Mohammed the clock kid cons country to get sneak peek at Obama's penis for TERRORISM!
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A cellphone is small enough that even if it's used to trigger a bomb it isn't likely to be the bomb. To be used as a trigger, the cellphone would have to be attached to the bomb.
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A cellphone is small enough that even if it's used to trigger a bomb it isn't likely to be the bomb. To be used as a trigger, the cellphone would have to be attached to the bomb.
You expect the kind of person who thinks it's reasonable to call the police because a small child bit a pop-tart into something roughly gun-shaped to appreciate that distinction?
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Relevant story: In junior high school, my very strange group of friends and I brought in a whole bunch of batteries of mixed types, mostly C Cells and 9-volts, and wire and duct tape. We connected them all into series and made a ~100V DC battery, and were making sparks on doorknobs with it.
Well, we got caught with it and sent to the principal's office. It was brief. "That looks like a bomb. Put it away and don't bring it back to school."
That's what should have happened.
Sent to the Principal's office, told not to bring it back, and not to bring things in without permission.
Any less than that, and that would be wrong too.
I don't recall anywhere reading that this kid's clock was beeping
but the teacher complained when the alarm beeped in the middle of a lesson.
Now, you can run all the what-if hypothetical counter-scenarios you want
Except, threats have been ignored due to reverse profiling. Largest case:
The inquiry team noted fears among council staff of being labelled "racist" if they focused on victims' descriptions of the majority of abusers as "Asian" men.
It was so bad, even the Muslim community was pissed off that the cops didn't report on it. Because that meant they didn't have the opportunity to respond to it themselves, or even condemn it.
But, no, we'll never ignore a threat over fears of being labeled a racist.
That said, we often ignore the fact that Muslims do help to stop terrorism.
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2010/05/05/95219/senagalese-muslim-vendor/
So I have a good reason when I say that this instance will be used to justify neglect.
My very point is that we keep seesawing to extremes and highly polarize issues, such that we never come up with rational ways to handle situations.
And the fact that no one can look at me say this, and think, fair enough, is concerning.
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At the same time, what you guys aren't seeing, is me commenting on the other side, saying people are stupid for insisting this kid deserved to be arrested.
Here's what I posted on a conservative site.
I disagree.
Both sides of the argument are being stupid here.
We don't have to bend over backwards because he's Muslim and risk ignoring a credible threat, but we don't have to stand over him either and insist it's an attempt to mimic a bomb because he must be a terrorist wannabe. The cops made disparaging remarks that equated to guilty until proven innocent, and then insisted it was more than a clock after he told them it wasn't.
This is equivalent to wanting to arrest a kid because he painted his nerf gun like an assault rifle. It's simply not a crime.
Confiscate the item, tell him to never bring it back, and send him back to class. If he wanted it to be a bomb, the school would have been exploded already.
Then make a policy that says that all electronic devices must be approved at the office before bringing them on the remainder of school grounds.
Solves the problem indefinitely, for everyone, and takes all claims of profiling and racism out of the mix.
But, this is what I get for taking the middle ground.
Burned on both sides that can't think past: "Article is all correct, be mad." or "Article is all wrong, be mad."
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Your reaction to "this thing that some person did was wrong and stupid and they should not have done it" is pretty consistently "but banning that thing will have unintended negative consequences".
SO THE FUCK WHAT
This thing that the school administration and the cops did was wrong and stupid and they should not have done it. End of.
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This thing that the school administration and the cops did was wrong and stupid and they should not have done it. End of.
Ignoring the device is also wrong.
They're both wrong.
Why does it have to be one or the other?
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You are the ONLY PERSON making that claim. So you tell me, I guess.
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Because that's all I've ever said was
"The school was right for confiscating the device, but wrong for arresting him and being prejudiced"
And 3 people have gone on and on about me being wrong somehow.
I even put the wrong part in front, clearly labeled, so no one could miss it.
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but what people are telling me on forums is that no one should have even asked him what it was.
People did**emphasized text ask him what it was, and he told them it was a clock. I don't recall reading anyone here who said that they should not have asked, it was everything after that where people lost their shit.
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No one here said that.
But, I still feel that they were correct in confiscating the device, and bringing him to the office, which is pretty standard.
