Can Firefox make a comeback?
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@twelvebaud define supported™
In all seriousness, however, If you were asking whether your current version (1.5.3.something) supports benchpress' JIT compiling... I don't think so... likely 1.6.0 and up.
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@twelvebaud said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@pie_flavor I don't dispute that Discourse has the same ... performance characteristics, let's say... on subsequent loads as it does on the first, but you're delusional if you think the word "fast" describes it.
That said, I still wonder if truncating the
post_actions
table would have made things bearable...I'm delusional if I think the word 'fast' describes it?
I click the button, it goes to the page. It does it in half a second, which is impressive given my shit internet connection. does the same thing in no less than two seconds. This expands to a truly slow-ass load when I need to wait for all the images to load, because every time an image loads it'll scroll in a random direction (or twitter embeds, or iFramely nonsense, etc.), unlike scroll staying where it is unless I tell it to move. Slow-ass loading is compounded by the fact that I can't use infinite scroll because it's a broken piece of shit, so I need to do a slow-ass load every fifty read posts, whereas infinite scroll is fantastic. I don't care who rips on it, I have literally never had a problem with infinite scroll, whereas after five minutes with 's I disabled it due to incredible bugginess
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@julianlam said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@pie_flavor No, you misunderstood what I meant with "first load", I apologise. I mean first load by anyone after NodeBB is started from the command line. Once the template is JIT compiled, it never has to be, again.
So we managed to reduce cold load times to almost the same as a page transition.
Also no, I don't believe you guys are running latest. A small minority trolled @ben_lubar for running bleeding edge code 🚎
Well then @ben_lubar must be restarting it every five goddamn seconds, because I'm correcting the 2 seconds in my above post to be 4 seconds after literally just going back to page 2 of this thread after posting.
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@pie_flavor honestly don't know what to say to that. I f5'd on my phone and got back to this thread in less than 500ms.
You can throw all the anecdotes my way, I'll throw some right back at you
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@julianlam said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@pie_flavor honestly don't know what to say to that. I f5'd on my phone and got back to this thread in less than 500ms.
You can throw all the anecdotes my way, I'll throw some right back at you
Yup. Now go back one page. How slow is that? Or go to page 1. Even slower, right?
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@pie_flavor That's very much not my experience either. Going to a new thread takes a little under a second for me. Really not sure what to tell you there.
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@pie_flavor said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@julianlam said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@pie_flavor honestly don't know what to say to that. I f5'd on my phone and got back to this thread in less than 500ms.
You can throw all the anecdotes my way, I'll throw some right back at you
Yup. Now go back one page. How slow is that? Or go to page 1. Even slower, right?
@julianlam I don't think that's the template being compiled, I think that's iframely not having the post cached.
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Pros:
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Still have the ability to have a split address and search bar
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Multiprocess for parallel processing
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Decreased resource usage... I guess? I haven't really seen large benefits myself.
Cons:
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FF, at least for me, doesn't seem to register all of the processes in the "Processes > Apps" view of task manager, which can be tricky if you don't realize -
Even using the FF config generator, it took me a couple minutes to figure out how to get Pocket to GTFO
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In addition to Pocket, it took a few minutes as well to strip down to the basic blank homepage and blank new tab screen (homepage is obviously done through the homepage option, but blanking out the new tab screen is obscured- you now need to click the gear)
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Whether or not a particular extension is "upgraded" to WebExtensions is about a coin flip's chance
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Speak of the devil, WebExtensions
In spite of the cons, they aren't quite a dealbreaker. I'm using Quantum right now, and it performs pretty well. Though long term, I'm sticking with Waterfox.
Also, my wild (and dumb) prediction for 2018: the status bar will be brought back, and in style.
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@sumireko said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
"Processes > Apps" view
Isn't that just windows open on your screen grouped by application? I don't think there's any "registration".
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@sumireko said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
it performs pretty well
Didn't Chrome make that happen and more recently Edge, just by not having any extensions available for the browser when it came out? I'm sure if you removed all the extensions on any browser it would run noticeably faster without any code changes in the browser itself.
