The Star Wars VIIIIIII: The Force Awakens FRIDGE LOGIC THREAD **NOW DEFINITELY SPOILERS**
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No, they actually sort of explained that. I think the theory has always been something handwavy along the lines of "transporters are short-range because the beam dissipates", and they hooked Kirk's transport into a transwarp engine, which is still handwavy but somehow magically better than regular warp--certainly they've tied the warp engines into other things before to boost them, so there's even precedent.
The problem with that whole idea is, if they can just teleport across light years (which is what they did in that scene), why the fuck do they need ships at all? Wouldn't everyone be teleporting all the time, from planet to planet, bypassing the space travel altogether?
You see, that's my main problem with JJ Abrams. He can make an effective scene, but he's just not a big picture man. We saw that in Lost (enjoyed that ending that tied everything together?), we saw it in the Star Wars reboot-quel, and we definitely saw it in the Star Trek reboot.
Need a way to get the heroes off a frozen planet? Invent a long range teleporter. How will that affect the universe as a whole? WHO CARES! Off to the next scene, don't sweat the details!
Being a shitty little imitator that he is, he was maybe the right man to reboot Star Wars. But he is definitely NOT the right man to create a long lasting shared universe, for the franchise to thrive in. Disney was right to kick him out for the Episode 8.
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How do you know the First Order doesn't use that same model of ship?
Why would they? The rest of their stuff is either custom built like the Mega Death Star (Megadeth Star?) or comes from Empire Supply Warehouse. They just happened to augment their uniform fleet with some random truck that's available to the general public?
Maybe they had a police auction and Han picked it up there.
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You sound angry. Relax. It's just a movie.
Why would they?
Maybe it's commodity. Guess what our military uses:
Wow it's almost identical to a civilian truck! Oh wait it is identical, other than the paint job.
Maybe they had a police auction and Han picked it up there.
Sure why not.
Look, I'm not saying the script is perfect or anything, but let's focus the vitriol on the plot points that actually don't make any sense, rather than the ones that have easy explanations.
Like why Luke split the map in two pieces, then gave one piece to some random old dude on some random planet for apparently no reason at all.
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Oh and that also justifies hatred of Return of the Jedi, look how big a role Lando plays!
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Overall, what Lucas's been saying all this time is that evil is cunning and intelligent, while good is romantic and fucking stupid as fuck.
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If Finn were lying, he'd already know that anyway.
As I said, But it might also be a rouge softy, who could realize that it was his chance to rise, if he'd got caught. Or, when in dire straits, he could decide he'd steal the droid or the map. So it was a moronic decision.
be Poe just genuinely made a bad call. It happens. It was a stressful situation.
Don't agree but get all right.
Ok that's gibberish (at least one missing word?), and it sounds suspiciously like racist gibberish to me. Especially the last clause, which sounds like, "if I'm disappointed with the quality of a movie, I INSTANTLY BLAME THE BLACK GUY."
Heh. Won't comment further.
And it has a gasp BLACK character!!! They didn't even give him a watermelon to eat at any point. Space-watermelon.
I guess in your little mind, the prequels are bad because Samuel L Jackson has a prominent role in them, right? Oh and that also justifies hatred of Return of the Jedi, look how big a role Lando plays!
Heh, now's the time to call me a transphobe.
This movie has bad storytelling and you're too much attached to what I said in the middle of my rant. I have no problem with the guy bring black, I have a problem with awful characters and I used it to take a shot at what I already explained.
Grow up and stop playing the game of pointing the finger and yelling "racist".
Btw, the new trilogy was much better than this shit. I actually quite like the new trilogy, it's quite good entertainment. And the cast is quite nice, I really like Ewan McGregor (and I hate Natalie Portman, she's a mediocre actress).
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I thought so too, but apparently it was a total surprise to a lot of people.
Remember the part in Attack of the Clones where the Separatists are showing off the CAD model of their "secret weapon," which takes up most of the screen at one point? Supposedly, that was too subtle for some people.
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As I said, But it might also be a rouge softy, who could realize that it was his chance to rise, if he'd got caught.
Everything you type...
Don't agree but get all right.
...is gibberish.
This movie has bad storytelling and you're too much attached to what I said in the middle of my rant.
Yeah, the racist attitude kind of overwhelms the rest of the criticism, somehow.
