Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match

zekka

Cage Match is a room.
  @levicki is a person. @levicki is in Cage Match.
  @Gąska is a person. @Gąska is in Cage Match.

In one corner: a largely-ignored database query language with like two major implementations, Datalog! Known for its brief surge of popularity in compilers technology when it was exposed as the query language of BDDBDDB!

In the other corner: the natural successor of the Z-machine and its cryptic dialect of PASCAL, Inform 7! Armed with an unexpectedly giant ecosystem of confusingly-named tools. No one knows why text adventures need their own VM and no one knows why any VM needs a binarysearch instruction.

Somewhere in a corner no one cares about: my giant effortpost about how great Inform 7 is: https://what.thedailywtf.com/post/1513613.

Reply in the form of a query (but not a recursive one -- that won't compile in alarmingly many implementations of Datalog), a text adventure (but don't allocate memory -- that's an Inform 6 feature and you'll have to get into compiler intrinsics to do it), or natural language. (and not a mere natural language facade over someone's shady formal language)

@levicki @Gąska (I really enjoyed this convo and thought I would pull it out of the Microsoft Bosque thread since it's a completely separate topic.)

Unperverted Vixen

@zekka said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

No one knows why text adventures need their own VM and no one knows why any VM needs a binarysearch instruction.

SELECT * FROM ZMachineReasons

Feature	Reason
VM	portability
binary search	dictionary lookups

zekka

@Unperverted-Vixen (correct! the z-machine is actually one of the first widely-distributed portable VMs. here is Andrew Plotkin's post about his reasons for designing a new one: https://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/glulx-spec_0.html . if you dig thru the documentation, you'll see the rationales for some of the particularly crazy instructions built into glulx. i'm being facetious and dismissing it, but i'm actually very very on the inform guys' side)

Gąska

QUERY> _(x) <- point_of_the_topic[this_topic[]] = x.

zekka

Looks like most people continued replying in the Bosque topic. I guess, click my link if you want to skip to the part where a second Inform fan -- me -- jumps in. Or go to the first page if you want to see everyone brawl!

I will totally still respond to dudes here, but it feels a little redundant.

sloosecannon

@zekka so has this become a popcorn thread for the main one?

Tsaukpaetra

@zekka Welcome to the forums!

zekka

@sloosecannon that is an excellent take! yes, please!

zekka

@Tsaukpaetra hello!!! thank you! i am very very new, as mentioned in the other topic.

i am also a relative programming novice, with two to five years of professional experience depending on how you count internships.

you are all very cool!!!!

Tsaukpaetra

@zekka said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

i am very very new

May your innocence be maintained, or the destruction thereof be amazingly glorious.

HardwareGeek

@Tsaukpaetra Two to five years is more than enough to have had one's innocence thoroughly destroyed already.

Tsaukpaetra

@HardwareGeek said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Tsaukpaetra Two to five years is more than enough to have had one's innocence thoroughly destroyed already.

You'd be surprised.... Or maybe not.

Kian

So, how many porn games are there written for inform 7, and how many porn games are written in Datalog? I'd look it up, but I don't want either Inform 7 or Datalog in my search history.

Tsaukpaetra

@Kian said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

I'd look it up, but I don't want either Inform 7 or Datalog in my search history.

Incognirivate Browsing FTW?

Kian

@Tsaukpaetra you don't really believe in Incognito Mode, do you? All that Incognito does is tell them what things you are embarrassed about.

Tsaukpaetra

@Kian said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

you don't really believe in Incognito Mode, do you?

Nah. Google already knows my kinks. Or, at least, they know what kinks User 114795436138223214615 has.

Carnage

@zekka said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Tsaukpaetra hello!!! thank you! i am very very new, as mentioned in the other topic.

i am also a relative programming novice, with two to five years of professional experience depending on how you count internships.

you are all very cool!!!!

You are very self deprecating, and for this forum that's And around where I fondle the bits, 2-5 years of experience is regarded as senior dev. Not that I mind, it's refreshing.

zekka

@Carnage most of my coworkers have had more experience than me for most of my career! i can't think of a job where that wasn't true.

Carnage

@zekka said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Carnage most of my coworkers have had more experience than me for most of my career! i can't think of a job where that wasn't true.

At one gig an unknown amount of years ago, I was the least experienced developer with 10 years of work in the field. And not only was everyone experienced, they were also competent! Best job I ever had.

kazitor

@zekka said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

I […] thought I would pull it out of the […] thread since it's a completely separate topic.

pie_flavor

@Tsaukpaetra Just on the publicly indexable parts of this site someone can deduce your full name, age, phone number, and address. I'm pretty sure Google knows exactly who you are.

Tsaukpaetra

@pie_flavor said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Just ~~on the publicly indexable parts of this site~~Googling your username someone can deduce your full name, age, phone number, and address. I'm pretty sure Google knows exactly who you are.