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@ben_lubar said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@sumireko said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
"Processes > Apps" view
Isn't that just windows open on your screen grouped by application? I don't think there's any "registration".
My mistake. I did the same with Chrome, and it has the same behavior. The windows are grouped, but the helper processes aren't. I'll update it.
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@kuro said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
I use my Opera (the Chrome version) for TDWTF and have ~99 other tabs open. I can barely register the seperate tabs which forces me to clean up every once in a while.
Multiple windows. Not all of my tabs are in the same window. I have a window with tabs of Craigslist listings for rental houses. I have a window with banking and bill paying tabs. I have a window or two with music tabs. And so on. Ok, there's one window that used to have so many tabs I had to maximize it to tell which tab was which, but I did eventually clean that one up somewhat.
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@accalia said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@pie_flavor said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Discourse has no memory problems in tabs,
uhh....
okay..........
just out of curiosity.,.... when was the last time you ran MEMTEST86+ on your RAM? i think you might have some parity errors there....
His RAM, or his computer's RAM? I'm voting for parity errors in his memory.
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@pie_flavor said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
scroll staying where it is unless I tell it to move.Huh??? I still remember tons of fun with jellypotato. (I am that the emoticon on no longer resembles 's thing smeared with grape jelly that gave rise to the name.)
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@hardwaregeek said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@pie_flavor said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
scroll staying where it is unless I tell it to move.Huh??? I still remember tons of fun with jellypotato. (I am that the emoticon on no longer resembles 's thing smeared with grape jelly that gave rise to the name.)
Again, I've literally never seen any problem with it. Although it's possible the version of I use is modified, with the first indication being the sweet potato emoji looking identical to the one here.
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@bb36e said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Not using a tab tree/vertical tab list is
I should use that.
So I can have even more excessive tabs open!
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@julianlam said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@twelvebaud define supported™
Merriam Webster says:
Definition of support
transitive verb
1 :to endure bravely or quietly: bear
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Ok, let's try this thi...
Oh.
I has a sad now. No .deb at least?
Oh well... will give it a go...
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@onyx said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Oh.
It runs fine from
/opt/
, but I had to create the desktop entry manually, which sucks.I wish more apps had the feature from JetBrains tools where you can have the app itself create its own entry.
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@hardwaregeek said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@accalia said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@pie_flavor said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Discourse has no memory problems in tabs,
uhh....
okay..........
just out of curiosity.,.... when was the last time you ran MEMTEST86+ on your RAM? i think you might have some parity errors there....
His RAM, or his computer's RAM? I'm voting for parity errors in his memory.
some from column one some from column B.
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@accalia said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@ben_lubar said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@el_heffe said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
[...] and memory usage are irrelevant
Memory usage is always irrelevant until you run out of physical memory. Then it's extremely relevant.
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@onyx said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
No .deb at least?
Is it not in the distro's repositories?
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@anonymous234 said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@onyx said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
No .deb at least?
Is it not in the distro's repositories?
most linux distros don't include firefox due to licensing restrictions by the mozilla organization. they usually will include a reskinned build of firefox that is firefox just with a different name and the iconography that had bad license terms replaced. Ubuntu used seamonkey for ages as their firefox.
similar reasons are why few distros include google chrome, instead including chromium which is google chrome but before the google bits are added in.
it's been quite a few years since i checked but i assume nothing has changed on that front... because lawyers are very resistent to change.
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@accalia said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
it's been quite a few years since i checked but i assume nothing has changed on that front
Something did change in February last year, since Debian used to provide Iceweasel, but now provide Firefox ESR
Also this "bug" report
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@timebandit said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Something did change in February last year, since Debian used to provide Iceweasel, but now provide Firefox ESR
oh. neatto then.
