Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality
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It can't be all downsides. Let's brainstorm some of the possible benefits:
- @ben_lubar's internet is no longer considered "slow" by American standards.
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It's making all the right people angry.
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It will perhaps introduce new classifications for service providers that are not nearly a century old.
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USA will plunge into the dark ages and we in Europe will be on the forefront of technology :P
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@adynathos Unless India recently moved some two thousand miles, that'd be debatable.
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@boomzilla said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
It's making all the right people angry.
"I lost my job, my healthcare, and my house was taken through eminent domain, but some people on the internet are angry about internet things, so I'm happy."
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@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@boomzilla said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
It's making all the right people angry.
"I lost my job, my healthcare, and my house was taken through eminent domain, but some people on the internet are angry about internet things, so I'm happy."
I believe the usual way to phrase it is "haha take that liberals".
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@anonymous234 said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
I believe the usual way to phrase it is "haha take that liberals".
Generally by incredibly ignorant people. Net neutrality has incredibly strong support across the spectrum, including a massive majority among Republican voters. It's not in any way a partisan issue, except to the most hyper-partisan of idiot-logues to which everything is a partisan issue.
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@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@boomzilla said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
It's making all the right people angry.
"I lost my job, my healthcare, and my house was taken through eminent domain, but some people on the internet are angry about internet things, so I'm happy."
Well, Net Neutrality killed my children so it had to go.
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@masonwheeler said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@anonymous234 said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
I believe the usual way to phrase it is "haha take that liberals".
Generally by incredibly ignorant people. Net neutrality has incredibly strong support across the spectrum, including a massive majority among Republican voters. It's not in any way a partisan issue, except to the most hyper-partisan of idiot-logues to which everything is a partisan issue.
People lose credibility when the go all apocalyptic. Like, "I think $this should be illegal, and here's why..." is a pretty reasonable. But you get a lot of "They're destroying the Internet!" And that's how a lot of people are describing this, which is absolutely ludicrous.
So, another benefit (a corollary to my original benefit) will be watching people deal with the cognitive dissonance of watching the Internet not being destroyed.
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@boomzilla said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
So, another benefit (a corollary to my original benefit) will be watching people deal with the cognitive dissonance of watching the Internet not being destroyed.
Making murder legal wouldn't immediately cause every person in the world to die. Making censorship of the internet legal doesn't immediately censor the internet.
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Another benefit - @boomzilla will get proven wrong about the internet being destroyed.
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@boomzilla said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
So, another benefit (a corollary to my original benefit) will be watching people deal with the cognitive dissonance of watching the Internet not being destroyed.
I think that's gonna be the best part. So sick of arguing about it with everyone; no one has a damn clue what any of this actually means.
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@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@boomzilla said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
So, another benefit (a corollary to my original benefit) will be watching people deal with the cognitive dissonance of watching the Internet not being destroyed.
Making murder legal wouldn't immediately cause every person in the world to die. Making censorship of the internet legal doesn't immediately censor the internet.
Thanks for piping up to demonstrate how to lose credibility!
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@erufael said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
no one has a damn clue what any of this actually means
Net Neutrality means that internet service providers can't decide what you do with your internet. Here's an example of what happens when there isn't Net Neutrality in Portugal:
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@erufael said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
Yes. Censoring a website unless the user pays more money is an example of a way to violate Net Neutrality.
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@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@erufael said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
no one has a damn clue what any of this actually means
Net Neutrality means that internet service providers can't decide what you do with your internet. Here's an example of what happens when there isn't Net Neutrality in Portugal:
And then I thank you again for providing a false talking point!
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@ben_lubar Man, just when I was glad I could agree with someone here, you go and post something retarded.
Correct, that's an example. The provided example depicts a telephone provider deciding you get 10GB extra to spend on certain websites. It does not block those sites in any way (because, as part of the EU, they do have net neutrality).
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@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@ben_lubar Man, just when I was glad I could agree with someone here, you go and post something retarded.
