The undo button for @blakeyrat's favorite software
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THEY WORK THAT WAY BECAUSE SOME SHITTY DEVELOPER MADE THEM WORK THAT WAY.
Yep
@blakeyrat said:Then thought "eh good enough, I'm a total fucking hack."
Nope.CLOSED. NOTABUG. AS DESIGNED.
Someone isn't gonna design tools for someone else, especially if he's not being paid to do it (and sometimes even if he is...). He'll design tools that work with his workflow. If there's enough of a demand, they'll change.
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And i'm using Git just fine without using the CLI, People here have told me I "have to" learn the CLI more than any of my bosses at work. So
I'm guessing that you present a different side of yourself here than you do with your bosses.
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Someone isn't gonna design tools for someone else, especially if he's not being paid to do it (and sometimes even if he is...). He'll design tools that work with his workflow.
No, I think he's right in this case. Enough people have come here and are actively conspiring to keep him down.
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Someone isn't gonna design tools for someone else,
Right.
Because they're total fucking hacks.
I think I just said that.
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Right.
Yep.
Because they're total fucking hacks.
Nope. What leads you to that conclusion?
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If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
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If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
Yep. Why does having a GUI have anything to do with doing it right?
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Hell, people who can't do math or even read shouldn't be excluded from writing software either.
In fact, I'll go all in in your silliness and invoke Harrison Bergeron and suggest that the only people who should be able to write software are those who can't!
And you think Git is bad now.
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I love how I don't even need to be looking at this tab to watch this flame war. Thanks, Discourse!
Please, do continue.
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Is the goal to have people using the software? (If not then: why did you bother releasing it?)
If so, then doesn't it make sense to make the software usable for the greatest number of people? (If not then: you are an asshole.)
Then doesn't it make sense than the product isn't complete until it's usable by everybody, including those who are unable to use a CLI for whatever reason?
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Is the goal to have people using the software?
Yep.
If so, then doesn't it make sense to make the software usable for the greatest number of people? (If not then: you are an asshole.)
Which in the developer community is quite possibly a CLI.Then doesn't it make sense than the product isn't complete until it's usable by everybody, including those who are unable to use a CLI for whatever reason?
Nope.
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It sounds like you're getting ready to yell at everyone that we can't understand an ideal or the meaning of should.
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Which in the developer community is quite possibly a CLI.
Because of course CLI and GUI are mutually-exclusive? Or... what the fuck are you talking about?
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Why would I waste time to implement a GUI that nearly nobody would use?
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I love how I don't even need to be looking at this tab to watch this flame war.
Flame war? This little old thing? Has @blakeyrat even used the word poop yet?
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If so, then doesn't it make sense to make the software usable for the greatest number of people?
You're the one who thinks Willie Horton should be able to write software. Maybe that never occurred to him.
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Because our industry and all the tools it uses are fucking terrible.
if that's your opinion then perhaps development is not the role for you. maybe you should look to transfer into an architect or management role where you won't have to deal with the shit development tools and instead deal with shit management tools.
It demands a large amount of rote memory
no more memory than is required for remembering what keyboard shortcuts do what.There's absolutely no safety features-- a single typo and you can delete tons of work
with a proper backup scheme (which you should have regardless of whether you use GUI or CLI) you cannot delete anything permanently. Additionally you've seen my typing skills, they're atrocious! and i have no trouble on teh command line because i THINK about what i'm typing and CAREFULLY CHECK what i've typed before i submit it.Nor should I even have to try-- the only reason I'd ever need to use a CLI is if someone else FUCKED UP.
This is absolute shit. complete and utter bullshit coming from a developer.
What would be the point?
you'd be making the proiduct better. if that's not something to aim for then why are you complaining? because if there's no point in fixing it it must be perfect as is.And FUCK YOU if you think my different physical capabilities should disqualify me from the industry of software development
I don't think your physical disabilities should disqualify you from the indiustry. i think your complete and utter refusal to learn the tools of the trade disqualifies you. and what i see from here is "woe is me i have a disability! cater to me"
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@blakeyrat said:
If so, then doesn't it make sense to make the software usable for the greatest number of people?
