We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!
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@pie_flavor said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@TimeBandit In fact Windows
Storeapps do not require reboots to update.FTFL15YOS
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@Gąska Updates become an issue when the app might have installed a shared component as there's no way to find out if anything shared is actually in use, and Windows isn't too keen on components (well, DLLs or executables) getting updated while actually in use.
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@Medinoc said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Ordinateur
Gets me every time.
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@Gąska You know, I didn't even notice.
Usually I don't go copy-pasting key paths, and when I type one I usually start directly with the shortened name of the root key (e.g. HKCU) but this time I did copy-and-paste, and lo and behold the localized name.
I don't understand why they even decided to start the address bar with the localized name of "My Computer", rather than the root key names (shortened or not).
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@dkf said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Gąska Updates become an issue when the app might have installed a shared component as there's no way to find out if anything shared is actually in use, and Windows isn't too keen on components (well, DLLs or executables) getting updated while actually in use.
Just ask and kill.
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@Tsaukpaetra Except there's no "asking" the processes those handles belong to. You don't think closing handles out from under processes may eventually cause problems? Most programmers don't write that defensively (if they even can).
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@heterodox said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Tsaukpaetra Except there's no "asking" the processes those handles belong to. You don't think closing handles out from under processes may eventually cause problems?
Huh? Find the handles. Find the processes that hold them. Give user that list in a friendly and non-threatening manner. Kill.
Filed under: Not all steps in order
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@Tsaukpaetra said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Huh? Find the handles. Find the processes that hold them. Give user that list in a friendly and non-threatening manner. Kill.
It's more the "kill" part that has problems. There's no problem with displaying the list of processes if you really want to trawl through all processes' memory space to find them. Then prompt for restart. It's safer. (Do you think most users can make an informed decision as to what processes are safe to kill?)
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@heterodox said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Tsaukpaetra said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Huh? Find the handles. Find the processes that hold them. Give user that list in a friendly and non-threatening manner. Kill.
It's more the "kill" part that has problems. There's no problem with displaying the list of processes if you really want to trawl through all processes' memory space to find them. Then prompt for restart. It's safer.
Point is it's not an insurmountable problem, just that few seem to implement it.
I've seen this check infrequently, but it exists. For example:
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@Tsaukpaetra No, it's not insurmountable-- just explaining why the "default" way of handling it is what it is. (Habitual by now, as I explain these things to people at work.)
The state of things may become better now that there are APIs AIUI to register your application name and usage of a file so e.g. File Explorer will say what application has it open (not that 90% of apps probably use those). It used to be impossible to tell without poking inside other processes' internal structures.
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@heterodox said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
It used to be impossible to tell without poking inside other processes' internal structures.
And for many things I bet it still is, which is why the needed functions are (presumably) only available while running elevated. But in theory the updater would either be running elevated (if it used or intended to update said shared files) or just not need to care because it's silo'd and knows it should be the only thing using its files.
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@dcon said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@TimeBandit said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Medinoc said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
I discovered they'd been installed despite me disabling "suggestions in Start Menu"
I love how there is a setting to disable it, but Windows ignore it anyway
'Suggestions in start menu' has nothing to do with installing apps. It has everything to do with advertising.
So does installing Candy Crush (and other shovelware) without your consent.
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@dcon said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@LaoC said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Zecc said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@LaoC said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
peice
Remember: "I before E, except when not".
What a wierd rule
Yeah, sloppy correction. I noticed I'd missed the e but not that my correction was in the wrong place.The full rule that I learned is, "I before E, except after C, whenever the sound is 'ee'."
So in that picture, the exceptions are (with a more phonetic-ish spelling):
- Keeth
- caffeenated
- weerd.
All the other examples are excluded, mostly by the "whenever the sound is 'ee'" part:
- forrin
- nay-bor
- receives ("except after C")
- counterfit
- bayge
- slays
- fy-stee
- wayt-lifters
That said, there's a big ol' bundle of exceptions, and the bundle depends on which country you're in.
"Leisure" is pronounced with an "ee" sound in the US (so it's an exception), and a short-flat-"e" sound (much like the "e" in "bet") in the UK (so it isn't even covered by the rule).
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@dkf said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
You can tell when a major FOSS project is mostly shit. Their issue tracker auto-closes bugs on the grounds that they can't be bothered to ever work out if they've really fixed anything. (I guess the same might be true for closed source projects.)
Bonus if they ban you for it!
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@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Of course that is not enough, you need all this:
REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "ContentDeliveryAllowed" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "OemPreInstalledAppsEnabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "PreInstalledAppsEnabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "PreInstalledAppsEverEnabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "SilentInstalledAppsEnabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "SoftLandingEnabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "SubscribedContent-338388Enabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "SubscribedContent-338389Enabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "SubscribedContent-353696Enabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ContentDeliveryManager" /v "SystemPaneSuggestionsEnabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f
Again, Windows show how superior it is with a nice GUI for everything
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You forgot: .
