Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!
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@Lorne-Kates said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
@galgorah said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
Presentation is not a DBAs job
Knowing the entire system they are working with is their job. For all intensive porpoises, PHP is coupled with MySQL. If the "superhero experts" who see all, know all, are clairvoyant and work your system end to end don't know the Web, they're fucking useless. They provide, in their own words, "Extraordinary help".
Hey Cybershitter, what sort of hardware should I provision to keep up the load on both Apache and MySQL.
duh idunnoFine. Cumdumpress, what backup schedule will I need to support the comment system in order to provide a reasonable assurance of data continuity?
tee wee {knowing wink} i liek databassUhg. Token Vaguely Colored Girl: You're an "ultra-brain" with knowledge of ALL technology. Am I going to run into bandwidth issues with mobile browsers using webservices?
i can haz database? i solve everything as long as it is database!Goddamn it. Captain Constipated the Confused. You're able to forsee literally all problems before they happen! Tell me what format of data the front-end should take to best scale over the next ten years.
{hurk} my ass is full of cementUseless. Every one of you. Should I even bother with Furry the Perv Pounder?
meow {poops on a server while yiffing a Linux penguin plushie}If you contract them for managed DBA services, they will stop after MySQL. a DBA does not need to understand how the front end work. I'm sorry you feel that way though. RDBMS are massively complicated, When you can explain finer points around concepts like data pages, memory clerks, cpu scheduling, indexes (clustered vs non clustered, spatial), storage optimization, parameter sniffing, etc, then you might begin to start to have a DBAs level of knowledge about RDBMS systems. Once you've got your data out of my system, I don't care how you display it. Saying a DBA should know front end technology is like saying a dentist should be able to perform open heart surgery.
The point is I would not hire this company as front end developers, Maybe though I would consider them for MySQL administration.
The only companies that do things the way you describe are very early stage startups. As soon as a company grows to more than 20 people things start to change and responsibilities divide.
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@galgorah said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
If you contract them for managed DBA services, they will stop after MySQL.
Which makes them bad at what they do, because they do not understand the data's lifecycle. Which they prove with their shitty, shitty website. Which makes me question their ability to do what they claim to be able to do.
I'm sorry you feel that way though.
I don't have to "feel" anything. Their website is provably shitty with facts.
RDBMS are massively complicated,
Yes they are, except:
- This is MySQL, so no one is doing anything complex with it
- They're not able to handle complex concepts like "standard HTML forms".
The point is I would not hire this company
jokesNeither would I.
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@galgorah said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
Plus headlights are a lot less complicated than a transmission is.
Pfft. Spoken like someone who never owned a car where you had to remove a wheel to replace a headlight.
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@galgorah said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
Saying a DBA should know front end technology is like saying a dentist should be able to perform open heart surgery.
Poor analogy. It's more like saying your brain surgeon should also be able to give you plastic surgery for your nose. Different surgical specialism but with the way round about right this time…
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@RaceProUK said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
there's only one candidate surely: Alfred.
Oh boy ... that means it's most likely some Mainframe-COBOL-IDMS hellhole.
Thanks, you just ruined the batcave for me!
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@Lorne-Kates said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
This is MySQL, so no one is doing anything complex with it
Oh, people do a lot of complex shit with it. That's partly why that shit is so complex.
You need to bring the full clusterfuck to the scene (redis, elasticsearch, lucene) and order gobs of extra hardware because oh scalability! and oh performance!, before it's even able to respond to you in seconds instead of minutes. Oh, did I mention cache invalidation problems and an expensive R&D department you need to hire to tackle them?
But hey, it's MySQL, it's so fucking good at teh performans, that they basically threw out a better half of the SQL standard to the trash, so they can brag about blazing fast SELECTs (which they are not).
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@Lorne-Kates said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
If the "superhero experts" who see all, know all, are clairvoyant and work your system end to end don't know the Web, they're fucking useless.
That may be true, but I don't understand how any of your quotes that follow demonstrate that.
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@wft said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
oh performance!
Is this “performance” as in “internet drama queen”?
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@boomzilla said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
@Lorne-Kates said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
If the "superhero experts" who see all, know all, are clairvoyant and work your system end to end don't know the Web, they're fucking useless.
That may be true, but I don't understand how any of your quotes that follow demonstrate that.
Each of them claim to be experts, including the front end, but none of them even know how a simple HTML form works, or how to do a website content search via SQL.
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@Lorne-Kates said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
Each of them claim to be experts, including the front end, but none of them even know how a simple HTML form works, or how to do a website content search via SQL.
So you're calling @Arantor a lying whore?
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@boomzilla said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
@Lorne-Kates said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
Each of them claim to be experts, including the front end, but none of them even know how a simple HTML form works, or how to do a website content search via SQL.
So you're calling @Arantor a lying whore?
Obviously.
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@galgorah said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
@Lorne-Kates said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
@galgorah said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
Presentation is not a DBAs job
Knowing the entire system they are working with is their job. For all intensive porpoises, PHP is coupled with MySQL. If the "superhero experts" who see all, know all, are clairvoyant and work your system end to end don't know the Web, they're fucking useless. They provide, in their own words, "Extraordinary help".
