Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems
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@JazzyJosh User agent sniffing was known to be unreliable 15 years ago, and it's only gotten worse since
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@ChaosTheEternal a is you and blakeyrat.
Yes, IE8 supports em sizing for content. It does not support em sizing in media queries to adjust on width which is how responsive works, and what Bootstrap 4 uses.
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@Onyx said:
Ok.
User-Agent sniffing. Hey, we already concluded that's a great idea, didn't we?
I don't care, I just want something that works. If it's a bad idea and works, I'd much rather have that than it's a bad idea and doesn't work, which is what we have now.
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@Arantor said:
which is how responsive works,
That's an interesting definition of the word "works". Seems contrary to the common definition we all know.
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WTF. Why on my laptop are highlighted posts underlined, but here on my desktop they look like they've been used as a backing while someone spray painted the background of their elementary school production of 1001 Arabian Nights?
EDIT: oh they're also underlined. I guess it's like the best of both worlds? But why is the desktop like 100% different than the laptop? Weird.
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NEW BUG: I edited that last post. See the edit? Nope, me neither. It's just completely lost. No error, no loading spinner, nothing. Poof. Gone.
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@blakeyrat This edit?
@blakeyrat said:
EDIT: oh they're also underlined. I guess it's like the best of both worlds? But why is the desktop like 100% different than the laptop? Weird.
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@RaceProUK ... so you can see it but the person who posted it can't?
QUALITY.
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@blakeyrat Fine, as it's you.
Adjusting on the width of viewport is the basis for "responsive design" to have one set of code adjust to different screen sizes.
The current version uses a shitty technique because old browsers don't offer anything better.
The next version uses a better technique, that does accommodate different scaling options, but it isn't ready yet.
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@blakeyrat The highlighting is new. You probably haven't refreshed the site on laptop since the change.
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@Onyx said:
@blakeyrat The highlighting is new. You probably haven't refreshed the site on laptop since the change.
Ok; then I guess the bug is that it didn't tell me there was a change that requires a reload, like it's supposed to.
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@Arantor said:
It does not support em sizing in media queries
IE8 doesn't support media queries at all, so the point is moot.
The only reasoning behind remaining on pixels is what @RaceProUK wasn't saying when relaying Bootstrap's reasoning (until passing their quote on verbatim), specifically that they are intending to use
rem
s as well, which aren't supported in IE8.
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@RaceProUK Funny, GWT works just fine delivering different JS / CSS to IE 6/7/8/9/10/gecko/webkit/safari/opera
Now if you're going to go down the path of saying that I didn't just specify every available user-agent, then sure, I didn't. I have a limited number of permutations of browsers I need to support. A forum like nodebb is going to be exposed to many, many different user-agents than mine will. If it's not in there, that's when you should be falling back to more primitive methods, and still be giving a user a way to choose which version they want to see.
And if you're going to go down the path that the user can change their user-agent string, then in that case the user is TR
We'll also ignore the facts that I specified a framework that NodeBB isn't using, and that GWT's moving away from providing widgets entirely.
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@Arantor said:
Adjusting on the width of viewport is the basis for "responsive design" to have one set of code adjust to different screen sizes.
That sounds great in theory.
The implementation is a buggy mess of shit.
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@blakeyrat said:
Let's do it the wrong buggy broken way because doing it right is
too hardimpossible in this case!FTFY
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@blakeyrat said:
WTF. Why on my laptop are highlighted posts underlined, but here on my desktop they look like they've been used as a backing while someone spray painted the background of their elementary school production of 1001 Arabian Nights?
EDIT: oh they're also underlined. I guess it's like the best of both worlds? But why is the desktop like 100% different than the laptop? Weird.
Try reloading. Ben keeps implementing enhancements.
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@Polygeekery said:
FTFY
Fine it's impossible. Then let me turn it off. I'd rather manually select than be forced onto the wrong choice.
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@blakeyrat said:
So at 125% zoom, it's not 990 pixels (or whatever the specific value is), it's 1237 pixels.
No, it isn't.
@blakeyrat said:
Which I think we ALL can agree is ridiculously wide.