You're the one who thinks Willie Horton should be able to write software. Maybe that never occurred to him.
What about Kitty Dukakis? Her, too?
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The number of. "No I understand the problem as ___, and ___ is how it should be done" posts is just a testament to how overly complex the problem domain is being made by business needs, and how the typical open source function to feature concept is fundamentally flawed.
It's the same thing with linux fanbois. "I can haz all this stuff with this obscure and jargon filled command line" and people end up using windows anyway.
No it's better to develop software to a specific business model that works perfect every time and make businesses conform, than to expose and support every possibility and watch people shoot themselves in the foot.
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Why would I waste time to implement a GUI that nearly nobody would use?
Is the goal to have people using the software?
If the goal is "fuck everybody, nobody should use it but me and people exactly like me", then I guess disregard. Otherwise, I already answered your question.
Additionally you've seen my typing skills, they're atrocious! and i have no trouble on teh command line because i THINK about what i'm typing and CAREFULLY CHECK what i've typed before i submit it.
You wouldn't have to spend so much time carefully checking if you had a better UI to use.
This is absolute shit.
Explain why.
because if there's no point in fixing it it must be perfect as is.
I'm not saying there's no point to fixing it, I'm saying there's NO CHANCE the fix would be accepted.
I don't think your physical disabilities should disqualify you from the indiustry.
Then you should also be criticizing non-accessible development tools that require use of the CLI, an interface with virtually zero accessibility features.
i think your complete and utter refusal to learn the tools of the trade disqualifies you. and what i see from here is "woe is me i have a disability! cater to me"
Do you make the same argument when people install wheelchair ramps on buildings? "Their refusal to learn how to walk up stairs should disqualify them from entering that delicatessen!"
Because I don't see any difference between the two situations-- either software should be accessible or it shouldn't. If it should, if we as a society value that quality, that it's perfectly justifiable to criticize software for not being accessible.
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What about Kitty Dukakis? Her, too?
Obviously. Although the joke would've been even better had you picked, say, Ted Kennedy.
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I'm not saying there's no point to fixing it, I'm saying there's NO CHANCE the fix would be accepted.
I would actually use such a thing as the crude GUI you drew before, if it existed and I used Git.
I actually have written tools just like that a couple of times because I don't love griping so much more than doing things that I refuse to help myself.
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"Their refusal to learn how to walk up stairs should disqualify them from entering that delicatessen!"
What if the deli happens to be housed in an ancient building owned by someone else, that a wheelchair can't even fit into[1]?
[1] Actual example.
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What if the deli happens to be housed in an ancient building owned by someone else, that a wheelchair can't even fit into[1]?
That's easy. If the building isn't accessible to everyone, it's
and must be destroyed.
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What if the deli happens to be housed in an ancient building owned by someone else, that a wheelchair can't even fit into[1]?
If you have a building that's like 2' wide and a wheelchair literally can't fit in it, I highly doubt a deli would.
So thank you for that "actual example" which makes no goddamned sense, now please die.
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Because I don't see any difference between the two situations-- either software should be accessible or it shouldn't.
We know that. But there's a continuum and not even one that anyone can agree upon. As we make your argument more absurd, we'll start ranting about how you're a terrible person if you release software that doesn't support Euskara speakers.
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@boomzilla said:
What about Kitty Dukakis? Her, too?
Obviously. Although the joke would've been even better had you picked, say, Ted Kennedy.
I started along those lines but it would have been Mary Jo Kopechne.
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That's easy. If the building isn't accessible to everyone, it's and must be destroyed.
That's actually (IIRC) what happened. In any event the restaurant closed because they couldn't afford to rebuild the place to suit someone who would never have gone in there on his own.
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If the goal is "fuck everybody, nobody should use it but me and people exactly like me", then I guess disregard. Otherwise, I already answered your question.
Nope. Almost all developers are happy using the command line. So, why would I waste time to implement a GUI that nearly nobody would use?
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I still want an explanation of how a deli fit in a building that wasn't large enough for a wheelchair. That's some real Dr Who TARDIS shit man.
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Nope. Almost all developers are happy using the command line. So, why would I waste time to implement a GUI that nearly nobody would use?