FTFY. You can also easily find my master password that way too, coincidentally.

topspin

@pie_flavor said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Tsaukpaetra Just on the publicly indexable parts of this site someone can deduce your full name, age, phone number, and address. I'm pretty sure Google knows exactly who you are.

I only know his last name, approximate age, and state (although I know where he's posted his location). If that means I don't spend enough time here, I don't want to know what adventures I'd fill the "⏱ You know you've been spending too much time on TDWTF when..." thread with otherwise.

@Tsaukpaetra said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

You can also easily find my master password that way too, coincidentally.

Is it "tsaukpaetra"?

topspin

@zekka said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

I really enjoyed this convo

You seem to have a peculiar sense of entertainment. May I interest you in some DF posts?

Welcome, btw.

Tsaukpaetra

@topspin said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Tsaukpaetra said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

You can also easily find my master password that way too, coincidentally.

Is it "tsaukpaetra"?

No, that's the password for the root user--- I mean, no, that's just my name, guess again?

Luhmann

@topspin said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

state

Always bet on 'Horny'

dkf

@Luhmann said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Always bet on 'Horny'

Or “California”, even if just because it annoys the rest of the US no end.

Tsaukpaetra

@dkf said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Luhmann said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Always bet on 'Horny'

Or “California”, even if just because it annoys the rest of the US no end.

Eh, that's only five hours drive away, give or take.

anonymous234

I'll just leave these here

The Lost Kingdom Brainfuck Edition

GitHub - ChrisRx/dungeonfs: A FUSE filesystem and dungeon crawling adventure game engine

A FUSE filesystem and dungeon crawling adventure game engine - ChrisRx/dungeonfs

boomzilla

@Kian said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Tsaukpaetra you don't really believe in Incognito Mode, do you? All that Incognito does is tell them what things you are embarrassed about.

It used to be a way to get around cookie based article limits on news sites.

HardwareGeek

@Carnage said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

they were also competent

Pictures, or it didn't happen.

dcon

@boomzilla said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Kian said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Tsaukpaetra you don't really believe in Incognito Mode, do you? All that Incognito does is tell them what things you are embarrassed about.

It used to be a way to get around cookie based article limits on news sites.

I just delete those cookies. Poof! Limits restored!

Gąska

@levicki said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Of the top of my head

@levicki said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Furry

@levicki said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Futa

I really try not to be judgemental, but you're not making that easy.

Off, not of.

error

@anonymous234 said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

GitHub - ChrisRx/dungeonfs: A FUSE filesystem and dungeon crawling adventure game engine

A FUSE filesystem and dungeon crawling adventure game engine - ChrisRx/dungeonfs

This amuses me.

anonymous234

@Gąska

I really try not to be judgemental, but you're not making that easy.

I'm judging you for not knowing futa RPGs.

error

@levicki Someday I'll have to start a Lounge thread about my non-coding hobbies...

Tsaukpaetra

@error said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@levicki Someday I'll have to start a Lounge thread about my non-coding hobbies...

The more you dig...

admiral_p

What the fuck is Anthro? SFL explanation please.

pie_flavor

@admiral_p Anthropomorphic animals. It's what furries call furry stuff when they want to sound normal.

admiral_p

@pie_flavor so basically (NSFW but hilarious) this.

pie_flavor

@admiral_p no, not particularly.

Tsaukpaetra

@admiral_p said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

What the fuck is Anthro? SFL explanation please.

Disney's Robin Hood.

admiral_p

@pie_flavor I think I don't really want to know then.

djls45

@Tsaukpaetra said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@pie_flavor said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Just ~~on the publicly indexable parts of this site~~Googling your username someone can deduce your full name, age, phone number, and address. I'm pretty sure Google knows exactly who you are.

FTFY. You can also easily find my master password that way too, coincidentally.

hunter2 ?

Tsaukpaetra

@djls45 said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@Tsaukpaetra said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@pie_flavor said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Just ~~on the publicly indexable parts of this site~~Googling your username someone can deduce your full name, age, phone number, and address. I'm pretty sure Google knows exactly who you are.

FTFY. You can also easily find my master password that way too, coincidentally.

hunter2 ?

No, google. It's funny, because the password hint becomes Google it!

djls45

@Tsaukpaetra said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

@dkf said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Or “California”, even if just because it annoys the rest of the US no end.

Eh, that's only five hours drive away, give or take.

Seattle?
...
Hang on, that's Blakeyrat.

Oh, wait, there's another state in between, isn't there? So, Portland?
...

No, I remember now. You're in the other direction from California.

Gąska

@djls45 said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

No, I remember now. You're in the other direction from California.

I'm pretty sure he's not Mexican.

admiral_p

@levicki I don't particularly want to get familiar with the subject.

Atazhaia

@levicki Scalies (dragons, lizards, snakes, dinos, etc.) is a pretty big part of furry fandom too. Although there are plenty furry dragons too, ofc.

Gąska

@Atazhaia said in Inform vs Datalog: the ultimate cage match:

Although there are plenty furry dragons too, ofc.

Better than feathery dinosaurs, I guess