If it were true, yes it would be.
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@aliceif said:
Ben keeps implementing enhancements.
I guess it makes the post easier to see? But what a weird-ass styling.
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What is this:
Like... some kind of easter egg Xbox gamepad thing? Or...?
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@blakeyrat
Upload user image, center user image and remove user image.
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The way I see it, there's three concerns for Mobile:
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Mobile browsers tend to have smaller screens. However, desktop users can have a window size of anywhere from a few pixels square to a huge high-def fullscreen experience. So you really should be designing your responsive breakpoints for making sure the experience looks good at a smaller screen size, not for mobile experience specifically.
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Mobile browsers tend to have touchscreens. However, touchscreens range from cheap 3" capacitive devices to a 12" Surface and beyond. So you should design touch capability independent of screen size by making sure your important items are buttons rather than tiny links, not relying overmuch on hover text, et cetera
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Mobile data plans often have caps. There's no downside to downloading less on desktop, though, and some desktop users have slow connections or caps themselves, so it's best to make sure you minimize what you send overall.
Pretending like there's one factor that suddenly means "phone" is shortsighted. The only factor that probably means "phone or tablet" is "downloaded a native app", and even then, you might be on an Android-based Pi without a touchscreen.
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@blakeyrat said:
What is this:
That big black square is a customizable image banner. Those are the controls for it. It's got terrible discoverability and UX.
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@Luhmann said:
@blakeyrat
Upload user image, center user image and remove user image.What kind of telepathy am I missing that would have documented that somehow? Jesus. I can't even IMAGINE a shittier UI for that.
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@Yamikuronue said:
That big black square is a customizable image banner.
I don't even see a black square... is it like a 1 pixel border?
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@blakeyrat Sorry, the rectangle. Oh, zooming in, I guess it has like... a triangle pattern? Whatever the fuck that is.
This bit:
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@blakeyrat said:
(And "big enough" needs to be measured in centimeters, NOT pixels.)
Wait....what? How the fuck do you propose that work from the development side of things? Do you want @julianlam to come round to your place with a fucking ruler and measure your screen before the page displays?
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@Yamikuronue said:
@blakeyrat Sorry, the rectangle.
Ok, it's not square and it's not black, so I hope you can see how I was confused. Now I'm going to submit this post using that puce octagon there.
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@blakeyrat said:
I don't expect that, but I also don't expect people like Ben L to tell me the value is 992 pixels when it's way bigger than that.
But...it isn't.
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@Polygeekery said:
@blakeyrat said:
(And "big enough" needs to be measured in centimeters, NOT pixels.)
Wait....what? How the fuck do you propose that work from the development side of things? Do you want @julianlam to come round to your place with a fucking ruler and measure your screen before the page displays?
I assume the OS tracks dpi/ppi so if you know how many pixels total, you then know the physical length, right? But I also remember Windows always assuming a certain dpi regardless of reality, so maybe not. Don't devices like monitors and touch screens return this kind of metadata via standard device queries (OS-level)?
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@Polygeekery said:
Do you want @julianlam to come round to your place with a fucking ruler and measure your screen before the page displays?
no,. that's the nasal demon's job.
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@accalia said:
@Polygeekery said:
Do you want @julianlam to come round to your place with a fucking ruler and measure your screen before the page displays?
no,. that's the nasal demon's job.
The user can measure the screen and type the size in
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@Polygeekery said:
Wait....what? How the fuck do you propose that work from the development side of things? Do you want @julianlam to come round to your place with a fucking ruler and measure your screen before the page displays?
I'm telling you how it should work.
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@blakeyrat said:
I have no objection to that.
The problem is forcing me to use a particular view I do not want and one that is not even remotely close to optimal for my device with no way to override that choice.
Make your browser window larger, see what happens, then try and tell me that you still have no way to override it.
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@mikehurley said:
I assume the OS tracks dpi/ppi so if you know how many pixels total, you then know the physical length, right? But I also remember Windows always assuming a certain dpi regardless of reality, so maybe not.