I have no problem with the guy bring black,
More gibberish. But assuming you meant "being", well, yes, you obviously do. You've said as much just a few posts up.
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If by "some explanatory stuff" you mean the screenplay of the film itself, then yes.
No, but I can't find where I read that, now.
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The first transwarp ship didn't exist until Star Trek III.
Well they specifically mentioned transwarp in the context of the transporter, so you can go write a nitpicky letter to JJ Abrams. I don't care enough about it to figure out how it was powered, except that since they were on the ground, obviously they didn't use a ship to power the transporter. I can't believe you got that wrong. God, you're so stupid.
"In the alternate reality created by Nero's temporal incursion, Scott had a debate with an instructor of his, who maintained that transwarp beaming was impossible. In an attempt to prove his instructor wrong, Scott tested his theory on Admiral Archer's prized beagle, although the experiment was a failure and the dog was lost.
Transwarp beam to Kronos
A transwarp transport from Earth to Kronos in 2259
In 2258, in the same alternate reality, while stationed on Delta Vega, Scott encountered Spock (who had traveled back in time from the year 2387) and James T. Kirk. There, Spock provided Scott with the equation for successfully achieving transwarp beaming"
Transwarp beaming | Memory Alpha | Fandom
Transwarp beaming was a transwarp theory originally postulated by Starfleet officer Montgomery Scott, whereby it was possible to beam an object or person from one star system to another, or even...
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Obviously not or I wouldn't have asked.
Perhaps you are, but were trying to hide the fact. I don't know.
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Did she?
She had to have Solo to tell her it was all real. Draw your own conclusions.
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Yeah, but what about psychics?
I don't usually read tabloids, so I don't have a position on whether or not he lets psychics get in the way of his storytelling.
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We don't even see Leia, a force-sensitive character, react to it
I thought she stopped and kinda stared off into space a bit but I'm not planning on seeing the movie again immediately to check.
Bear in mind that Leia was not really trained in the way of the Force, and Luke didn't react at all either when Alderaan blew up, so maybe you have to have training to notice.
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The problem with that whole idea is, if they can just teleport across light years (which is what they did in that scene), why the fuck do they need ships at all? Wouldn't everyone be teleporting all the time, from planet to planet, bypassing the space travel altogether?
Up until Kirk and Scotty actually do it, it was thought to be impossible. See the Memory Alpha wiki link I posted later.
You see, that's my main problem with JJ Abrams. He can make an effective scene, but he's just not a big picture man.
QFT. Apparently he knows people will forgive a lot of big-picture-missing and keep going to see his movies. So far there's no evidence he's wrong.
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@blakeyrat said:
How do you know the First Order doesn't use that same model of ship?
Why would they?
From what little we could see, the front of Han's cargo ship was roughly shaped like Ren's ship, that is, a long, thin, rectangle. Then they immediately ran to hide, so never got a better look. I thought it was Ren at first, too--and I didn't stop to think until later that Ren's ship wasn't nearly big enough.
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Like why Luke split the map in two pieces, then gave one piece to some random old dude on some random planet for apparently no reason at all.
I spent a good portion of that scene going "who the hell is that guy?"
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I thought she stopped and kinda stared off into space a bit but I'm not planning on seeing the movie again immediately to check.
I recall her doing that when Han died. I don't remember them making a point of it originally, but I thought that everyone was looking up at the sky and watching it happen, so it wouldn't have had the same effect since pretty much everyone was observing it.
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Remember the part in Attack of the Clones where the Separatists are showing off the CAD model of their "secret weapon," which takes up most of the screen at one point? Supposedly, that was too subtle for some people.
In the EU they had built at least one more superweapon that was essentially the skeleton of a death star, without the entire sphere. I think they made another one that was just the gun itself, like a giant flashlight or fleshlight. It's not unreasonable that nerds might've gotten confused. I bet a lot of people don't look at screens or stuff that goes on in the background, either.
Hell, it could be the XKCD Ten Thousand, too. When I saw the HHGTTG movie in 2004 or whenever it came out, after it was over, the people in front of me talked about how it was a pretty cool movie and wondered if there'd be a sequel. They obviously didn't know anything about the books. Maybe some of the people who were confused by the ending of episode 3 were also series newbs. Apparently there's still people old enough to have seen the first movie in theaters, who have not yet seen it.