Have you ever heard the phrase "self-fulfilling prophecy"?
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If you have a building that's like 2' wide and a wheelchair literally can't fit in it, I highly doubt a deli would.
So thank you for that "actual example" which makes no goddamned sense, now please die.
You first, pustule.
http://madriverunion.com/ada-beef-closes-barbecue-restaurant/
ADA suits close another beloved eatery - Overlawyered
Once again it’s happening in central California: “After more than 40 years in business, Roy’s Drive-In in Salinas is closing — in part because the owner can’t afford a lawsuit that accuses him of violating the Americans with Disabilities Act.” Jarek Molski of Woodland Hills in southern California,...
Oh, wait, what's with this last one? "Built in the 1950s, Roy’s Drive-In does not have ramps to access the windows and restrooms, but employees say the business is accessible to all of their customers — including the disabled,” through car-hop service." The restaurant offered to make extra effort to help people who couldn't get into the building.
Two target Merced County businesses over ADA violations, costing tens of thousands
Some call him a champion for the disabled. Others say he is an extortionist.
“I just wish we had a warning. I wish he talked to us first,” Chavez said. “I understand it was not compliant, but if someone had just come to us and said we have to fix it by a certain date, we would have done it.”
“It’s very unfortunate he had to do it this way,” he added. “We’re a small business and it really hurt us.”
Shaw’s attorney said “discussions don’t work” and he has zero sympathy for business
owners such as Chavez. He has no problem suing thousands more businesses if it forces them to comply with the law, even if it means permanently shutting their doors.Find as many more as you like, if you can make your poor crippled hand work.
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I started along those lines but it would have been Mary Jo Kopechne.
I thought of that but decided to leave it to you.
Why should being dead be a
to employment?
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I still want an explanation of how a deli fit in a building that wasn't large enough for a wheelchair.
I couldn't find the particular story I was working on. Since my memory for shit I read ten years ago is about as good as yours at remembering the names of restaurants you've eaten at 15 years ago, I had trouble. It might've been that the building was really narrow back-to-front and increasing the aisle space would've left no place for booths, I dunno. If it's important to you, instead of just as a way to pretend to invalidate the other side, you can probably find it yourself.
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And IDE isn't an ancient building that cannot be altered.
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An IDE also isn't subject to American Dental Association restrictions on wheelchairs.
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He has no problem suing
Isn't he just the hero of people that don't seem to exist.
A lawyer that has no problem suing. Story end.
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Almost all developers are happy using the command line. So, why would I waste time to implement a GUI that nearly nobody would use?
I suspect that many developers are capable of using the command line but would prefer a well designed GUI where possible. I'm probably not representative because I'm much more on the GUI side of the spectrum, but I would only switch to a CLI solution if it was considerably faster or easier than the GUI. Mostly, CLI tools are neither.
The only time I drop to CMD is when I need my local IP address. I'm not actually sure how you get it without
ipconfig
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Yeah, I'm pretty much the opposite of that
I use command line tools whenever possible because to me, they're faster. And I suspect many agree on that point.
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I guess github is a paradox.
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Yeah, I'm pretty much the opposite of that
So we're both assuming most developers are pretty much like us and neither of us have any proof either way. Which means we should both STFU until we aren't just pulling opinions out of our arses
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I mostly use GitHub for Windows as an easy way of auto-updating and opening a git CLI.
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I use command line tools whenever possible because to me, they're faster. And I suspect many agree on that point.
Go for it. Did I ever say you shouldn't use whatever UI works best for you?
Whatever you're trying to argue here seems to have nothing to do with what I or Jaloopa are saying.
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I worked from a business model that only ever needed the github gui.
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That is a bit clunky to get to, but OTOH I found it with just the screenshot, which is more than I can do when someone posts some CLI output and expects it to make sense
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No, but you're telling me developers should add GUIs to their programs, when for most other developers, there's no reason to. That's a lot of work, code, and time that you really don't need to spend to support 1% of users.
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Hey, I've been using the git CLI since before GitHub for Windows existed. Most of what I do is probably doable within the GUI, but I learned the CLI and it would be wasted extra work to learn the GUI as well since the CLI still works.