Windows assumes hardware is 96 DPI. Windows itself can render in any DPI from like 64 to 300+. (Well. In theory it can. There's a lot of bugs preventing that from being practical.) (Pointless trivia: Mac Classic assumed 72 DPI, and since until the Mac II all Mac displays were actually built by Apple, it was a 100% correct assumption for many years.)
That said; 96 DPI is a bad assumption on a lot of devices now. My laptop is a 1080p 13.3" screen, which means Windows has to be at about 150% zoom to resemble 96 DPI. Which, of course, that zoom contributes to the NodeBB breakage also somehow.
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@blakeyrat said:
And again: there are sites out there, like Fark.com, that do (AFAICT) a perfect job of detecting mobile devices with small screens. So don't tell me it's not possible, because I've seen it.
Yeah, that's a damned fine user experience there. I will have lots of fun side scrolling and losing my place.
But of course, I am not going to go on their forums and complain and bitch, because I know that making my window larger fixes the problem...
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@Polygeekery said:
Make your browser window larger, see what happens, then try and tell me that you still have no way to override it.
Then the paragraphs are too long and content on this forum is impossible to read.
Look, fuck off. It's a valid bug. I'm done defending it. If you want to debate it more, make your own thread and do it there. I'm moving on.
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I seriously want to report some of these bugs, but why the fuck do I have to create an account on a THIRD PARTY website to report a bug with this website, a website I already have an account for? Fuuuck.
(Also who would choose GitHub as a BUG TRACKER? The bug tracker was the shittiest part of that site. Maybe it's gotten better in the last couple years.)
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@blakeyrat said:
@Polygeekery said:
No, it isn't.
Chrome's free. Try it yourself.
I am using it right now. And if I ran in to this issue while I was using the site I would just expand the window a little bit and not throw a goddamned nuclear hissy fit because I am not a whiny cockhole.
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@blakeyrat said:
I seriously want to report some of these bugs, but why the fuck do I have to create an account on a THIRD PARTY website to report a bug with this website, a website I already have an account for? Fuuuck.
Do you think the developers have time to go to every single site that runs NodeBB, every single day, and check in and see what bugs there are?
Forums are not bug trackers. We have already learned this point the hard way.
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@Polygeekery I don't give a shit about NodeBB's bug tracker.
I'm asking why I need to make a new account for DailyWTF's bug tracker. I ALREADY HAVE A DAILY WTF ACCOUNT. I'M USING IT RIGHT NOW.
BTW, that "thing" that GitHub calls a bug tracker ain't no bug tracker either.
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@blakeyrat said:
make your own thread
Where do you get this bullshit notion that you own threads from?
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@Polygeekery I just don't get why people who hate me so much keep going so far out of their way to read my ideas. Just... go the fuck away. We'd both be happier.
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@blakeyrat said:
I'm asking why I need to make a new account for DailyWTF's bug tracker. I ALREADY HAVE A DAILY WTF ACCOUNT. I'M USING IT RIGHT NOW.
Oh FFS, does everyone have to fucking spoon feed you??
https://what.thedailywtf.com/category/10/disco-fa_bug
If it is a WTDWTF specific bug, post it there. Send @ben_lubar a fucking message. Jesus fucking christ. If it is a bug with NodeBB, post it on GitHub. Why do you insist on making things so difficult and acting like you are a retarded little manchild who cannot properly wipe himself after he shits?
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@Polygeekery Then what's the link in the banner at the top of the forums for? Because that goes to fucking GitHub, you piece of shit, where I have to make a NEW login to provide a bug report for a site I already have a login to.
If GitHub is the wrong way to do it, then why the fuck is the banner there? Explain that to me. Better use tiny words, because I'm pretty fucking stupid.
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@blakeyrat said:
Just... go the fuck away. We'd both be happier.
I doubt that. I am a pretty happy fellow. If I get any happier, I will look like a goddamned emoji. :)
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@blakeyrat said:
Then what's the link in the banner at the top of the forums for?
@Polygeekery said:
If it is a bug with NodeBB, post it on GitHub.
Anything else I can spoon feed to you before I have to run some errands?