Most of "everything after" is what the cops did about it.
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I still feel that they were correct in confiscating the device
Then you are a bad person and should feel bad.
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Just curious, to clear up.
Would you have the same response if the story had been about a white kid?
Because I do.
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Show me the same thing happening to a white kid, and I'll tell you how I feel about it.
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irrelevant.
Your response should be the same with or without knowledge of the person's race.
It appears you care more about equity than any other concern.
It doesn't matter if we are treating the situation correctly, as long as we're treating everyone the same.
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When you ask a question about how I'd feel about a hypothetical kid being victimized, and your question specifically mentions your hypothetical kid's race, you don't get to act all snotty and superior just because my answer does too.
Apparently unlike you, I don't make a practice of obsessing over how I ought to feel and/or act when confronted with hypothetical situations. I just do my best to be a decent human being, and trust that that will be enough.
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It doesn't matter if we are treating the situation correctly, as long as we're treating everyone the same.
I do not wish to live in your inflexible rules-driven robot world.
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That's the problem though.
It has to be.
Tiptoeing around perceptions of racism, is what is creating the robot rules world.
We create the rules to eliminate the need for judgement, because when you introduce judgement, you introduce the potential for racism and other forms of discrimination. But we want to put so much distance from that risk, that the concern over the perception of discrimination overtakes all other considerations. To the point where we cannot adequately perform the services/security/etc needed.
Welcome to America....
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We create the rules to eliminate the need for judgement
You really, really need to view and contemplate the Barry Schwartz piece I linked above.
Welcome to America
I think you'll find that I have often expressed relief that I don't in fact live there.
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You really, really need to view and contemplate the Barry Schwartz piece I linked above.
It's idealism.
You can only allow it to happen, which requires good people. When you have good people, you give them room. When you have idiots, you make rules.
Ideally, I would like to see the cops disciplined, or no longer allowed to work in those situations, possibly at all. Because that impacts other decisions they make.
Like who they arrest on the street.
But a key thing he said was, rules are the fallback. You only use them when nothing else worked.
And in this scenario, if you don't have the flexibility to fire the school staff involved, you make the rules.
But inevitably, in recent days, you'll have someone target you for doing something "prejudiced" even if you have the best intentions and a close eye on it.
But I still feel like the school has a right to confiscate and examine any device on its property. And of course, as always, motive matters. Are they doing it to harass a person because of discrimination? Are they doing it because, in their ignorance, they honestly see a threat? Those are case-by-case concerns.
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Are they doing it to harass a person because of discrimination? Are they doing it because, in their ignorance, they honestly see a threat?
It seems to me that in this particular case it was both of those. I don't necessarily think the discrimination was conscious (except perhaps in the case of the "Yup. That’s who I thought it was" cop); unexamined prejudice is the only plausible reason I can think of to explain why a person could conceivably experience a piece of lashed-together electronics as threatening when shown to them by a dark-skinned kid called Ahmed.
The English teacher and the principal and the cops appeared to have utterly extraordinary difficulty in letting go of the idea that electronics + Muslim === hoax bomb. It's perfectly clear that none of them actually thought it was an actual bomb, as the school did not get evacuated. But the idea that electronics + student === innocent tech project did not occur to any of them either; and if any of them were decent human beings, it should have.
The engineering teacher appears to have correctly predicted this reaction from his colleagues. It would be interesting to have a private conversation with that engineering teacher; I doubt he's going to be in a position to say much in public right now.
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Can we get the bombs-in-class discussion jeffed?
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Can we get the bombs-in-class discussion jeffed?
It'd be tempting to ask for it to be not just Type-1 Jeffed, but Type-2 Jeffed. But not Type-3 Jeffed; we don't hate people that much.
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Idiots should not be employed to run schools.
No one else seems to want the job, though.
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It seems to me that in this particular case it was both of those.
I don't think so. At the point that they recognized it wasn't a real bomb, it's no longer a threat.
We can't criminalize thought.
Even if the kid intended it to be a prank like bomb, or even if he identified as a terrorist and was doing this for practice, he still hasn't broken a law.
We are a nation of laws. That's what protects us from doing stupid stuff like throwing a person in jail because they associate themselves with communism.
However, how they screen objects for permissible, is totally up to the school.
