DEAR FIREFOX
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Further gripes and grumbles: The Firefox version of Tree Tabs doesn't let you drag tabs around without focusing them, but that's somewhat mitigated by Youtube videos not auto-playing when the tab is focused.
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@hungrier said in DEAR FIREFOX:
Since switching to Firefox from a Chrome-ish browser on my desktop, I've been irked by a couple things:
- opening too many tabs completely kills any responsiveness in the entire browser
- videos lag and stutter all the time
Huh. My experience is the opposite. Chrome is really unresponsive, especially when reopening the browser. It can take as much as a half-hour for it to finish loading tabs and become usefully responsive. Firefox seems to load tabs only when they get focus, so it's much quicker to become usable when starting. I don't generally have problems with videos, either.
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@HardwareGeek Browsers are the wurst of the worst
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@HardwareGeek said in DEAR FIREFOX:
@hungrier said in DEAR FIREFOX:
Since switching to Firefox from a Chrome-ish browser on my desktop, I've been irked by a couple things:
- opening too many tabs completely kills any responsiveness in the entire browser
- videos lag and stutter all the time
Huh. My experience is the opposite. Chrome is really unresponsive, especially when reopening the browser. It can take as much as a half-hour for it to finish loading tabs and become usefully responsive. Firefox seems to load tabs only when they get focus, so it's much quicker to become usable when starting. I don't generally have problems with videos, either.
Weird; I haven't had those problems with any of the modern browsers. I use Firefox for video streaming; every once in a great while a video freezes until I reload its tab, but otherwise it's been fine. Startup times aren't any worse than any other large application opening a file, but I keep the tab counts down.
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Same here:
- I have hundreds* of tabs open, and Firefox still loads in a few seconds
- I don't remember experiencing any video issues
- When a tab becomes unresponsive (which is very rare), at worst it also impacts the tab right next to it; others are not affected.
* yes, really. I... think I may have a tab hoarding problem.
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@Zerosquare said in DEAR FIREFOX:
I... think I may have a tab hoarding problem.
I don't think you've got a problem there.
:D
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@Parody said in DEAR FIREFOX:
but I keep the tab counts down.
I don't, and it still starts fast.
Other than the very rare "okay, who's running a hanging script?" I've never had any problems.
Okay, I do have a problem with URLs which don't finish loading not being registered in history sometimes. But
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@Zerosquare said in DEAR FIREFOX:
I... think I may have a tab hoarding problem.
One of my tabs is literally titled "Tab hoarding".
I use it to identity the window with the most tabs.
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@Zerosquare said in DEAR FIREFOX:
I have hundreds* of tabs open, and Firefox still loads in a few seconds
Firefox loading initially is fine, and in the past couple days I've determined that restarting the browser every once in a while is the key to having acceptable performance. But the other day when I complained about it, I had a nearly unusable browser that lagged to shit in all windows - having opened a bunch of Youtube tabs after having had the browser open for a while:
I closed it, and a few minutes after all the windows had closed, I still had a bunch of leftover processes running, same as the reason I had stopped using Firefox in the first place, 12 years ago or however long it's been:
After force closing all those processes and restarting the browser, everything mostly worked ok. Except Youtube videos still sometimes have hiccups
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Both main browsers seem to have unreasonable memory usage. How can it take 200MB to render a web page ffs?
But yeah I switched to Firefox last time Chrome annoyed me too much, but I might be going back again. After being open for a day or so, Firefox seems to end up sitting on 5GB of memory and hitting the page file, which causes stuttering on everything else too. Chrome is a memory hog too but at least you can close the tab processes that are being the worst about it one by one.
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@bobjanova said in DEAR FIREFOX:
Chrome is a memory hog too but at least you can close the tab processes that are being the worst about it one by one.
Firefox has about:performance. It's not something I've used much, so I don't know if there is a keyboard shortcut to open it.
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@Zecc said in DEAR FIREFOX:
@bobjanova said in DEAR FIREFOX:
Chrome is a memory hog too but at least you can close the tab processes that are being the worst about it one by one.
Firefox has about:performance. It's not something I've used much, so I don't know if there is a keyboard shortcut to open it.
There's not.
Firefox is better than Chrome (Iow bar, I know) for excessive memory consumption for me but then I'm not one of those crazy tab hoarders.
