🔥 Terrorists: we are being pressured by iPhones into creating Apple backdoor
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Do you know what Windows fanatics would say?
We weren't talking about that.
And who said anything about fanatics?
I did. If you don't like the
, don't reply. 
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Three words: Irish Republican Army.
What've they done in the last few decades? (I honestly don't know. My understanding is they're a fringe group, if not inactive, these days. I bet what they do pales in comparison to the total amount of damage Muslims have done, and naming another terrorist group hardly addresses "just about every mass terrorist attack is done by Muslims".)
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Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (ETA)
ETA are the Basque separatists, aren't they? In high school in the 80s, I heard that their thing was mainly blowing up Post Offices, but only after giving a day or so's advance warning so that nobody actually got hurt. That's about the extent of my knowledge.)
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Er, what? For Muslims we've got Boston Marothon, the two WTC bombings, San Bernadino, and the Chattanooga shootings, exactly what other events have been attributed to Muslims.
Meanwhile on the other side, we've got Oklahoma City, Fort Hood, Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood, the Charleston church shooting, anthrax letters, ricin letters, dozens of abortion clinic bombings and shootings, several church bombings, etc.
Hmm, Fort Hood...oh yeah, that was done by a guy of Palestinian descent named Nidal Hassan, who was in contact with Anwar al-Awlaki, yes?
BTW if you look at all instances of terrorism in the world since 9/11, you'll find there are thousands, and they're pretty much all done by Muslims.
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Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood, the Charleston church shooting, anthrax letters, ricin letters, dozens of abortion clinic bombings and shootings, several church bombings
And if all of those had been from foreign refugees that were tied to organizations that advocate killing Americans, I would find a way to keep those people out also.
We have to be on the look out for extremists
And there are a few countries that have exporting terrorism on the to-do list.
Can we please look at doing something about that?
Or is it racist to target a country/religion?
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If it was only about hardware specs I wouldn't spend the extra money.
The thing is that your average computer geek looks primarily at the hardware specs because they find a 2.5 GHz processor sexier than a 2.4 GHz processor (or whatever), while your average consumer only looks at the hardware specs becausethat’s about the only way sellers of Windows computers can differentiate themselves from their competitors2.5 GHz is surely better than 2.4 GHz — it must be, it’s higher!Whereas someone like me, I look at how easy to use I find the OS. Hardware specs are almost entirely secondary — only useful in how they contribute to what the OS feels like when I work on the computer. And for me, OS X beats Windows and Linux hands down in this regard.
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Can you point me to when they last attacked in America?
TIL terrorism only happens in AmericaWhat've they done in the last few decades?
Not a lot to be fair; their last big attack (that I know of) was this:
Since then, they've faded into relative obscurity.
naming another terrorist group hardly addresses "just about every mass terrorist attack is done by Muslims"
While there is certainly an element of truth, it does have the unfortunate side-effect of colouring the whole thing as a religious issue, when those who actually think about it for more than a nanosecond know it's not the religion, but a violent extremist minority within. It's the same story with the conflicts in Ireland between Protestants and Catholics, with the Nazi genocide of the Jews, and of course with the (Christian) Crusades in the Middle Ages.
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TIL terrorism only happens in America
I knew this was coming because you strawmanned the situation in America into a global one so you could find other examples of organized terrorism.
The OP was about whether to let people into America.
If we had a problem with IRA bombing in America, I would consider locking out Irish out until that mess got sorted out.
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It's the same story
Is it the same story when it comes to a man of conviction, who happens to be Christian, wants to change the law?
Or is he a religious nutjob that wants to establish a national religion.
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OK, so terrorism only matters when it's in America.
I'm sure all those Irish, Spanish, etc victims will be glad to hear that.
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The most well recieved window managers for Linux at this point are Unity and Cinnamon: A painful fusion of phone and Mac on the one hand, and Windows XP on the other.
Strides are not being made in usability over there. It's one giant Discourse-level mess. I really wish it wasn't.
I think that might be because the people who are driving user-friendliness in the Linux community are a mix between people who think user-friendly means it acts like Windows and people who think it means it acts like iOS.
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OK, so terrorism only matters when it's in America.
I'm sure all those Irish, Spanish, etc victims will be glad to hear that.
When addressing who to let across American borders, I am only concerned about terrorism that is crossing American borders.
See, I am capable of changing the context of my arguments when I change scope.
If you want to talk about terrorism in general, then that conversation has nothing to do with Trump not wanting to let in foreign Muslims.
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Let's see what you said originally:
@xaade said:Let's see, just about every mass terrorist attack has been a Muslim refugee.
Hm, no mention of America… or Trump for that matter…Context: It's Belgiuming important.
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Context: It's ■■■■■■■ing important.
Yes it is, that's why you had to take that statement out of context to make your point.
@sloosecannon said:
It's an outrageous and inflammatory statement that could never be enforced in any kind of capacity, that just also happens to be Islamophobic.
Let's see, just about every mass terrorist attack has been a Muslim refugee.