If they say they don't want an object that can be perceived to be similar to a case-bomb, regardless of intent, they can take the object away.
Now, I also believe they must have to give it back at the end of school, preferably to the parent, but that should be accompanied with whatever rule is being broken.
I'm certain that, without previously requesting permission, I would have not been allowed to bring that device to any school I've attended in the past. If not for anything else, but it being a distraction.
"Yup. That’s who I thought it was"
letting go of the idea that electronics + Muslim === hoax bomb
Both of these are the problem.
This goes beyond subconscious discrimination.
They are actively targeting him for his skin color / religious associations.
Another topic I've been fighting on the far-right side, is that I've seen a couple of posts associating him with CAIR, and there's been links from that association to money laundered to "terrorist" associations. It's guilt by association.
IMO, none of that should impact the legality of his actions. This goes back to the communism thing I mentioned earlier. You can't be guilty of associations, only actions.
This goes hand in hand with the drug war, where they use extreme prejudice for actions associated with violent actions. Instead of extreme prejudice of violence, they target people who indirectly fund the violence. This is also not justice.
The punishment should fit the crime, and here in our case, there is no crime.
I think the difficulty with the argument that I'm presenting here, is that this situation was obviously racist. So my argument is being incorrectly viewed as an objection to labeling the situation as racist. But this goes back to the extreme polarization that people are making out of information they are receiving. They are unable to dissect situations into individual actions and validate the individual actions. And as such, they tend to want to dismiss all related actions in an effort to stay far away from the undesired result.
It's "throw the baby out with the bath water" approach to judging situations that result in wild swings from one extreme to the other.
People that are honestly wanting to consider things with a non-judgmental heart, see the response to this as saying, if someone has a protected status, questioning anything will label you as racist. And that's where a lot of resentment comes in.
They let that resentment build up, and it starts to form into a hatred over time.
And for these people suddenly, being told you're racist long enough, makes you a racist.
It's a weakness of will, but it still happens to a lot of people I know.
Idiots should not be employed to run schools.
Well it would be great if enough good-honest people wanted to run schools and teach. But eventually you have to pick from the left-overs to fill up the roster.
The engineering teacher appears to have correctly predicted this reaction from his colleagues.
I don't know if he predicted the racism as much as he predicted the cautionary response. If I were a teacher, my advice would have been the same to any student, regardless of ethnicity or religious background. Again, there's enough news of white kids terrorizing schools, that I can see the same concern arising with a white kid.
Part of self-preservation is caution by association. And no matter how unfair that seems, it's still necessary. Don't walk into dark alleys, don't get close to people who are hiding their face, etc. It's just when this wanders into concerns of a person over traits they can't help, that it becomes a problem.
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I wouldn't expect a non-expert to try to tell the difference between a homemade electronic clock and a homemade bomb detonator timer.
Coming in late, not sure if anyone pointed this out, but:
http://mindblogs.smartandstrong.com/davide/alarm-clock-400.jpg
This is all I'd need to make a bomb timer. Primitive? Yes. Would it work? Probably. Would I need a mess of wires in that case even if I went more high-tech? Hell no.
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If these retards assumed everything they didn't understand was a bomb, they'd think literally everything everywhere was a bomb.
Good job they didn't try to "fix it" with a hammer
No....Wait...It's a shame that they didn't try and fix it with a hammer... Hold on....they did!
Somebody please stop meThey even got a pyrotechnical display as a result, even if it was only of the political kind and not the firework type.
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There actually was someone with the appropriate knowledge in that school, the engineering teacher the kid first showed the clock to.
Who obviously knew the other teachers were idiots since he told the kid to keep it in his backpack and don't show anyone.
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Even if you were dumb enough to build it with a hugely visible timer, a la movies, what would the beeps indicate?
Obviously to tell you that you have 5 seconds to cut the green wire. Or is it the red one? Damn.
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http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/09/irving-police-chief-admits/#
Police Chief admins the department knew there was no bomb, nor was there a bomb scare, nor did any crime whatsoever occur. Arrested the kid anyway.
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Even if it was a "bomb detonator timer", without any explosives attached it's still fucking harmless.
Since watches can tell time, we should arrest anyone who goes to that school wearing a watch. Yeah, that'll show those people! The ones who want to know what time it is!