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@loopback0 Yeah, I hate those tab hoarders.
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@bobjanova said in DEAR FIREFOX:
How can it take 200MB to render a web page ffs?
Maybe you haven't noticed, but these days rendering a web page essentially means running an OS. I'm pretty sure that's somehow related.
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@ixvedeusi A 200MB overhead on the browser as a whole I can kind of see, given that modern developers seem to have completely forgotten that memory is a limited resource. But all that sandbox-OS stuff should surely be shared between tabs.
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@Zecc said in DEAR FIREFOX:
Firefox has about:performance.
It does, but it was giving nonsense results - when firefox.exe was eating 5GB of RAM the total on about:performance was about 500MB. Except the about:performance tab itself which it claimed was using 2.5GB lol
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@hungrier said in DEAR FIREFOX:
I closed it, and a few minutes after all the windows had closed, I still had a bunch of leftover processes running, same as the reason I had stopped using Firefox in the first place, 12 years ago or however long it's been:
Oh my god, yes. "You already have a running version of firefox. Close that first before trying to open a new one." Or whatever that message is.
I keep firefox open to run pandora. I use chrome for phone calls and have to switch its audio between speakers and my headset. Doing that for music is annoying.
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@hungrier said in DEAR FIREFOX:
that's somewhat mitigated by Youtube videos not auto-playing when the tab is focused.
Really? They don't for me.
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@Tsaukpaetra I think videos only auto-play for me in Firefox if I left click and open them in the current tab. Otherwise, if I open a new tab, they don't play until I manually click the button. This is in contrast to Opera where they would play right away after activating the tab.
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@hungrier said in DEAR FIREFOX:
@Tsaukpaetra I think videos only auto-play for me in Firefox if I left click and open them in the current tab. Otherwise, if I open a new tab, they don't play until I manually click the button. This is in contrast to Opera where they would play right away after activating the tab.
Yeah, Chrome here. It stops them playing until I touch their tab. Fun things happen when I drag out a tab and the next one is a YouTube video that starts going off...
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Firefox 120.0:
- We will now auto-refuse cookie popups (in Germany);
- We will by default remove URI parameters used for user tracking (in private windows, in Germany);
- Do something to prevent fingerprint via the Canvas API;
- Tell websites you don't want to be tracked by sending them HTTP headers. That'll show 'em.
Users' privacy, yo!
Also Firefox 120.0:
- Here's an API to detect whether the user has been active on this page recently.
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Not sure if this is Firefox's fault, Windows 11's multi-monitor/resolution handling or what, but
Here are a couple normal windows:
One of them maximizes properly:
The other one doesn't
e: it works after restarting Firefox, as it did before
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@hungrier So, basically, Firefox sucks at sucking?
The main thing I detest about Firefox is the build that's on my $JOB machine (Ubuntu 20.04LTS) is that it's Canonical's version, and it silently (with no way to alter this behaviour) updates itself in the background. This has two major, and severely undesirable, consequences:
- It forces a restart unexpectly, above all when I open a new tab.
- It doesn't work right in the existing tabs.
- It resets its view of certificate authorities to its own default, which requires me (and everyone else in R&D) to launch a specific set of wibbly updates via Puppet - may its creators burn in all the Hells at once, having been chastised by a GAU-8 beforehand - in order for more or less anything to work properly.
No, I'm not happy about this situation. Why do you ask?
EDIT: yes, I'm aware that I cannot count. If you want to make an issue of that, you can FOAD.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in DEAR FIREFOX:
Puppet - may its creators burn in all the Hells at once, having been chastised by a GAU-8 beforehand -
That's exactly how my company's infrastructure team feels about the matter.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in DEAR FIREFOX:
and it silently (with no way to alter this behaviour) updates itself in the background
Nothing can update itself in Linux.
Focal Fossa still has the deb version of Firefox, which means it gets updated by apt. And that in turn means that if you go into aptitude and put the package on hold, unattended-upgrades (the package that does the nightly update) shouldn't touch it, and you can unhold, upgrade and re-hold it in aptitude on your own schedule. If you have access to root to run aptitude, of course. I think there's also a way to exclude specific packages from unattended-upgrades, but I'd have to dig through the manuals for that.