I don't think it's inflammatory to say, we need to figure this shit out.
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Hmm… still no mention of America or Trump…
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What statement was sloosecannon referring to.
Don't be dense.
You jumped into a conversation where the context was established several posts before, ripped my post out of context, and assumed I was talking about global terrorism, and not within the context of recent events in America.
Practically the only source of imported terrorism into America has been Islamic.
If it were Irish because of the IRA, Trump would be talking about Irish, not Muslims.
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I tried to expand the quote to find out, but then it Discoursed, so I'm just going to read something that isn't Discoursed
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TIL terrorism only happens in America
You're just being stupid. The context was what Donald Trump was saying in a US Presidential election.
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OK, so terrorism only matters when it's in America.
I'm sure all those Irish, Spanish, etc victims will be glad to hear that.
Do you suppose American immigration policy will have a large impact on those things.
Context: It's ■■■■■■■ing important.
Yes, but you were the one ignoring it.
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I tried to expand the quote to find out, but then it Discoursed, so I'm just going to read something that isn't Discoursed
Don't recolor my comments and blame Discourse.
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Which wasn't apparent in the post I replied to. At least you actually pointed that out.
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Which wasn't apparent in the post I replied to. At least you actually pointed that out.
Ok, but I clarified to you now.
Can you please take the match away from the strawman?
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*sets light to @xaade*
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what the OS feels like when I work on the computer. And for me, OS X beats Windows and Linux hands down in this regard.
I've always been a Apple
hostageuser, and a few years ago I would have agreed with you. But seriously, have you tried El Capitan? It's a bug-riddled calamity. From the top of my head, some the "repeating" obvious bugs:- Mail crashes almost daily, and on the very first day of use I got it to a point where it consistently crashed on opening, with the only way to recover being to delete my account settings and set them up again.
- On my second monitor, windows suddenly disappear (they seem to be still there for the OS but they don't show up, and can't be closed or moved)
- There's really weird glitches in Finder, like if I click on my "Public" folder it sometimes selects the folder above it.
- Discoverability has completely gone down the drain, even below Windows levels; there's lots of features hidden behind unintuitive key combinations, user interface elements which only appear if you press ALT etc.
Note that I already had these issues when my new Macbook came fresh out of the box.
I also don't like all the "gestures" stuff, especially with the more recent trackpads which don't have a separate button. All the time it sees my finger movement as some kind of gesture and randomly switches to another desktop or into Exposé or whatever.
And of course they are right at the bleeding edge with the "everything is a phone" brainworms.
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Hmm, Fort Hood...oh yeah, that was done by a guy of Palestinian descent named Nidal Hassan, who was in contact with Anwar al-Awlaki, yes?
Actually, I meant the one in 2014. The one in 2009 I'll give you, sure.
BTW if you look at all instances of terrorism in the world since 9/11, you'll find there are thousands, and they're pretty much all done by Muslims.
That's not really relevant. We're looking at stopping terrorism in the US; a naive blanket rule like blocking all Muslim immigration clearly won't do that. Sandy Hook, Luby's, and Virginia Tech -- the three deadliest mass shooting ever in the US -- were not done by any Muslim.
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Sandy Hook, Luby's, and Virginia Tech -- the three deadliest mass shooting ever in the US -- were not done by any Muslim.
"deadliest mass shootings" is a convenient way to ignore the largest body count in a terrorist attack.
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So you're actually only interested in stopping Muslim terrorism?
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but a violent extremist minority within.
The thing is, that's not really true. All mainstream Muslim jurisprudence or whatever the right word is says that Jihad is an obligation, and the Koran and the Hadith explicitly condone violence including terrorism. By contrast, the New Testament only advocates peaceful proselyzation. While Christians have been violent in the past, there's no Biblical justification for it, and, in fact, Jesus healed a Roman when one of his disciples cut the man's ear off.
"A violent extremist minority" is the phrase people use when they don't know or don't want to admit that at least 25-50% or so of Muslims are willing to admit they think terrorism is justified at least some times.
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OK, so terrorism only matters when it's in America.
Could we not
for one conversation? I mean, place 'em where we want, but let's keep them there for a while, and not keep jumping back and forth about whether we're talking about the US or the world.
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Which wasn't apparent in the post I replied to. At least you actually pointed that out.
True. Seemed obvious enough if one was reading the thread, though.
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So you're actually only interested in stopping Muslim terrorism?
"When did you stop beating your wife, Mr Frostcat?"
Mu.
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So you're actually only interested in stopping Muslim terrorism?
Two interests.
- Stop all terrorism.
- Stop importing terrorism.
Guess what takes the biggest chunk out of number 2?
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All mainstream Muslim jurisprudence or whatever the right word is says that Jihad is an obligation
That it does, but the word 'jihad' doesn't itself mean violence; it's simply about maintaining the religion, which can be done peacefully.While Christians have been violent in the past, there's no Biblical justification for it
I wouldn't be so quick to claim that:Luke 19:27:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.Matthew 10:34:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."A violent extremist minority" is the phrase people use when they don't know or don't want to admit that at least 25-50% or so of Muslims are willing to admit they think terrorism is justified at least some times.