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My favorite thing about this story is that the kid's dad has run for President of Sudan twice.
This is the kid's big break (which I wonder if it worked even better than he and his dad could have hoped :tin_foil_hat:). Now he's gotta deliver.
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The question is whether they knew there wasn't a bomb at the time and they arrested the kid because of racism or something, or if they didn't think about it until after it went viral and they're trying to cover their asses.
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My favorite thing about this story is that the kid's dad has run for President of Sudan twice.
It makes you wonder why someone so educated and qualified would choose Texas of all places to relocate to.
Sounds like he's doing a good job raising a family through. Kudos to him.
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Yeah, I think some people made a mistake by deciding to err on the side of what seemed like caution. Which in today's hyper-offense-taking environment just gets out of control.
It makes you wonder why someone so educated and qualified would choose Texas of all places to relocate to.
No. But I can see why it would baffle one such as you.
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The question is whether they knew there wasn't a bomb at the time and they arrested the kid because of racism or something, or if they didn't think about it until after it went viral and they're trying to cover their asses.
Why the either-or?
Both are perfectly possible and work just fine together.
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Well, at least here in America we're just practicing catch and release on local Muslims, instead of luring them in and killing them...
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:plumber:
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Yeah, it's easy to take the moral highground if you're not having to deal with an influx of tens of thousands of refugees inside a few months, asshole.
I don't see your country caring for those Syrians too much.
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tens of thousands of refugees
Sounds like a Wednesday in Nogales. Anyway, you idiots basically invited them. What did you think would happen?
I don't see your country caring for those Syrians too much.
Hey, we decided not to invade.
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What use would a beeper be on a real bomb?
Even if you were dumb enough to build it with a hugely visible timer, a la movies, what would the beeps indicate?
Finally, somebody mentioning this. For realsis</troll>, why the hell would anybody put a huge LED display on there?
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I'd rather be an idiot than an asshole like you. So, fuck off.
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Yeah, it's easy to take the moral highground if you're not having to deal with an influx of tens of thousands of refugees inside a few months, asshole.
Hi, let me introduce you to something called "South America" (and Mexico) (and Cuba) (and various other places).
We've been handling that many refugees a year for like 50 years at this point.
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I dare say that you'd be equally pressed if your refugees' numbers just jumped up tenfold. I actually underestimated.
The newest prognosis is 800,000 refugees this year alone. To put it into perspective: That's almost 1% of our total population.
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I'd rather be an idiot than an asshole like you. So, fuck off.
Does it make you feel better about your inadequacies to imagine malicious intentions in others?
Sheesh...you guys could at pass some regulations preventing people from eating poisonous mushrooms. You can't just leave that stuff up to the free range market!
I dare say that you'd be equally pressed if your refugees' numbers just jumped up tenfold. I actually underestimated.
The newest prognosis is 800,000 refugees this year alone. To put it into perspective: That's almost 1% of our total population.
Yes, it was a real bone headed move to invite all those guys in. Though you seem to have realized the error:
In a 128-page draft law produced by the German Interior Ministry and obtained by The Washington Post, the government would speed asylum procedures, cut cash benefits, hasten deportations and punish those with false claims and phony paperwork.
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The proposed German law would provide food and a ticket to return to the first European Union country the asylum seeker entered, instead of housing and cash benefits. That could mean far fewer people would win protection in Germany or elsewhere in Europe, since countries such as Hungary are generally declining to award refugee status.
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The newest prognosis is 800,000 refugees this year alone. To put it into perspective: That's almost 1% of our total population.
US Immigration Statistics Fast Facts | CNN
Read Fast Facts from CNN about immigration to the United States.
Poor baby; in 2013 we caught illegal immigrants representing 2% of our population, and that's just the ones who were caught for some reason.
(For the record, in that same year 2013, the US brought in 69,909 refugees legally.)
I'm sorry, but I think the US does its part. We'd probably be stuffed to the gills with Syrian refugees also, if it weren't for that nasty ocean.
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If he had brought that into my HS and showed it to my physics teacher he would of been asked to show it off to all of his classes. He also would of been invited to the robotics club, on the spot.
Poor kid, just has the misfortune of being in a shit school.