In Jammy Jellyfish Ubuntu switched, like they did with Chromium earlier, to installing the snap version instead, and that is the official upstream (Mozilla) build. That updates itself, and putting that on hold
is harder(no, just different so I had to look it up), but when it's running it won't upgrade but instead nag you with a toast that you need to turn it off so it can upgrade.Which is a
of it's own; it is there to address your first two points, but the feature is incomplete as it does not have any hook in start or shutdown of the application to trigger the upgrade, so just restarting it won't work; you have to shut it down, trigger the upgrade manually and start it again.… I haven't tried using my own certificates with Firefox recently, but I thought the official process—drop
.crt(PEM-encoded) files in/usr/local/share/ca-certificatesand runupdate-ca-certificates—works fine with both the deb and the snap version, so I suspect your wibbly Puppet script is doing something wrong there.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in DEAR FIREFOX:
yes, I'm aware that I cannot count
Error: 406 Spanish Inquisition Joke Required
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@Bulb said in DEAR FIREFOX:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in DEAR FIREFOX:
and it silently (with no way to alter this behaviour) updates itself in the background
Nothing can update itself in Linux.
actually, thanks to how snaps work and canonical's pushing of them like they have a hardon the size of a blue whale for them (the whole whale, not just the whale's hardon) firefox on ubuntu and derivitives, can and will and you have to cripple your whole OS to rip out snaps, blacklist the pacakges and install a sketchy PPA to get the packages back as debs.
snaps auto update, and that's why i no longer use or recommend ubuntu and derivatives. it's one thing to keep the system up to date, i like that. no problem there, but snaps do it in the most assbackwards way that's guaranteed to interrupt your workflow. they're objectively worse than windows updates were back when microsoft (rightly) made them required but (wrongly) hadn't actually worked out how to make them non intrusive to the user.
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@accalia It's still snap updating the packages, not the packages updating themselves like they do on Windows.
Yes, snaps get updated automatically, and so do deb packages via the unattended-upgrades package. And the complaint @Steve_The_Cynic had above would not apply to snaps, because snaps don't upgrade when the application is running, they nag you with a notification instead. And both can be set to hold.
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@Bulb said in DEAR FIREFOX:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in DEAR FIREFOX:
and it silently (with no way to alter this behaviour) updates itself in the background
Nothing can update itself in Linux.
Nothing can update itself on windows. While
program.exeis running, it is immutable, and thus cannot be modified, moved, or deleted. It needs to exit before some helper process can replace the binary.On linux, however, it is perfectly possible for
programto downloadprogram.new, deleteprogram(or move it toprogram.old), renameprogram.newtoprogram, then exec into the new binary without any help from any other process.
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@Bulb said in DEAR FIREFOX:
… I haven't tried using my own certificates with Firefox recently, but I thought the official process—drop .crt (PEM-encoded) files in /usr/local/share/ca-certificates and run update-ca-certificates—works fine with both the deb and the snap version, so I suspect your wibbly Puppet script is doing something wrong there.
I don't do that, but AFAIK there's still no way to use a smart card with a snap browser since they're not linking to those libs and the previous method of pointing to the lib on your drive doesn't work because snap stuff isn't allowed to see that.
(Though I haven't looked into this again for several months or a year so maybe they've fixed that.)
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@Bulb said in DEAR FIREFOX:
And that in turn means that if you go into aptitude and put the package on hold, unattended-upgrades (the package that does the nightly update) shouldn't touch it, and you can unhold, upgrade and re-hold it in aptitude on your own schedule.
This is such an innovative concept. I wonder if, sometimes in the not too distant future, the small company that is Microsoft, could implement such a really complex feature
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@TimeBandit it’s too big a scale for such a tiny outfit to QA.
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@Arantor but they have the biggest QA department of the universe
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@TimeBandit said in DEAR FIREFOX:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in DEAR FIREFOX:
it's Canonical's version
:theres-your-problem.png:
True, but I'd like to have a choice about the matter. Life was so much better before the IT department got involved in specifying what developers should do with their PCs.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in DEAR FIREFOX:
Life was so much better before the IT department
got involved in specifying what developers should do with their PCs.Or
Life was so much better before
the IT department got involved in specifying what developers should do with theirPCs.Or
Life was so much better before
the IT department got involved in specifying whatdevelopersshould do with their PCs.
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