This systemd thing is really out of hand.
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So Windows never crashes, except for when it does? Also, what about the times that Windows crashes and it is not hardware related? Because lots of us have had that happen.
Windows does crash, and it is not always the hardware to blame.
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experiment:
- write a kernel/device driver (or otherwise elevate a process so that memory segmentation is not enforced)
- instruct such program to random walk throughout all addressable memory, writing 0 bytes everywhere it steps
- wait for computer to crash
this will happen on Windows, Linux, OSX, Android, and indeed any computer. and the crash will not be hardware related
this is the same sort of crash that we get when device drivers (even those written by MS or have passed WHQL (or whatever that certification process is called)) go rogue for any number of reasons, up to an including an inopportune decay of a thorium atom in the IC packaging that changed a bit of memory or executing instruction (which btw radioactive thorium is absolutely EVERYWHERE it just decays via alpha decay and is relatively low concentration so there's no real health risk, but it can mess up computers)
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@Intercourse said:
Also, what about the times that Windows crashes and it is not hardware related? Because lots of us have had that happen.
Prove it to me.
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@blakeyrat said:
Well maybe you just need better developers. Windows doesn't crash.
?
It's a blakeyfail, which may be a good entry for Discopedia.
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Prove it to me.
Your assertion sounds more extraordinary. And anyways, no one believes you.
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Even Microsoft doesn't make that claim:
These errors can be caused by both hardware and software issues, and it can be difficult to troubleshoot the problem. The following tools and methods can often help get Windows up and running again.
(emphasis mine).
Here's an example of McAfee causing bluescreens in Windows 7: http://superuser.com/questions/326981/how-to-know-what-was-the-reason-of-this-bluescreen-error
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These errors can be caused by both hardware and software issues,
Right; third-party software. Not anything that ships in Windows itself.
McAfee can crash Windows? Duuuh. That says nothing. The only interesting thing is: can Windows crash Windows?
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Here's an example of McAfee causing bluescreens in Windows 7: http://superuser.com/questions/326981/how-to-know-what-was-the-reason-of-this-bluescreen-error
INB4 HAHA old version doesn't count.
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@blakeyrat said:
All OSes crash when paired with unreliable broken hardware. That's the only reason Windows NT crashes, and has been for... a solid decade now.
Right; third-party software. Not anything that ships in Windows itself.
McAfee can crash Windows? Duuuh. That says nothing.
OK then.
WTF Discourse? Those were both Blakeyrat quotes.
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from this i can conclude that someone's been drinking the koolaid a little heavily lately...
There are none so blind as they that won't see.
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Windows doesn't crash!
Right, Windows only crashes due to bad hardware.
Oh...Windows only crashes due to bad hardware and third party software!
Um, I'll come in again...
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Hilarious.
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I still haven't figured out why my computer is reducing its audio volume by 90% randomly and then putting it back to normal. The color correction corruption hasn't happened since the reinstall of Windows, at least.
You're in a phone call. A really, really short phone call, with no ringtone.(Hint: the Communications tab of Sound settings)
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(Hint: the Communications tab of Sound settings)
He already said that's not it:
I had the "When Windows detects communications activity" setting shown above set to "Do nothing".
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As I said, Windows doesn't crash, unless it does, then it is not Windows' fault.
So basically, what you are saying is that if you install Windows on perfect hardware and use it for fucking nothing, that it will not crash? Just start it up with a base install, install no additional software, and just let it sit there and run, it will never crash?
Got it. Just don't use Windows, and it will not crash. You know, until you hit the 60+ day mark when it will just shit itself because it needs a reboot?
@blakeyrat, what you said was just wrong. I know this is hard for you to believe, but we all make mistakes or misspeak. It happens. Just own up to it. Quit being a douchenozzle.
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@Intercourse said:
You know, until you hit the 60+ day mark when it will just shit itself because it needs a reboot?
Prove it.
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How the fuck do you want me to prove it? Windows machines become unstable after 60 days. They slow down appreciably.
You just constantly move goalposts to make yourself seem right. You retreat in to this cycle of "Prove it". Your persona needs a fucking shrink. Your persona is off the rails.
No, I cannot prove that your persona needs a shrink. I am not a psychiatrist and what I was saying was hyperbole for comedic intent.
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He already said that's not it:
I had no way of knowing, because notifications.muted.reasons.0_7. I apologize for my lack of omnicience.
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INB4 HAHA old version doesn't count.
That would not be applicable here as @blakeyrat already said:
All OSes crash when paired with unreliable broken hardware. That's the only reason Windows NT crashes, and has been for... a solid decade now.
Of course, if you actually read the whole quote it would kind of seem to negate what @blakeyrat said about 3rd party software being able to crash Windows. As he said, the only reason Windows crashes is because of "unreliable broken hardware".
Of course, now he will just move the goalpost again and accuse me of putting words in his mouth.
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@Intercourse said:
Of course, now he will just move the goalpost again and accuse me of putting words in his mouth
Prove it.
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Prove it.
Hey! I have a great idea here...
Windows doesn't crash.
Prove it.
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@Intercourse said:
That would not be applicable here as @blakeyrat already said:
I remembered him saying that, but I was giving him a chance to move the goal posts again.
Proof:
All OSes crash when paired with unreliable broken hardware. That's the only reason Windows NT crashes, and has been for... a solid decade now.
Windows 7 is less than 10 years old, so applying that logic would be moving the goal posts. QED.