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@cartman82 I coulda swore it came with a .desktop file, but I can't find it in the
/opt/firefox
directory. So either I moved it, or I got it some somewheres else.EDIT: Here's mine:
[Desktop Entry] Version=1.0 Name=Firefox Comment=Browse the World Wide Web Icon=/opt/firefox/browser/icons/mozicon128.png Exec=/opt/firefox/firefox %u Terminal=false Type=Application Categories=Network;WebBrowser; Actions=Default;Mozilla;ProfileManager; X-Desktop-File-Install-Version=0.22 [Desktop Action Default] Name=Default Profile Exec=/opt/firefox/firefox --no-remote -P minefield-default [Desktop Action Mozilla] Name=Mozilla Profile Exec=/opt/firefox/firefox --no-remote -P minefield-mozilla [Desktop Action ProfileManager] Name=Profile Manager Exec=/opt/firefox/firefox --no-remote --profile-manager
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I found my first serious peeve with the new Firefox - no search indicator in the scroll bar.
You know, these yellow things.
You don't realize how useful they are until they are no longer there.
Apparently there was an add-on that handled this for Firefox, but it got swept away during the addonpocalypse.
Shame.
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@jaloopa said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Either way, it's better than Edge, which shifts all the text around once you click into it because it hides the HTTP:// part when not focused. That means that for the case when you want to select a part of the URL or have your cursor in a particular position you need to click, rescan, move the mouse and click/double click/click-and-drag again
Ohhhh that infuriates me so much!
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So I went on a hunt for search engines that recommend you switch browsers.
Google, of course.
And Microsoft.
Found Yandex apparently has their own browser. (No idea what the base is.)
But I haven't found one outright recommending Firefox. Hmm....
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@kuro said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Meaning either you guys are running 8k resolutions on your machines or you are multiplying the actual number by like 10.
Or you have more than one window open.
Edit: Shouldn't have hit post. I realized all the slow would be there right as I saw "4 replies"...
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@tsaukpaetra said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
So I went on a hunt for search engines that recommend you switch browsers.
Google, of course.
And Microsoft.
Found Yandex apparently has their own browser. (No idea what the base is.)
But I haven't found one outright recommending Firefox. Hmm....
It's almost like
Mozilla doesn't have a search engine
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@pie_flavor said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@tsaukpaetra said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
So I went on a hunt for search engines that recommend you switch browsers.
Google, of course.
And Microsoft.
Found Yandex apparently has their own browser. (No idea what the base is.)
But I haven't found one outright recommending Firefox. Hmm....
It's almost like
https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/SomberAncientBlackfootedferret
Mozilla doesn't have a search engine
Almost.
I was placing my bets with Yahoo, but I would have lost the Internet Points in that regard.
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@ben_lubar said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
I'm sure if you removed all the extensions on any browser it would run noticeably faster without any code changes in the browser itself.
Adblockers or NoScript are popular extensions, and since they prevent useless scripts from running, they should increase the browser performance.
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@accalia said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@anonymous234 said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@onyx said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
No .deb at least?
Is it not in the distro's repositories?
most linux distros don't include firefox due to licensing restrictions by the mozilla organization. they usually will include a reskinned build of firefox that is firefox just with a different name and the iconography that had bad license terms replaced. Ubuntu used seamonkey for ages as their firefox.
similar reasons are why few distros include google chrome, instead including chromium which is google chrome but before the google bits are added in.
it's been quite a few years since i checked but i assume nothing has changed on that front... because lawyers are very resistent to change.
AFAIK, that’s not true like, at all.
Firefox used to be there, just one command away. It was different in Debian, because they wanted nonfree bits strip and they weren’t allowed to offer THAT as Firefox, so they went for the ice weasel project. Ubuntu never offered sea monkey instead of Firefox.
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What the hell happened to my new tab page
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@kt_ And that's why you use a dist that doesn't care about the whole free/nonfree bollocks so you get something that's built to be best from a users perspective and not from the Church of Stallman perspective.