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
caffeenated
Huh, I usually say it with a short-i...
@Steve_The_Cynic said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
weerd
"We-irrd"
@Steve_The_Cynic said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Leisure
I must not be in the US, I say "lay-sure"
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@Tsaukpaetra said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
"We-irrd"
That you pronounce weird weirdly is not weird.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
caffeenated
Huh, I usually say it with a short-i...
In which case it wouldn't be covered by the rule... Or it would be in that big ol' bundle of country-specific exceptions...
@Steve_The_Cynic said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Leisure
I must not be in the US, I say "lay-sure"
as you say. When I lived over there, I almost always heard it as "lee-zhure" (where the "zh" follows the Chinese convention for the "soft J" that isn't otherwise spellable in English conventions). The exceptions were my parents, also British (duh).
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@_P_ said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
P-word
Paid? Proprietary?
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@sockpuppet7 said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@_P_ said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
P-word
Paid? Proprietary?
Plastic.
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@levicki I hoped for something interesting to read. Instead got generic, infantile rant about how composite words mean a different thing than their components.
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@Gąska I find that the sort of people who tend to whinge about English are native speakers who've never tried to learn another language.
"Look at all this unphonetic spelling! The tenses!!11!!"
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@kazitor to be fair, the "unphoneticness" of English is really one of its class. All other languages I'm aware of have it much less fucked up. Maybe except French. Especially the slavic languages have nearly 1:1 correspondence of letters to phones.
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@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@kazitor to be fair, the "unphoneticness" of English is really one of its class. All other languages I'm aware of have it much less fucked up. Maybe except French. Especially the slavic languages have nearly 1:1 correspondence of letters to phones.
The character
o
in Russian. Game, set, match.
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@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
All other languages I'm aware of have it much less fucked up.
English is pretty well broken because of the habits of stealing words from elsewhere, breaking the spelling on the way. Occasionally we have some academic decide to try to “fix” things: this has actively made things worse as they've a habit of “correcting” the spelling in a way that doesn't match either the orthography of the source or the common basic patterns used in English.
But that's not to say that other languages are perfect. For example, Swedish has an odd relationship with the “sh” sound, having more ways to write it than anyone thinks is sensible.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@kazitor to be fair, the "unphoneticness" of English is really one of its class. All other languages I'm aware of have it much less fucked up. Maybe except French. Especially the slavic languages have nearly 1:1 correspondence of letters to phones.
The character
o
in Russian. Game, set, match.Compare to the five ways in which you can say English "e".
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@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Benjamin-Hall said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@kazitor to be fair, the "unphoneticness" of English is really one of its class. All other languages I'm aware of have it much less fucked up. Maybe except French. Especially the slavic languages have nearly 1:1 correspondence of letters to phones.
The character
o
in Russian. Game, set, match.Compare to the five ways in which you can say English "e".
I'm not trying to excuse English here. English is nothing like a pure, straightforward language (in any way). I'm mainly (trollingly) going against the point about slavic languages. Consider the fact that Russian has a couple letters (
e
andё
) which are written the same way in most text, but are radically different both in sound and in the effect on things like stress (ё
always having the stress when it appears).
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@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@kazitor to be fair, the "unphoneticness" of English is really one of its class.
I don't have the inclination to read about Mandarin and other tonal languages right now, so I won't comment on that.
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@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@levicki I hoped for something interesting to read. Instead got generic, infantile rant about how composite words mean a different thing than their components.
I also hoped that people won't twist words to make them mean what they don't mean such as:
- Standard meant to define behavior (which then leaves undefined behavior)
- Digital Rights Management taking away your rights
- Ministry of Peace waging war
- Marketing language abuse
- etc... etc... etc...
Agreed. But that's very different from blue blackberries or manning a station.
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@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Agreed. But that's very different from blue blackberries or manning a station.
"Blackberries are red when they're green".
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Why do noses run, but feet smell?
Sounds like a question for military intelligence.
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@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Most Slavic languages have pitch accents for vowels
Я написал на компьютере.
I wrote/pissed on a computer.
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@_P_ said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
GPL which also limits the users with what they can do with the product
The GPL has no end-user-facing legal language.
It only affects developers, not users.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Most Slavic languages have pitch accents for vowels
Я написал на компьютере.
I wrote/pissed on a computer.I hate how some fonts change т into m when in italics. I know that's how people write by hand, but come on. I expect formatting to be a simple uniform geometric transformation, not change entire glyphs.
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@ben_lubar said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@_P_ said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
GPL which also limits the users with what they can do with the product
The GPL has no end-user-facing legal language.
It only affects developers, not users.