Correct, that's an example. The provided example depicts an ISP deciding certain websites don't count towards your data limit. It does not block those sites in any way (because, as part of the EU, they do have net neutrality).Yeah, you try watching YouTube at 128Kbps after your family has used up 500MB of bandwidth in a month.
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@ben_lubar ... wat? That has literally nothing to do with what I said. They are giving you extra. More things. Things you did not already have. Things which are a damned good deal. They are not removing anything from you or increasing your prices.
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@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@ben_lubar Man, just when I was glad I could agree with someone here, you go and post something retarded.
Correct, that's an example. The provided example depicts an ISP deciding certain websites don't count towards your data limit. It does not block those sites in any way (because, as part of the EU, they do have net neutrality).Yeah, you try watching YouTube at 128Kbps after your family has used up 500MB of bandwidth in a month.
Why would you watch youtube on a 500MB / month budget? We have a family cap of 2GB on our mobile plan and we don't stream anything on mobile data.
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@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@ben_lubar ... wat? That has literally nothing to do with what I said.
The photo I posted quite clearly says that bandwidth is limited to 128Kbps after the first 500MB per month unless you pay extra.
They can afford to give you "bonus" speed because they're reducing the base speed.
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@ben_lubar Clearly you don't understand your own image.
This is a telephone provider. These are mobile data plans. This is standard practice. There is a data cap. Once you hit that cap, either you get completely cut off from data, you get full data but get charged overages, or you get greatly reduced speed. With the bonus options, they are giving you more data, but you can only spend this extra data on certain websites.
Again, Portugal does in fact have net neutrality, as part of the EU.
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@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
only [...] on certain websites
Please do explain how this counts as Net Neutrality at all.
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Oh, man, it's already beginning!
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@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
only [...] on certain websites
Please do explain how this counts as Net Neutrality at all.
You'll have to talk to the European "Personal Freedom" Union about that one, I guess.
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@boomzilla If net neutrality wasn't a big deal, why would basically everyone who isn't being paid by an ISP be against its repeal?
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@ben_lubar Because users don't really know what any of this means thanks to the massive hype from Reddit and the media. That one's easy.
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@ben_lubar Because it's extra. It's additional. Your content is not being throttled, it is not being blocked. You can buy the base package and get the entire internet, and you can use the extra packages to have certain websites count towards a different data cap until that cap overflows.
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@ben_lubar Because people are easily cowed morons who will believe anything you tell them as long as you include some sort of explanation.
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@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
Your content is not being throttled
This is sounding a lot like one of those "everything is on sale all the time" stores that marks up their prices so that you can "save" 50% by paying more than you would normally.
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@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@boomzilla If net neutrality wasn't a big deal, why would basically everyone who isn't being paid by an ISP be against its repeal?
Are you saying that they're going to send me a check? Sweeeet.
Also, as I said around here somewhere: "A country full of idiots." Or anyways, a lot of low information people and a lot of conspiratorial people.
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@ben_lubar Reading comprehension on point as always. There cannot even be a de facto throttle, because nothing is being sped up either! Not only do you not understand your own post, but you don't understand mine either - this is getting annoying.
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@boomzilla said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
And then I thank you again for providing a false talking point!
Then why has stuff like this happened before before the FCC told them to stop on grounds of net neutrality?
https://www.cnet.com/news/telco-agrees-to-stop-blocking-voip-calls/
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/eff-tests-agree-ap-comcast-forging-packets-to-interfere
I agree that some of the stuff like the ala carte pick-and-choose your package stuff is over the top sensationalized hyperbole, but ISPs have had a history of doing shady shit like the above.
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@the_quiet_one Wouldn't most if not all of that be covered by FTC regulations?
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@boomzilla said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@boomzilla If net neutrality wasn't a big deal, why would basically everyone who isn't being paid by an ISP be against its repeal?
Are you saying that they're going to send me a check? Sweeeet.
Also, as I said around here somewhere: "A country full of idiots." Or anyways, a lot of low information people and a lot of conspiratorial people.
I assume that means that companies like Netflix, Microsoft, Amazon, and all of these are run by idiots too?
Are you saying that somehow you are the only non-idiot? Some random person on a web forum is smarter than the biggest internet companies in the world?
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@the_quiet_one We cobbled together net neutrality from spare parts by classifying ISPs as telcos. Telcos already had this regulation in place, and nobody's removing it; we're just no longer classifying ISPs as telcos. So links 1, 3, 4, and 5 are invalid.
And link 2 is invalid too. According to it, Comcast wasn't throttling a damned thing. The traffic was transmitted the same as any other, Comcast was just adding the 'I'm done' message to it. So they're already in violation of federal fraud laws.
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I see a lot of arguments from various anti-Net Neutrality people saying that nothing will change as a result of Net Neutrality being repealed.
My question to them: Why would it be so important to repeal Net Neutrality that they had to do it even though nothing would change and 80% of the population of the country were telling them not to do it?
The reason ISPs are classified as Title II in the first place is that the FCC was told by a court that Net Neutrality is only enforceable if they classify ISPs as Title II.
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@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
The reason ISPs are classified as Title II in the first place is that the FCC was told by a court that Net Neutrality is only enforceable if they classify ISPs as Title II.
Which means that ISPs are being classed as telcos.
This is broken and stupid and wrong.
We should write new laws to properly govern the modern world, not shoehorn modern concepts into old unrelated law sets.
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@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
I assume that means that companies like Netflix, Microsoft, Amazon, and all of these are run by idiots too?
No, they're run by crooks. They're the ones taking advantage of the idiots.
If you believe the anti-NNs, that is. I'm skeptical. But that's the narrative, and it's believable.
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@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@ben_lubar said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
The reason ISPs are classified as Title II in the first place is that the FCC was told by a court that Net Neutrality is only enforceable if they classify ISPs as Title II.
Which means that ISPs are being classed as telcos.
This is broken and stupid and wrong.
We should write new laws to properly govern the modern world, not shoehorn modern concepts into old unrelated law sets.Explain to me how a telephone company that provides access to the internet is different from any other company that provides access to the internet.
If there's a difference, you'll have to explain that to me.
If there's not a difference, you were lying when you said "links 1, 3, 4, and 5 are invalid" because you knew they weren't.
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@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
No, they're run by crooks. They're the ones taking advantage of the idiots.
Please tell me you're going to stop supporting these "crook" companies! Think of all the laws they're breaking by lying to their customers!
It's impossible that ISPs could possibly be "crook" companies! Everyone knows that!
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@ben_lubar This is insane. The difference here is that they are not fucking telephone companies.
ALL of the NN rules came from regulation built for, designed around, and applied solely to, telephone companies.
The internet is not run by telephone. I'm not sure if you knew this.
And yes, all the links about telephone companies remain invalid, because they are, were, and will be, subject to the same regulation. It was the generic, non-telephone ISPs that were shoehorned into the same definition that the repeal is removing.
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@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
And yes, all the links about telephone companies remain invalid
Were they telephone companies or were they ISPs? I'm confused. Maybe that's because the biggest telephone companies in the US are also the biggest ISPs in the US.
How dare those people accuse the ISPs that also happen to be telephone companies of violating Net Neutrality on the internet service they were providing! They are also providers of telephones, which makes them immune to this regulation somehow!
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@pie_flavor But what is a "telephone company"?
Virtually all telephones are run by VOIP now. Specifically because telecoms put together IP networks to handle their telephony infrastructure. They also sell their excess capacity to other telecoms and ISPs.
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@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
The internet is not run by telephone. I'm not sure if you knew this.
That's news to me, especially because AT&T came to my house last year to install an extra telephone line so that I could have broadband internet.
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@captain Like I said. New laws. Not shoehorning new concepts into old and outdated laws.
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@pie_flavor Same tech, same concepts.
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@pie_flavor said in Benefits of the repeal of Net Neutrality:
@captain Like I said. New laws. Not shoehorning new concepts into old and outdated laws.
So the logical way to make new laws is to throw out the old ones and then maybe think about making new ones? Where have I heard that idea before?