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I recall her doing that when Han died.
Oh, maybe that was it. The movie wasn't so awesome that all those little things sunk, and I've only seen it once.
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In the EU they had built at least one more superweapon that was essentially the skeleton of a death star, without the entire sphere. I think they made another one that was just the gun itself, like a giant flashlight or fleshlight. It's not unreasonable that nerds might've gotten confused. I bet a lot of people don't look at screens or stuff that goes on in the background, either.
It was called Darksaber, Durga the Hutt's Death Star design which was stripped down to just be the superlaser and reactor. IIRC it exploded on its first shot because of shoddy laborers.
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Durga the Hutt's Death Star design which was stripped down to just be the superlaser and reactor. IIRC it exploded on its first shot because of shoddy laborers.
I knew someone would nerd up and admit to having the details.
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More gibberish. But assuming you meant "being"
Autocorrect makes me @accalia a lot. I'm mostly posting here when walking my dog.
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The Expanded Universe was like 90% of my childhood. There are major reasons I don't like what Disney is doing.
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Like why Luke split the map in two pieces, then gave one piece to some random old dude on some random planet for apparently no reason at all.
You'll probably learn why in the best movie, because according to Jar Jar Abrams, making a incomprehensible story with a lot of holes isn't a bad thing, if fans can think up the explanation themselves, or if it's explained in later parts, vide Lost. (I actually liked this one watching it all in one go, but it was frustrating a lot, seeing how the story doesn't progress. I can't imagine how awful it had to be when watching it while it was being released.)
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yes, you obviously do.
You seem to think that if you keep repeating it enough times it'll become true. Good luck!
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Autocorrect makes me @accalia a lot. I'm mostly posting here when walking my dog.
That's a perfect time, then, to use speech recognition instead, assuming your spoken English isn't too heavily accented for the phone's software.
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That's a perfect time, then, to use speech recognition instead, assuming your spoken English isn't too heavily accented for the phone's software.
Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd like people I pass to hear all those "fuck you" phrases.
TBH, I have yet to grow accustomed to talking to my phone. I haven't even used Siri yet.
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Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd like people I pass to hear all those "fuck you" phrases.
The Internet[1] suggests that as a Central European such behavior wouldn't be out of place.
[1] that is, the handful of stories I've heard of people having
misadventures specifically in Poland, which surely are representative of everyday life, right?
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Also see: Luke put R2D2 in sleep mode before leaving. Ok. But... why/how did R2 decide to wake up at exactly that moment? Was he on a timer? Or was he reacting to events? But he was in a closet, so. Also why not give R2 the ENTIRE map instead of just like 85% of it? R2 was safe the entire film in the Rebel's main base, a hell of a lot safer than that old guy who inexplicably had it at the beginning of the film. (Were we supposed to recognize him? I mean as a character; obviously it was Max Von Sydow.)
I thought R2 was just set up to power on with the map when a certain pre-ordained scenario came to pass.Like why Luke split the map in two pieces, then gave one piece to some random old dude on some random planet for apparently no reason at all.
I totally expected Luke to tell the chick, "I've been expecting you." to close the movie but then it didn't happen and I was kind of disappointed that he hadn't foreseen/planned it
all* from the start - but maybe he did and they just didn't tip their hat on that part to end this movie.*Clearly he didn't plan ALL of everything like the destruction of the planets or Han's death, I'm just saying he knew about setting it up so the chick gets the info needed to meet him on the island.
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I totally expected Luke to tell the chick, "I've been expecting you." to close the movie but then it didn't happen and I was kind of disappointed that he hadn't foreseen/planned it all from the start - but maybe he did and they just didn't tip their hat on that part to end this movie.
Including the murder of billions of people on those 5 planets?
And he did nothing to prevent it?I hope they don't go that route.
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I thought R2 was just set up to power on with the map when a certain pre-ordained scenario came to pass.
Which he detected... how?
I totally expected Luke to tell the chick, "I've been expecting you." to close the movie but then it didn't happen and I was kind of disappointed that he hadn't foreseen/planned it all from the start
You mean he planted the map piece on that old guy because the old guy lived on the same planet as Rey and he knew for sure that Poe would get the map but then get captured, but then escape with a rebelling storm trooper, but then they'd crash and the nearest outpost would just happen to be the one Rey sold her junk at and they'd hook up and ...