But how many of them would act on that? I'd venture very few.
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But how many of them would act on that? I'd venture very few.
They don't need to. With a billion or so[1] Muslims in the world, 1/100 of one percent is a hundred thousand potential suicide bombers or whatever. And the point about that high number of supporters is, they won't help the cops find suspected wannabes.
Luke 19:27:
The quick searching I did on that suggests it's intended to be read not as an exhortation to kill Gentiles but that it's talking about the end of days, and I'm not going to get into a discussion with you about this because
[1] let's not quibble about exact numbers
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They don't need to. With a billion or so[1] Muslims in the world, 1/100 of one percent is a hundred thousand potential suicide bombers or whatever.
And they all live... ON YOUR BLOCK!
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And they all live... ON YOUR BLOCK!
The only way that would be even theoretically remotely possible would be if they were diced, based on the number of buildings in said block.
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The quick searching I did on that suggests it's intended to be read not as an exhortation to kill Gentiles but that it's talking about the end of days
OK, but there's the Old Testament to take into account, and that's not so shy about mass genocide.
For example:Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and utterly destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
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Good thing there aren't many of those around then, no?
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Amalekites? That's because they've already been dedded.
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Mass genocide was all the rage back in those days!
Now things are much more boring. Safer, though.
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OK, but there's the Old Testament to take into account,
Nope, that's not how the New Covenant works.
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McAfee is on it.
JOHN MCAFEE: I'll decrypt the San Bernardino phone free of charge so Apple doesn't need to place a back door on its product
Cybersecurity expert John McAfee weighs in on the FBI's wanting Apple to decrypt the San Bernardino phone.
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at least he's saying "hey, there's a problem we should address, and that's that roughly all the terrorists in the world today are Muslim"
Yeah, we need more Jewish and Mormon terrorists.
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As far as Trump is going--at least he's saying "hey, there's a problem we should address, and that's that roughly all the terrorists in the world today are Muslim". Nobody else is even capable of admitting that there is a problem. You cannot come up with even a partial solution if you can't admit there's a problem.
Even assuming that this dubious assertion is in fact accurate: what's to be done about it? The percentage of all Muslims who are terrorists, like the percentage of any cultural group who are terrorists, is very very low. Start excluding Muslims at the border and all you're doing is enabling extremist propagandists to make the completely accurate claim that you're prejudiced against Muslims for no good reason. Your "partial solution" is contributing to the resentments that promote extremist behaviour, making you less safe than you would have been without it.
If you're going to screen immigrants, the only way to avoid a ridiculously high and resentment-promoting false positive rate is to do it on the basis of checking past behaviour, networks of known criminal associates and so forth - things that have a much higher correlation with being a terrorist than merely being Muslim or having a particular country of origin. And you need to apply these tests to all prospective immigrants, not concentrate them on any particular cultural group.
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Tell that to all those Christians who use Leviticus to justify the persecution of homosexuals.
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Maybe Apple will do it in the end and nobody needs to know.
Perhaps, after a nice show on the stage under the agreement from both sides, they will do it secretly.
After all, they don't have to tell anyone.
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Does anyone live close to any Muslims actually?
It's not easy to see any of them here in Korea.
Does anyone have any experience living among them?
The thing is, that's not really true. All mainstream Muslim jurisprudence or whatever the right word is says that Jihad is an obligation, and the Koran and the Hadith explicitly condone violence including terrorism.
True. Opinion of Islamic scholars on Jihad I read that it is mostly the Western scholars who interpret jihad to be peaceful; most Islamic scholars interpret jihad as actual exercise of violence. I don't have the link to that writing so I cannot argue on this.
Reading through other posts here, well it seems both books promote murder of some sort.
But really, if you base your life on a book that was written by some ghost who tells you to kill, whatever reason it provides, it's pretty insane, I'd say.
Oh btw, does anyone know what this "institute" is and how neutral their view is and how much veracity or credibility you can give to their resources?
Gatestone Institute : Germany's Sharia Refugee Shelters
"Bulk of Migrants Cannot Be Integrated"
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You get a lot of Muslims in South East Asia. But Muslim just indicates your religion. It is not representative of your ethnicity. For example, in Malaysia and Indonesia, you will get Muslim Malays, Muslim Chinese, and Christian Malays, Catholic Malays, Christian Chinese, Buddhist Malays, etc...
Religion extremists are a rarity in South East Asia. The religion with most extremists in South East Asia, is ironically, Catholic and not Islam. The normal Muslim practice in these areas, are usually Friday noon prayers and fasting.
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Oh btw, does anyone know what this "institute" is and how neutral their view is and how much veracity or credibility you can give to their resources?
Alan Dershowitz is on the Board of Governors, so: grain of salt.
1996 Manchester bombing - Wikipedia