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@atazhaia said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@kt_ And that's why you use a dist that doesn't care about the whole free/nonfree bollocks so you get something that's built to be best from a users perspective and not from the Church of Stallman perspective.
Well, I never contested that. I contested @accalia’s claim that biggest distros didn’t used to pack Firefox because of licensing issues, which would also make Firefox the bad guys. This was never the case, save for a project that simply changed the product. And that’s understandable from the perspective of the Firefox guys: it was a different product, why should it be branded as Firefox?
People used to use official bzips, because they didn’t want to wait for package maintainers.
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@kt_ I was using a general 'you' rather than specifically directed at you. I dunno of a good replacement word that doesn't sound like I'm pretending I'm royalty too.
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@pleegwat said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
What the hell happened to my new tab page
They trashed it.
I got back to something resembling what I had before by clicking on the Gear icon and clearing out everything but Top Sites, then going into about:config and increasing browser.newtabpage.activity-stream.topSitesCount. They're still small and square and 6 across, but at least you can have more than 12.
IIRC, for other uses for the new tab page people were working on solutions that put the design you want into extension storage or something similar. (Warning: might be a solution for some other thing they want to do; my memory of workarounds is kind of a blur at this point.)
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@atazhaia said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@kt_ I was using a general 'you' rather than specifically directed at you. I dunno of a good replacement word that doesn't sound like I'm pretending I'm royalty too.
Y'alls
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I've seen a tremendous amount of workarounds to the change thus far that have involved about:config... Just a friendly reminder that the typical end user is never going to do that... seems like they're just fucked on this update. And they just have to figure it out.
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@heterodox said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
I've seen a tremendous amount of workarounds to the change thus far that have involved about:config
Some change in particular?
At least there isabout:config
, which is missing from chromium.
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@adynathos said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@heterodox said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
I've seen a tremendous amount of workarounds to the change thus far that have involved about:config
Some change in particular?
At least there isabout:config
, which is missing from chromium.Isn't it about:flags ?
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@tsaukpaetra said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Isn't it about:flags ?
I looked at that and it seems very limited in comparison to Firefox, mostly "turn this big feature on or off"
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@cartman82 said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Unfortunately, they don't have the foothold in Mobile
There is one thing with which they could beat Chrome on mobile: if they added full support for plugins. Chrome can never do that, because the second they would, everybody would install μBlock Origin and that would drain the source of their revenue. Mozilla is not dependent on advertising, so they could.
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@gurth said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
The engine in that picture is a turbofan, not a turbojet.
It's a something, there are no turbofans with centrifugal HP and centrifugal LP compressors. Centrifugal compressors at all in turbofans are insanely rare (it necessitates a really fat engine).
I think that's supposed to be an incorrect drawing of a JT-15D. Only the HP should be centrifugal:There's usually more Quantum Compositors on a real engine too, single stage is unusual
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@bulb said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
@cartman82 said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Unfortunately, they don't have the foothold in Mobile
There is one thing with which they could beat Chrome on mobile: if they added full support for plugins. Chrome can never do that, because the second they would, everybody would install μBlock Origin and that would drain the source of their revenue. Mozilla is not dependent on advertising, so they could.
Funny you should say that...
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Mozilla Foundation's brillant marketing strategy.
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@gąska said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Mozilla Foundation's brillant marketing strategy.
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@adynathos said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Adblockers or NoScript are popular extensions, and since they prevent useless scripts from running, they should increase the browser performance.
Overall they're the second worst performance burden behind AV products because (to hide elements) they inject a couple-dozen-meg CSS file into every loaded page, and (to block script) register to be called back whenever any element is added to any DOM. It's ironic -- and sad -- that ads and certain analytics frameworks are still so bad that blocking them can come out ahead.
@gąska said in Can Firefox make a comeback?:
Mozilla Foundation's brillant marketing strategy.
@twelvebaud said in Firefox Nightly: "you know that new and buggy feature you disabled?...:
#FoxNo, #FoxOff, #FoxThatShit
Oh, and while we're on the subject,