Hey Cybershitter, what sort of hardware should I provision to keep up the load on both Apache and MySQL.
duh idunnoFine. Cumdumpress, what backup schedule will I need to support the comment system in order to provide a reasonable assurance of data continuity?
tee wee {knowing wink} i liek databassUhg. Token Vaguely Colored Girl: You're an "ultra-brain" with knowledge of ALL technology. Am I going to run into bandwidth issues with mobile browsers using webservices?
i can haz database? i solve everything as long as it is database!Goddamn it. Captain Constipated the Confused. You're able to forsee literally all problems before they happen! Tell me what format of data the front-end should take to best scale over the next ten years.
{hurk} my ass is full of cementUseless. Every one of you. Should I even bother with Furry the Perv Pounder?
meow {poops on a server while yiffing a Linux penguin plushie}If you contract them for managed DBA services, they will stop after MySQL. a DBA does not need to understand how the front end work. I'm sorry you feel that way though. RDBMS are massively complicated, When you can explain finer points around concepts like data pages, memory clerks, cpu scheduling, indexes (clustered vs non clustered, spatial), storage optimization, parameter sniffing, etc, then you might begin to start to have a DBAs level of knowledge about RDBMS systems. Once you've got your data out of my system, I don't care how you display it. Saying a DBA should know front end technology is like saying a dentist should be able to perform open heart surgery.
The point is I would not hire this company as front end developers, Maybe though I would consider them for MySQL administration.
The only companies that do things the way you describe are very early stage startups. As soon as a company grows to more than 20 people things start to change and responsibilities divide.
It doesn't make them bad at all. If you want to contract someone or both, then look for a company that does both. The needs of the DB and the app layers are very very different. They both require specialized knowledge.
As for MySQL not being used for anything complicated, I think my Director would disagree, he led the MySQL team at twitter up until recently. I'd also disagree on the grounds that we have several complex systems running on MySQL. And we use it here as one of many systems involved in our various products.
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@boomzilla had this been maybe 8 years ago, we might have an issue because then, they didn't pull this shit and they knew what they were doing.
These days I can only conclude they're a bit (lot?) retarded. Though I wouldn't expect a DB expert to know how HTML works any more than I'd expect a good designer to know shit about databases.
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@galgorah said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
As for MySQL not being used for anything complicated,
There's going to be lots of complicated things being done with MySQL. It's just that they might be things that would be theoretically done better on another platform. Not that people should drop everything and switch (switching costs are very high) and the better platform might cost a lot of money too; some DB engines are really astoundingly expensive…
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@RaceProUK said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
only one candidate
Doubt it. If you add up all the labor it'd take to keep batman in business, I'm sure like half of Gotham is in on it. That's the real reason everyone tolerates his shit: Nobody wants to lose their jobs.
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@Arantor said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
Though I wouldn't expect a DB expert to know how HTML works any more than I'd expect a good designer to know shit about databases.
THEY CLAIM TO BE EXPERTS ON THE FULL LAMP STACK AND APPLICATION STACK!
This is their very own words, on their very own (shitty) webpage!
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@Lorne-Kates in which case, fuck 'em with a PHP shaped dildo.
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This post is deleted!
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@Arantor said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
fuck 'em with a PHP shaped dildo.
Nobody deserves that fate.
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@sloosecannon if they're experts, they can take it, right?
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@sloosecannon said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
Nobody deserves that fate.
Especially if it looks like this:
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Oh my.
I have found something of note about the whole MySQL shit, and about one common trait shared by all MySQL specialists: they are extremely knowledgeable about ins and outs of their database, but the bubble bursts as soon as they encounter anything other databases around have and it never occurred to them their database needs to have it too to keep up. The solution MySQL folks prefer are:
- re-define core terminology (like, there are transactions and there are transactions as understood by InnoDB)
- pretend the problem doesn't exist and that you don't want that thing that you say you want. Like ACID and CAP in distributed environments
https://aphyr.com/posts/327-call-me-maybe-mariadb-galera-cluster That's the first article
https://aphyr.com/posts/328-jepsen-percona-xtradb-cluster That's the follow-up we're interested in
tl;dr Percona claims their XtraDB cluster is CAP-complete; a guy proves them wrong; they write a response where they try to prove him wrong; he writes a follow-up in which he proves they are even more wrong and misleading; after that, Percona takes down the page with the claims, but without any explanation whatsoever. Guess their PR is really shitty; not surprised if the same team did the superheroes stuff.
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@wft said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
Percona claims their XtraDB cluster is CAP-complete
Superman claims he can fly without any help from machines.
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@wft said in Database Performance Team: Superheros doing extremely tedious MySQL shit!:
they are extremely knowledgeable about ins and outs of their database, but the bubble bursts as soon as they encounter anything other databases around have and it never occurred to them their database needs to have it too to keep up. The solution MySQL folks prefer are: