Right to repair sold to the highest bidder
-
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
They're actually complaining that they don't have the common sense to turn [the device] on before closing it up.
Sometimes you just have to use the tool between your ears.
His point here would make more sense (well it's a rant, so sense is optional...) if he didn't start the video by comparing Apple to McDonalds and how their greatness is in making their processes so robust that a stoned 16 yo high school dropout can consistently churn out the same level of quality. If Apple's kit is designed so that even "morons" (his word, literally) can use it, then complaining that someone is making what he thinks is moronic is... well, moronic.
That said, I agree with him that the whole thing about the repair kit is indeed missing the point. Though IMO it's only an issue if there aren't any articles talking about the rest. Talking about the repair kit is maybe not the biggest of big picture items, but it's a valid topic by itself.
-
@remi said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
They're actually complaining that they don't have the common sense to turn [the device] on before closing it up.
Sometimes you just have to use the tool between your ears.
His point here would make more sense (well it's a rant, so sense is optional...) if he didn't start the video by comparing Apple to McDonalds and how their greatness is in making their processes so robust that a stoned 16 yo high school dropout can consistently churn out the same level of quality. If Apple's kit is designed so that even "morons" (his word, literally) can use it, then complaining that someone is making what he thinks is moronic is... well, moronic.
Yeah, I thought it was kind of funny where he makes the point about stoned 16 year olds and then says how silly it is to use a torque wrench to properly tighten the screws.
That said, I agree with him that the whole thing about the repair kit is indeed missing the point. Though IMO it's only an issue if there aren't any articles talking about the rest. Talking about the repair kit is maybe not the biggest of big picture items, but it's a valid topic by itself.
Well, it's the internet, so click baity articles about buying (or renting) industrial tooling are of course going to dominate and mostly drown out other sensible points. I'd say nuking from orbit is the only way to fix it, but the internet was specifically built to be resistant to that sort of thing, so...
-
@boomzilla said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
and then says how silly it is to use a torque wrench to properly tighten the screws.
He assumed a tech journalist for an online publication would be more careful and adept with his own, singular phone than a stoned 16 year old grinding through the motions on other people's shit. That assumption is clearly faulty though.
-
@TwelveBaud Yep. I, for one, would expect journalists to be among the least mechanically literate.
-
@boomzilla said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
I, for one, would expect journalists to be among the least
mechanicallyliterate.
, sadly.
-
@Rhywden said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
I experienced the opposite with my Bosch dish washer - one part in the door had bent so it didn't close properly anymore. Went to their website, selected my model and they had several blueprints for the machine, detailing which part went where. Clicked on the faulty part and was led to the article page where I then could order this piece.
I am astonished that such a sensible thing actually exists.
-
@jinpa said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
I am astonished that such a sensible thing actually exists.
My twenty year old Samsung front loading washing machine stopped spinning a few weeks ago. Not only could I get the part from Samsung, Amazon had a direct-from-China replacement part ready to ship for half the price (about ninety bucks). It even came with the bolts that usually break on disassembly.
The part was the big spider looking thing that the drum is bolted to, so installation required some serious effort.... but there were a ton of YouTube videos demonstrating the process. It was enough effort that any professional repair shop would have told me to buy a new one because it would probably be a $150 trip fee and $300 of labor on top of the $180 factory part.
-
-
@jinpa said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Rhywden said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
I experienced the opposite with my Bosch dish washer - one part in the door had bent so it didn't close properly anymore. Went to their website, selected my model and they had several blueprints for the machine, detailing which part went where. Clicked on the faulty part and was led to the article page where I then could order this piece.
I am astonished that such a sensible thing actually exists.
Sears had/has a thing like this too - I helped build it.
-
@The_Quiet_One can't wait for all the court cases. There's a non-zero chance they'll accidentally make video game console piracy legal.
-
Checks thread title...
@Gustav said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@The_Quiet_One can't wait for all the court cases. There's a non-zero chance they'll accidentally make
video game console piracy legalcar repairs illegal.
-
@topspin Also yes.
-
-
@Dragoon In other news several air exclusion zones this Sunday reported sightings of unruly porcine mammals at higher than expected altitude.
-
@Dragoon I'll believe it when I see it.
-
@Deadfast said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Dragoon I'll believe it when I see it.
As predicted:
https://youtu.be/7-RgOUT3zeoThe main point of the video is that a similar memorandum of understanding was already made by John Deere in California in 2018 and changed absolutely nothing, because John Deere just hides behind intellectual property, environmental concerns and safety. It's just a PR stunt.
Also:
The only thing worse than being pissed on is when everybody else thinks it's just raining.
- Louis Rossmann
-
-
@Dragoon said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE9X4Vx3xb0
Until they antitrust themselves. Probably.
-
Well, since it worked so well in tractors...
Polish Hackers Repaired Trains the Manufacturer Artificially Bricked. Now The Train Company Is Threatening Them
After breaking trains simply because an independent repair shop had worked on them, NEWAG is now demanding that trains fixed by hackers be removed from service.
-
Lemme guess without reading the article: the manufacturer claims this is for "safety reasons", right?
EDIT: opened the article, did a Ctrl-F for "safety". Bingo!
-
-
Note I didn't say I read it.
-
EU right to repair: Sellers will be liable for a year after products are fixed
Rules also ban "contractual, hardware or software related barriers to repair."
Clearly this will solve all the world's e-waste problems and bring about Nirvana.
-
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Clearly this will solve all the world's e-waste problems and bring about Nirvana.
Clearly not, but it's not every day we get a law that's actually customer-friendly, so this is worth celebrating.
-
@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Clearly this will solve all the world's e-waste problems and bring about Nirvana.
Clearly not, but it's not every day we get a law that's actually customer-friendly, so this is worth celebrating.
Yes, I too find it extremely consumer friendly to have all of my electronic devices cost more because now I’m forced to purchase the extended warranty. And it’ll make repairs even more
scandalously expensive because companies will have to make the cost reflect the fact that you’re being an idiot to demand a repair on equipment that is nearly functionally obsoleteyou just reupped your extended warranty.
-
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
And it’ll make repairs even more
scandalously expensive That's why it includes a part preventing manufacturers from putting barriers to repair. So when, say, tells you "sure, we can repair that broken button on your iWhatever, that'll be €799.95", you'll be able to reply "guess I'll just have someone else repair it for 1/20th the price, then". Like it used to be before they started serializing parts to prevent people from having a choice.
-
@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
And it’ll make repairs even more
scandalously expensive That's why it includes a part preventing manufacturers from putting barriers to repair. So when, say, tells you "sure, we can repair that broken button on your iWhatever, that'll be €799.95", you'll be able to reply "guess I'll just have someone else repair it for 1/20th the price, then". Like it used to be before they started serializing parts to prevent people from having a choice.
So is that going to rely on pixie dust, or is that going to result in Apple charging you up front for the fact that you can extend your warranty by getting the lowest cost repair shop to repair your device 3 days before the warranty expires, in perpetuity? (Or, to be fair, Ars may have Arsed up the phrasing on this and it's only one extension or the 3rd party repair shop has to provide the extra 12 months warranty... it's Ars, so can't rule that out, but it's way more fun to take shots at legislation by pixie dust).
-
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
it's way more fun to take shots at legislation by pixie dust
Taking shots at Arse is fun, too.
-
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
So is that going to rely on pixie dust, or is that going to result in Apple charging you up front for the fact that you can extend your warranty by getting the lowest cost repair shop to repair your device 3 days before the warranty expires, in perpetuity?
Even the law mandated that (that's very unlikely), Apple prices its stuff based on what the market will bear, not on what it costs them, anyways. Sure, they'll claim it's the reason why the next iPhone is even more expensive, but it's an excuse that's just as good as any other.
-
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Clearly this will solve all the world's e-waste problems and bring about Nirvana.
Clearly not, but it's not every day we get a law that's actually customer-friendly, so this is worth celebrating.
Yes, I too find it extremely consumer friendly to have all of my electronic devices cost more because now I’m forced to purchase the extended warranty.
Not to forget that they will make you pay for the extended profit margin they had before by getting customers to just buy a new device.
I.e. *checks notes* youAnd it’ll make repairs even more
scandalously expensive because companies will have to make the cost reflect the fact that you’re being an idiot to demand a repair on equipment that is nearly functionally obsoleteyou just reupped your extended warranty.I'd love to see that argument made towards you when it's about a car.
