The Official Status Thread
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@gąska said in The Official Status Thread:
It's like when watching Family Feud, and they accidentally asked the question that's factual and actually has some right answers and other answers are wrong, and the top scoring answer is the wrong one.
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@e4tmyl33t speaking of OCD and perfectionism - why's the Wikipedia article titled "Seven Dwarfs"!? That's not how you make plurals
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@gąska Yes it is.
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@e4tmyl33t said in The Official Status Thread:
@gąska said in The Official Status Thread:
It's like when watching Family Feud, and they accidentally asked the question that's factual and actually has some right answers and other answers are wrong, and the top scoring answer is the wrong one.
I've never met them, and if I did I probably wouldn't ask them that...
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@pie_flavor I don't care the wrong form has been forever engraved in official dictionaries. It's still wrong!
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@gąska said in The Official Status Thread:
Status: My OCD and perfectionism makes me fail photo captchas. "Select squares where traffic signs are visible" - okay... but including this one on left that captured 1mm edge of the sign too, or should I skip that?
When I was a kid and watched Gremlins there's this thing that you shouldn't feed the little disgusting monster after midnight and I was like 6 years old and I asked "isn't it always after midnight?" and anyway I get you.
For the record, it is always after midnight.
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@blakeyrat said in The Official Status Thread:
For the record, it is always after midnight.
Without further qualification, you're not wrong...
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@tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Without further qualification, you're not wrong...
The film does not further qualify it.
But what bugged me more is everybody in the film just takes it at face-value and nobody asks, "after midnight, but before... when?" because isn't that the critical question.
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@gąska So what you are saying is that despite the fact that every dictionary lists 'dwarfs' as the plural of 'dwarf', and 'dwarfs' has been around far longer than 'dwarves', they are all wrong and you are right
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@blakeyrat a lot of time-related human language assumes every person sleeps somewhere between evening and dawn, so most words are relative to when they last woke up, or sunrise. Which makes the Jews' idea of measuring days from sunset to sunset that much more stupid.
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@pie_flavor This boils down to usage, and usage is pretty much the movie title. If Disney said "dwarves", that's it, game over.
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@ben_lubar That's why I said topology :)
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@pie_flavor said in The Official Status Thread:
@gąska So what you are saying is that despite the fact that every dictionary lists 'dwarfs' as the plural of 'dwarf', and 'dwarfs' has been around far longer than 'dwarves', they are all wrong and you are right
Unless "dwarfs" is older than both "leaves" and "lives" and every other noun that ends with -f in singular but -ves in plural, whoever first came up with the word "dwarfs" was still wrong. Why have grammar rules if no one gives a shit?
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@gąska said in The Official Status Thread:
Unless "dwarfs" is older than both "leaves" and "lives" and every other noun that ends with -f in singular but -ves in plural, whoever first came up with the word "dwarfs" was still wrong. Why have grammar rules if no one gives a shit?
What's fun is that the plural of "mouse" if you're referring to the animal is "mice", but the plural of "mouse" if you're referring to the computer peripheral is "mouses". Because a word earns its pluralization scheme when it's invented and it never gets updated afterwards.
Apparently "dwarf" wasn't an English word until 1770, well into the modern pluralization rules. So "dwarfs" is correct. "Dwarves" is apparently some thing Tolkien made up.
NOW YOU KNOW.
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@gąska There are no grammar rules in English.
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Hmm... General tendency of English-speaking people not to follow grammar rules might be the reason why Shakespeare's plays look like a foreign ancient language, while the works of his contemporary, Polish poet Jan Kochanowski, are perfectly legible to every 5th grader, if a bit weird.
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@gąska I believe I'd have found his works difficult at 5th grade.
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@blakeyrat said in The Official Status Thread:
@gąska said in The Official Status Thread:
Unless "dwarfs" is older than both "leaves" and "lives" and every other noun that ends with -f in singular but -ves in plural, whoever first came up with the word "dwarfs" was still wrong. Why have grammar rules if no one gives a shit?
What's fun is that the plural of "mouse" if you're referring to the animal is "mice", but the plural of "mouse" if you're referring to the computer peripheral is "mouses". Because a word earns its pluralization scheme when it's invented and it never gets updated afterwards.
It does in sane languages.
Apparently "dwarf" wasn't an English word until 1770
Google Books has a record of the word "dwarf" being used in English literature way back in 1634.
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@gribnit said in The Official Status Thread:
@gąska I believe I'd have found his works difficult at 5th grade.
And we had to memorize entire poems of his. Although I must say the themes weren't particularly difficult - God is beautiful, people are hypocrites, and I'm so sad because my daughter died.
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@gąska That's the other word "dwarf", a shorter-than-normal person. Not the fantasy creature "dwarf".
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@gribnit said in The Official Status Thread:
@gąska There are no grammar rules in English.
All grammar rules in English have exceptions. And exceptions to those exceptions.
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@dcon You maintain it, then, you seem willing to acknowledge it exists.
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@gribnit said in The Official Status Thread:
@dcon You maintain it, then, you seem willing to acknowledge it exists.
Program terminated: Uncaught exception
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@blakeyrat said in The Official Status Thread:
@gąska That's the other word "dwarf", a shorter-than-normal person. Not the fantasy creature "dwarf".
In Polish, single words can have multiple meanings. In English, apparently they can't, and every instance where a single combination of letters can be interpreted in two ways, is actually two words that are written and spoken the same, but are otherwise unrelated to each other. Or maybe English has a combination of single words with multiple meaning and multiple identical distinct words, and the only way to know is consult the language specification and read up which are which.