Look, if he knew about Rey, why wouldn't he just go TALK to her?
You theory is stupid.
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He could simply say that his involvement would not have prevented it, and worse, that his involvement would have meant the ultimate end mission to destroy the deathplanet would have failed and the entire resistance would have been destroyed.
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The entire movie series is built upon a series of Force-based semicoincidences. You're basically calling the entire premise of Star Wars stupid.
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I hope they don't go that route
The alternative theory is what... that Luke is a weiner and ran away to let the rest of the universe die/submit to the First Order/Empire/whatever while he hides with his tail between his legs on a remote isolated island?
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Your theory has the same problem as, say, the plot of Halo 4.
If you make it so one character has FOREKNOWLEDGE of like a million events (but they did nothing about them), you also make them RESPONSIBLE for those events.
So like Cartman82 says, if you accept Luke knew all the events of the movies were going to happen, but he stayed on his little hilltop instead of actually DOING anything about them, you've now made Luke RESPONSIBLE for blowing up those 5 planets.
Having Luke whine, "well I wouldn't have been able to do anything about them anyway!" doesn't help, because it still doesn't change the fact that he didn't even fucking try.
The alternative theory is what... that Luke is a weiner and ran away to let the rest of the universe die/submit to the First Order/Empire/whatever while he hides with his tail between his legs on a remote isolated island?
That is clearly what happened, according to the information we have in the movie. He started a school for Jedi; his star pupil defected to Sloth from The Goonies, and he went off to have a nice little whine and moping session.
And yes, you're right, it's not very heroic and it does make him sound like a jackass. Maybe we'll get more in the next movie, who knows.
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Which he detected... how?
C3PO said R2 was in lowpower mode or something to that effect, not that he was completely disabled/shut down.
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Having Luke whine, "well I wouldn't have been able to do anything about them anyway!" doesn't help, because it still doesn't change the fact that he didn't even fucking try.
He didn't try no matter which way you go with it. In fact, in YOUR way he didn't even know that the resistance would win without him, he just ditched them with no way for them to contact him for help.
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C3PO said R2 was in lowpower mode or something to that effect, not that he was completely disabled/shut down.
Yes, and that answers my question... how?
He didn't try no matter which way you go with it. In fact, in YOUR way he didn't even know that the resistance would win without him, he just ditched them with no way for them to contact him for help.
Right; but at least he's not RESPONSIBLE for the events. If he wanted to quit the rebellion and hang out on an island somewhere, that's his right as a human being.
If he did that DESPITE knowing that his hanging out on the island would result in billions of deaths, then he's a mega-jackass.
I prefer to have the Luke exercising his right to retire, and not the Luke being a douchebag who indirectly murdered billions.
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That is clearly what happened, according to the information we have in the movie. He started a school for Jedi; his star pupil defected to Sloth from The Goonies, and he went off to have a nice little whine and moping session.
And yes, you're right, it's not very heroic and it does make him sound like a jackass. Maybe we'll get more in the next movie, who knows.
If that's how you think it went down, then that's a perfectly valid theory.
I had just hoped that he was a little less of a weiner than that.
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Also, Rey foresaw all kinds of shit when she touched the lightsaber of luke's.
Is it not plausible that Luke had already also seen that exact same shiz....
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He was always a whiny wiener. He was a wiener in the first entire film, except the last 10 minutes. He was a wiener during half of Empire Strikes Back. It's not out of character for Luke to whine or mope around.
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The alternative theory is you're putting way more thought into this than Abrams and his team of hacks ever did. Not nearly focused enough on the stuff that truly matters: toy tie-ins and fan service.
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Luke was lame in the original trilogy, and continues lame here, nothing unexpected.
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i'll agree on that point.
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Which he detected... how?
Homing beacon in the map that BB-8 had? Uh, with a delay, to explain why he didn't wake up immediately?
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He started a school for Jedi; his star pupil defected to Sloth from The Goonies, and he went off to have a nice little whine and moping session.
I got the impression there was another "killed a bunch of the other trainees" moment too, which gives Luke's "damn, I fucked up, I gotta go away and mull over what I did wrong" at least a little bit of validity. I mean, Ren's not that old, maybe it wasn't more than a couple years previous that it had happened, and once Luke went into hiding he wouldn't have had a reason to know about the Death Planet, etc.