"Nah, you know, it's an ICE, that's pretty much obsolete now … I know you can have a new injector pump put in by your garage but so sorry, it doesn't have the right key in firmware so it won't talk to the motor controller. Yeah, it's exactly the same part because of course we all source from the same Chinese supplier, but still, safety! So important. Imagine what could happen, like you driving that thing another five years. Why don't you buy one of our new BEVs we have on sale now?"I don't know about you but even for electrical devices I don't have that many that would quickly become obsolete. What my kitchen equipment has over 1950s tech is a few better plastics. Vacuum cleaners had one technological advance in the last 120 years or so when they went bagless. My washing machine is a bit more electronic than the one 25 years ago but that could probably have been a software update, it doesn't seem to have any new sensors. Same for dishwashers, if I had one. Fridges just grew some better insulation over the years. Hair dryers (
but 
needswants it), same shit for 100 years. Stereos, I have some fairly modern 5yo thing but what I use of it could have been made in the 1960s.
It's computers and phones where that holds, basically. Even my network equipment is way older than any of those warranties. 802.11n is 15 years old now and it's still good enough for a several HD streams, usually even 4k. Most stuff gets "obsolete" not because it won't do any more because you're supposed to buy more.
-
@LaoC said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
My washing machine is a bit more electronic than the one 25 years ago but that could probably have been a software update, it doesn't seem to have any new sensors.
No, the improvement your washing machine had in the last 25-ish years (maybe slightly more) is switching from an electromechanical programming clock to a microcontroller.
-
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@Zerosquare said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@izzion said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
And it’ll make repairs even more
scandalously expensive That's why it includes a part preventing manufacturers from putting barriers to repair. So when, say, tells you "sure, we can repair that broken button on your iWhatever, that'll be €799.95", you'll be able to reply "guess I'll just have someone else repair it for 1/20th the price, then". Like it used to be before they started serializing parts to prevent people from having a choice.
So is that going to rely on pixie dust, or is that going to result in Apple charging you up front for the fact that you can extend your warranty by getting the lowest cost repair shop to repair your device 3 days before the warranty expires, in perpetuity? (Or, to be fair, Ars may have Arsed up the phrasing on this and it's only one extension or the 3rd party repair shop has to provide the extra 12 months warranty... it's Ars, so can't rule that out, but it's way more fun to take shots at legislation by pixie dust).
From the article, I think the first-party extended warranty only applies to first-party repairs, which the first party is required to offer for reasonable price.
-
@PleegWat said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
@LaoC said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
My washing machine is a bit more electronic than the one 25 years ago but that could probably have been a software update, it doesn't seem to have any new sensors.
No, the improvement your washing machine had in the last 25-ish years (maybe slightly more) is switching from an electromechanical programming clock to a microcontroller.
ICBW
but I don't think I've had anything non-µC this millennium. Even the crappy top loader in Ecuador said "fuzzy logic", whatever that means but it didn't make any of those buzz-click sounds of the electromechanical clock.
-
@LaoC said in Right to repair sold to the highest bidder:
Even the crappy top loader in Ecuador said "fuzzy logic"
It's not a feature, it's a comment on the programming abilities of whoever wrote the code for that microcontroller.
-
Pic. 1 - Fuzzy logic hardware
-
Finally, the killer Right to Repair case:
The FTC and DOJ think McDonald’s ice cream machines should be legal to fix
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24881341/ifixit_mcdonalds_ice_cream_machine.png)
Soft serve machine outages can cost business owners as much as $625 a day — and they can’t legally fix them on their own.
-
@boomzilla this story misses the absolutely critical part of the third party repair that got crushed
McDonald’s Ice Cream Machine Hackers Say They Found the ‘Smoking Gun’ That Killed Their Startup
Kytch, the company that tried to fix McDonald’s broken ice cream machines, has unearthed a 3-year-old email it says proves claims of an alleged plot to undermine their business.
(Amazing jorb, wired home page. Pop up some bullshit about subscription halfway across the screen, I dismiss. Scroll
, get the same popup again. Dismiss, repeat 3 times: well, looks like you’ve already read 3 of our stories for free, it’s subscription time now. Pops up another thing full screen that can’t be dismissed.)