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Windows 7 is less than 10 years old, so applying that logic would be moving the goal posts. QED.
And I was trying to goad him in to it. We are overdue for an extended diatribe calling us all pedantic pricks and raving about how this whole place sucks now that there are new users here, etc.
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@Intercourse said:
We are overdue for an extended diatribe calling us all pedantic pricks
Which would be especially tasty given his new badge.
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I still haven't figured out why my computer is reducing its audio volume by 90% randomly and then putting it back to normal.
Does this help?
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ls -rt /var/log/syslog* | xargs zcat | grep blah | less
zgrep blah /var/log/syslog* | less
Of if you really want the results in chronological order
zgrep blah `ls -rt /var/log/syslog*` | less
Or if you really want to use xargs
ls -rt /var/log/syslog* | xargs zgrep blah | less
Either way, don't grep your cats.
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I don’t see why binary logs would be more corruption-prone that text logs. Maybe the current implementation in systemd is broken, but after all databases store their data in binary format, and they usually are more resilient than flat text files...
Well, I suspect you answered the question yourself.
I've seen any number of Internet games: galactic bloodshed, old MUDs, and so on, eventually shit themselves because of database corruption; presumably due to undiagnosed bugs.
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Does this help?
He already said that's not it:
@ben_lubar said:I had the "When Windows detects communications activity" setting shown above set to "Do nothing".
nope
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the inherent problems with race conditions unless you do lots of locking
That's what serialization is for, heh. Sure, it's extra work, but if you don't want race conditions...
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Race conditions WITH locking are even worse.
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@Intercourse said:
Windows does crash, and it is not always the hardware to blame.
Another "common" reason is bad drivers.
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You need to wait until @blakeyrat moves the goal post before you give him more reasons. ;)
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ls -rt /var/log/syslog* | xargs grep blah | less
i think you wanted this:
ls -rt /var/log/syslog* | xargs zgrep blah | less
just guessing anyway. ;-)
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@Intercourse said:
You know, until you hit the 60+ day mark when it will just shit itself because it needs a reboot?
60+ days? I've never had my computer ask for a reboot more than 7 days after it booted.
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i manage 90 days regularly on my win7 machine at work... but it definitely is a very unhappy machine towards the end there...
my win8 machines are not always on but i've occasionally gotten 10 days out of them during a render run before they were force rebooted by windows update.
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You people have an unhealthy obsession with Blakeyrat.
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60+ days? I've never had my computer ask for a reboot more than 7 days after it booted.
I was talking about servers, you are certainly correct about workstations though. I usually turn off Windows Updates (yeah, yeah, I know. It is a calculated risk on my part and has not bit me yet.) and can get 45 days or so out of my primary workstation before it needs a reboot. Servers would be much the same except that if it is does not have ports open to the outside world it is not as critical to install all updates the moment they come out.
Of course, @blakeyrat will come along any moment now ranting about "Patch Tuesday! Patch Tuesday! They only release updates that require a reboot once a month! You are all liars, you should not have to reboot more than once a month!"
Fun fact, we picked up one of our clients because the IT support they had before was having performance issues with a server and could not figure it out. We were called in and rebooted the server that had been up for ~5 months and had slowed to a crawl. Problem solved. That little anecdote illustrates how Windows chokes with long uptimes and also just how damned incompetent some sysadmins are.
i manage 90 days regularly on my win7 machine at work... but it definitely is a very unhappy machine towards the end there...
That is roughly the limit I have seen also. Our HTPCs here at our house run Win7 and around the 60-90 day mark they will start slowing down drastically, stuttering menus, dropped frames in video, etc.
But of course, this is all anecdotal evidence and proves nothing... ;)
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I've not had this problem in a while, though I can't imagine they've only fixed it for the SRTv1?
My guess is that's it's related to the chip they stuck into the SP3. On first boot, I couldn't connect to any Wifi (if I read the event log correctly, the Wifi driver crashed at each attempt to connect to the particular networks I tried). That problem was fixed by the first set of updates, but I'd imagine that there are still some bugs left in that driver.
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You people have an unhealthy obsession with Blakeyrat.
Nah. It is just that sometimes it feels wonderful to prove someone wrong who acts as though he knows everything.
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You people have an unhealthy obsession with Blakeyrat.
I agree. It's like my unhealthy obsession with a rock when it gets into my shoe.
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I've never used a Windows server. The only reason I use Windows at all is that lots of game devs (I'm looking at you, Bethesda) don't have cross-platform games. ArenaNET's Mac client for Guild Wars 2 is literally the Windows client prepackaged with Wine.
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I agree. It's like my unhealthy obsession with a rock when it gets into my shoe.
I would have went with hemorrhoid.
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Hilarious.
I take the lack of frothing-at-the-mouth swearing as an admission you moved the goalposts.
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@Intercourse said:
I would have went with hemorrhoid.
Good point, especially with my current flare up. I'm so ashamed.
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@Intercourse said:
Windows machines become unstable after 60 days. They slow down appreciably.
This is less true with new OS versions.
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Race conditions WITH locking are even worse.
I didn't say locking, I said serialization. You have one thread responsible for all writes; other threads hand it text and say 'please add this to the log file'. The one thread does that, in order.
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60+ days? I've never had my computer ask for a reboot more than 7 days after it booted.
I don't keep track but I can get 2+weeks easily out of Windows 8.