sure how that lines up with this chart:
Presumably the people who died back in 2016 didn't have any insurance claims for 2021.
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@boomzilla read the part in the details section. The data being bad doesn't make conclusions drawn from it more trustworthy.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla read the part in the details section. The data being bad doesn't make conclusions drawn from it more trustworthy.
Yes, it was the details section to which I was referring. Not following their so-called "logical consequence."
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla read the part in the details section. The data being bad doesn't make conclusions drawn from it more trustworthy.
Yes, it was the details section to which I was referring. Not following their so-called "logical consequence."
Well, the data for 2016 to 2020 is clearly wrong, so not sure what more there is to say about it. And it cannot be correct for what you're looking for by the method they chose.