On pronouns and sex
-
There are very few words in lojban that have a gender, and all the words that do have a neuter alternative.
-
There are very few words in lojban that have a gender
For all intensive porpoises, English has no gendered words at all. Except for the gendered pronouns and possessives, that is, and there are always accepted gender-neutral alternatives.
-
-
@RaceProUK said:
and there are always accepted gender-neutral alternatives
Like "he"
You dropped a
-
What about profession words like "mailman" or "waiter"?
-
Postman in England.
Waiter/actor etc. are considered gender-neutral, and the -ess versions are out of favour, Ones with Man in them are generally accepted to not specifically refer to the type of man with a penis
-
How about "mother"? Or "son"? Or even something like "Robert"?
-
How about "mother"? Or "son"?
Weirdly, still gender neutral. English is a non-gendered language; the gender is of the subject, not the word.
@ben_lubar said:Or even something like "Robert"?
Carroll Shelby? Leslie Nielsen?
-
It doesn't change the inflection of the noun to assign the name Robert to a female person. Nor does changing the name Roberta to Robert inherently change the pronoun that has to agree with the noun's gender; it's the person's sociological gender, not the grammatical gender of the word, that matters here. You no longer say things like, to use an example from Wiki, "The shield was good, and I loved her.", matching the pronoun to the grammatical gender of the word Shield rather than the actual implied gender of the object (which is neuter).
Or, to put it more succinctly,
the gender is of the subject, not the word.
More fun facts from Wiki:
The grammatical gender of a noun does not always coincide with its natural gender. An example of this is the German word Mädchen ("girl"); this is derived from Magd "maidservant" with the diminutive suffix -chen, and this suffix always makes the noun grammatically neuter. Hence the grammatical gender of Mädchen is neuter, although its natural gender is feminine (because it refers to a female person).
Other examples include:- Old English wīf (neuter) and wīfmann (masculine), meaning "woman"
- German Weib (neuter), meaning "woman" (the word is now pejorative and generally replaced with 'die Frau', originally 'lady', fem. of obsolete 'der Fro', meaning 'lord')
- Irish cailÃn (masculine) meaning "girl", and stail (feminine) meaning "stallion"
- Scottish Gaelic boireannach (masculine), meaning "woman"
- Slovenian dekle (neuter), meaning "girl"
- Portuguese mulherão (masculine), meaning "voluptuous woman"
-
OK, people have been arguing this at you and it is obvious that you are conflating different kinds of gender here (subject/word). Have you studied a real language other than English? Many that would have been made available (due to US) in your school system should have had that difference so I'm wondering if this is just trolling or honest confusion.
-
chen, and this suffix always makes the noun grammatically neuter
"Eunuchen", "wallachen", "kastratchen"... TIL. All neutered. :-)
-
Mädchen
Makes me think of Japan.
Speaking of which, over there, you just use jibun as all your pronouns to be gender neutral.
-
-
Because using the female pronoun cross-threads me, knowing that there's a male under the persona.
I think @accalia is aware of my personal convictions, but I still have no problem being civil with her.
But I think that has to do with the fact that I play both genders in MMOs. It's about 50/50, and I usually have a character of each race, even in games like CO where race can only be identified by looks, as in real life.
Whether that makes me cross gender or not, meh. I prefer to stick by my convictions and perform as the male gender role. I do have some difficulty doing that, but I refuse to act out all my desires as that would not be healthy, especially since I'm married to my wife. And yet, leftists give me shit for that personal choice, very loudly, as if I'm a threat to them.
Side note: does it make me cross race, to RP as a black person? And yes, someone did make racist remarks to my avatar. But it's better to not acknowledge them. The population at large did not care.But that experience does enable me to treat internet personas as whatever gender they identify as.
I think it's healthy to be able to follow your convictions without someone forcing you to act on theirs, as well as being able to discuss your convictions with each other and not get offended.
And as far as that goes, @accalia has really maturely handled all discussions of it.
-
does it make me cross race, to RP as a black person?
Lol, if roleplay counts I'm male, female, neuter, gay, straight, bisexual, a dragon, a catfolk, a lizardfolk, an alien, a serial rapist/murderer, queen of an empire spanning multiple planets, a toddler, a god, an agendered asexual golem.....
Gender identity is different than roleplay.
-
So… you're panmorphic?
-
queen of an empire spanning multiple planets
That one is oddly believable.
If we're going for "what I feel I am" as in gender, and not "what I actually am" as in genetics.
:P
-
I won't lie, Jen's very similar to my "dominatrix of debugging" personality :)
-
I think @accalia is aware of my personal convictions, but I still have no problem being civil with her.
Thank you,
Although i would like to just make it clear on record that I did not mean to imply that @Frostcat was anything other than civil, and if that implication came across it was completely unintentional. @Frostcat was indeed quite civil in the matter. While it was his phrase choice that made me open this thread it was for the purpose of gaining more information on his reasoning for the phrase choice, not any desire to rebuke or censure.
Whether that makes me cross gender or not, meh.
As far as i'm concerned that only makes you crossgendered if you feel it does. In Role Playing games it's quite common to play genders/races/species that differ from the player's real one for any number of a thousand and one different reasons. All those reasons are valid, but none of them have any bearing on whether the player is crossgendered/race/species unless the player themselves feels they do.
It's rare that @blakeyrat and I agree on a matter, but i've got to say this is one of them.
People are what they say they are. That applies to names, genders, sexual orientations, etc. Don't overthink it.
That I will happily Quote For Truth.
And as far as that goes, @accalia has really maturely handled all discussions of it.
That's a nice change from recent events. I've certainly behaved rather immaturely in several other discussions lately, a fact i wish i had recognized before i acted, and one i will be more carefully on the look out in future.
-
-
-
-
-
It seems that those leftists @xaade ran into have no belgium‌ing clue what the letters 'RP' in the acronym "MMORPG" stand for. Some of us actually try to take them seriously, even when online. (Besides, they've probably never met a DM who's actually had people wear robes and say and sign the verbal and somatic components for their spells, at a regular D&D table (not even a LARP)!)
Also, yes... @blakeyrat hit the nail on the head. (If you try to do otherwise, I'd just present you with an individual from an asexually-reproducing golem-like fantasy species...and watch your head spin :P Having to invent new pronouns and honorifics is fun...)
-
There is a variety of people for whom RP cannot exist, because what you say is what you are in real life always. But to be fair, there are also people who will fight to the death anyone who dares debbreviate RP as anything other than Roll Play.
-
There is a variety of people for whom RP cannot exist, because what you say is what you are in real life always.
Sheesh. Have those folks ever taken an acting class in their life?! Can they tell a TV character from the actor playing them?!But to be fair, there are also people who will fight to the death anyone who dares debbreviate RP as anything other than Roll Play.
Systems vary quite a bit in "crunch" if you will -- D&D has always been somewhat towards the heavier end, albeit not nearly as crunchy as a simulationism-driven system such as GURPS. OTOH: narrativism-driven systems like FATE and its relatives get along just fine with only the occasional roll here or there.
-
Sheesh. Have those folks ever taken an acting class in their life?! Can they tell a TV character from the actor playing them?!
Call of Duty is the direct cause of school shootings, as everyone knows.
Systems vary quite a bit in "crunch" if you will -- D&D has always been somewhat towards the heavier end, albeit not nearly as crunchy as a simulationism-driven system such as GURPS. OTOH: narrativism-driven systems like FATE and its relatives get along just fine with only the occasional roll here or there.
I know that the alternate debbreviations can both be used to mean different things, and are therefore useful. But some people get mad when that's suggested.
-
Systems vary quite a bit in "crunch"
They do, but that isn't really what I tend to take from
Roll Play
I mean yes those players tend to like "crunchy" systems, but the reason is that those who get stuck with that derisive label focus on turning the game more into a combat/mechanics tactics game than narrative driven.
-
I mean yes those players tend to like "crunchy" systems, but the reason is that those who get stuck with that derisive label focus on turning the game more into a combat/mechanics tactics game than narrative driven.
Something interesting happens when you go full simulationist, though -- stories start to emerge from the interactions within the mechanics. (EVE Online's strong emergent-story properties, some of the strongest in the MMO sphere, come from a combination of that effect and the PvP nature of the game.)
-
Lol, if roleplay counts...
I should bl**dy well hope it doesn't, the last being I did any RP as was Foul Old Ron.
-
Millennium hand and shrimp
-
I told them, I told them i did. bugger it.
-
I know that the alternate debbreviations can both be used to mean different things, and are therefore useful. But some people get mad when that's suggested.
You should know better than to use crazy moon language with those people. I guess you do, but you don't care. Good for you.
-
-
bites Discourse's ankles
that's not nice!
also i accept the correction. it's beenj a while since i reread a book with ron in it and i forgot that it was "censored by contraction"
-
-
@Magus said:
There is a variety of people for whom RP cannot exist, because what you say is what you are in real life always.
Can they tell a TV character from the actor playing them?!I know people who won't read fiction because it never actually happened.
-
I know people who won't read fiction because it never actually happened.
Just a WAG here, but do they read the Bible and see no problem with that?
-
Just a WAG here, but do they read the Bible and see no problem with that?
Actually, no. More sport autobiographies.
-
How about "mother"? Or "son"? Or even something like "Robert"?
In the UK we have a politician called Harriet Harman, who used to be "Equalities Minister."
Her name, among her detractors, gets deliberately misspelt as Harriet Harperson
man.I feel they don't go far enough and it should be Harriet Harperchild
son
-
@Jaloopa said:
Just a WAG here, but do they read the Bible and see no problem with that?
Actually, no. More sport autobiographies.
And they still claim they don't read fiction?
-
I know people who won't read fiction because it never actually happened.
Yeah, what a sad lot they are -- while I generally don't read long-form fiction, that is for rather different reasons, though.