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@dkf said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
For example, Swedish has an odd relationship with the “sh” sound, having more ways to write it than anyone thinks is sensible.
- sh
- sj
- sch
- stj
- sk
- skj
- ch
- k
I dunno what you're talking about...
(I probably missed a few. Also, not all occurences of those letter combinations are pronounced "sh" in every word.)
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@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Serbian language has exact 1:1 relationship. Our language motto is "write as you speak, read as it is written”.
Serbian has no dialects, then?
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@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
I hate how some fonts change т into m when in italics. I know that's how people write by hand, but come on. I expect formatting to be a simple uniform geometric transformation, not change entire glyphs.
Now that you mention it...
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@Gurth said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Serbian language has exact 1:1 relationship. Our language motto is "write as you speak, read as it is written”.
Serbian has no dialects, then?
Each dialect has its own exact 1:1 relationship.
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@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Applied-Mediocrity said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Most Slavic languages have pitch accents for vowels
Я написал на компьютере.
I wrote/pissed on a computer.I hate how some fonts change т into m when in italics. I know that's how people write by hand, but come on. I expect formatting to be a simple uniform geometric transformation, not change entire glyphs.
You expect wrong. Each of regular, italics, bold, and bold italics is a wholly separate font with independent glyphs. Necessary since spacing between letters and other details need to change, including styling of the letter. Consider the change in latin alphabets between a and a. In case you have a different font:
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@Kian said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Applied-Mediocrity said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Most Slavic languages have pitch accents for vowels
Я написал на компьютере.
I wrote/pissed on a computer.I hate how some fonts change т into m when in italics. I know that's how people write by hand, but come on. I expect formatting to be a simple uniform geometric transformation, not change entire glyphs.
You expect wrong. Each of regular, italics, bold, and bold italics is a wholly separate font with independent glyphs.
IMPLEMENTATION DETAIL.
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@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Gurth said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@levicki said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Serbian language has exact 1:1 relationship. Our language motto is "write as you speak, read as it is written”.
Serbian has no dialects, then?
It has in the sense that some people from different parts of Serbia speak with different accents
“Accents” as in changing the pronunciation of certain sounds that would require them to be transcribed using different letters than standard Serbian?
and don't follow proper grammar.
Proper grammar as defined by the official rules for Serbo–Croatian, or proper grammar for the dialect that these people use?
I don’t speak the language (for some reason, the couple of Serbs I used to know about a decade ago only spoke Dutch to me) but based on my experience with Dutch dialects vs. standard language, “write what you say” will very quickly cause a great divergence in spelling. For standard Dutch, vowel sounds correspond pretty well with the letters used to write them; for the dialects of my area, you’d need a few more symbols or (the usual solution) create somewhat convoluted combinations of vowels and/or accents. Dutch orthography doesn’t do vowel length well, for one, probably because the dialects that standard Dutch is mainly based on, don’t do long vowels much.
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@Gąska I did not say they are stored in different font files (which would be an implementation detail). I said they are two separate fonts. Just like you wouldn't say "just space the letters equally to turn Arial into a monospaced font", but instead need to redesign the glyphs and create a new font, you can't just skew the glyphs to create an italiced font. Some letters would look wrong if you just skewed them and left everything else the same. Arial and Arial Italic are two different fonts that need to be properly designed, even if one is derived from the other.
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@Kian said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
Arial and Arial Italic are two different fonts that need to be properly designed, even if one is derived from the other.
Blue is the capital A from Arial Regular skewed by 10 degrees, black is the A from Arial Italic.
Arial is not a great example, though, because in typefaces like Arial, the italic is usually pretty much an oblique anyway, with very few features that really make it an actual italic.
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Another detail relevant to this discussion is that "italic" does not mean "slanted", but effectively equates to "like handwriting". So it is completely unsurprising that an italic font would render a character closer to its handwritten variant. a vs a is the exact comparison I would have used.
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@Kian said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
@Gąska I did not say they are stored in different font files (which would be an implementation detail).
Neither did I.
I said they are two separate fonts.
They're not separate fonts. They are one font. They have the same name - and name uniquely identifies font. They're just different styles of the same font. That they're represented with separate glyph sets is just an implementation detail.
Just like you wouldn't say "just space the letters equally to turn Arial into a monospaced font", but instead need to redesign the glyphs and create a new font
Bad example. Monospace isn't style, it's property of a font. Arial is not monospace, will never be monospace, and there's nothing you can do to make it monospace. While making it italics is just a matter of setting a style.
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@Gąska said in We need to be more user hostile to help them embrace freedom!:
They're not separate fonts. They are one font.
Oh this is too easy to . They are 100% different fonts. Together they form part of a typeface/font family.
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@kazitor accepted. Still, it's fucking annoying that T gets changed to m by formatting.