But that's all miniscule technicalities. The point is, English language makes no sense.
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@gąska Need to get it rooted in something unambiguous like set theory.
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@gribnit good geek joke.
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@gąska Damn! I was hoping for you to uselessly expend a lifetime's worth of perfectly good brain on the labor of sisyphus.
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@gąska said in The Official Status Thread:
In Polish, single words can have multiple meanings.
Sure of course.
@gąska said in The Official Status Thread:
In English, apparently they can't, and every instance where a single combination of letters can be interpreted in two ways, is actually two words that are written and spoken the same, but are otherwise unrelated to each other.
I think it's all about your perception.
"Dwarf" and "dwarf" are two different words referring to two different things coined at two different times. Ditto that with "mouse" and "mouse". Does being spelled and pronounced the same make it the same word? I dunno. One for the philosophers.
But when it comes to understanding why the plural of "mouse" is "mice" and the plural of "mouse" is "mouses", it's a hell of a lot easier to say, "look, it's because they're two totally different words, one coined in antiquity and one in the 1970s" and that takes care of it. Because English does have rules. Yes they're complicated and stupid and the 1970s version of the rules is utterly different from the < 17th century version of the rules, but dammit: there are rules!
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@blakeyrat Except for the IO device being explicitly named after the rodent, sure. By which I mean "named after" excluding the meaning "having been named at a later point in time" (while of course also requiring it).
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@blakeyrat it would make sense, if not for the fact one is directly descendant from the other.
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@gąska said in The Official Status Thread:
Why have grammar rules if no one gives a shit?
English in a nutshell. Doesn't make you right.
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@gribnit said in The Official Status Thread:
@blakeyrat Except for the IO device being explicitly named after the rodent, sure.
The spaceship Enterprise was named after the aircraft carrier Enterprise, does that mean they're the same thing?
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@blakeyrat Wrong, actually.
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@blakeyrat They're probably pluralized the same.
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@blakeyrat FWIW, I've only ever heard "computer mice".
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@pie_flavor said in The Official Status Thread:
Wrong, actually.
Yes yes I'm wrong and stupid about everything forever, remember? Geez.
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@pie_flavor said in The Official Status Thread:
@blakeyrat FWIW, I've only ever heard "computer mice".
Yeah I see a lot of mispellings too. That doesn't make them not mispellings.
But I'm sure I'm wrong and stupid about that too.
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@blakeyrat said in The Official Status Thread:
@pie_flavor said in The Official Status Thread:
Wrong, actually.
Yes yes I'm wrong and stupid about everything forever, remember? Geez.
why do I bother fucking talking to you
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@blakeyrat said in The Official Status Thread:
@pie_flavor said in The Official Status Thread:
@blakeyrat FWIW, I've only ever heard "computer mice".
Yeah I see a lot of mispellings too. That doesn't make them not mispellings.
Until it does. Which happens a lot in English.
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@pie_flavor said in The Official Status Thread:
@blakeyrat FWIW, I've only ever heard "computer mice".
FWIW, I have been using computers since before the (computer) mouse was invented, and I have never heard anyone say "mouses." Ever.
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@hardwaregeek said in The Official Status Thread:
I have never heard anyone say "mouses." Ever.
This. I was scratching my head thinking I'm the dumb one....
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@hardwaregeek So everybody you know is wrong. AND YET...
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@pie_flavor said in The Official Status Thread:
lolwut
The phone doesn't have this capability at all! In 2018! This incredibly simple capability does not exist anywhere on the phone! Like, I know of apps that do it, but I don't like those apps' manufacturers, so the capability exists nowhere on the phone at all. Wharrgarbl.It's not Android, and it's not an app (I'm not sure there are app APIs to do it). It's TouchWiz and I'll second the "Fuck that."
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@blakeyrat You appear to be defending
mouses
as the correct spelling for computer mice. This is incorrect.Mouses
applies to cartoon mice.Computer mice
is also incorrect unless used as disambiguation in a situation which calls for it.
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@gribnit said in The Official Status Thread:
@blakeyrat You appear to be defending
mouses
as the correct spelling for computer mice. This is incorrect.Mouses
applies to cartoon mice.Computer mice
is also incorrect unless used as disambiguation in a situation which calls for it.in lojban,
smacu
meansmouse
andpevysmacu
means"mouse"
, as incomputer mouse
.
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@heterodox It is Android, and it is an app. The capability exists within Android to use whatever the fuck launcher you want to; TouchWiz is simply one example of a launcher. If that launcher creates an API that apps can use, then the apps (such as Samsung Email) can use it. These two things come together to form an email app showing an unread counter.
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@ben_lubar Okay.
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@pie_flavor said in The Official Status Thread:
@ben_lubar Okay.
Do you want me to define
jbojevysofkemsuzgugje'ake'eborkemfaipaltrusi'oke'ekemgubyseltru
orzdalatukuuerpo'alegriiamakarenaketukuuerpo'espadarle'alegriiakosabuuenadalatukuuerpo'alegriiamakarena'eimakarena
next?
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@pie_flavor said in The Official Status Thread:
TouchWiz is simply one example of a launcher
It's not just a Launcher, otherwise you could just download it from the App store.
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@ben_lubar Should I find even one Lojban identifier in the wild I will assign the blame for it to you.