Bull :shit: and more bull :shit: and lots of bull :shit: (content warning: StarGate)
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I just wonder why feminists aren't treated with the same level of animosity.
Do you see any feminists here posting to try to justify threats made by their side? Going by the Roberto guy story, it seems the other side is smarter. Instead of publicly spouting hate they quietly target weak individuals and ruin their lives. That's bad, but there's no one to argue against because no one openly defends it.
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That argument is entirely without merit. How women are treated in the Middle East is entirely fucking irrelevant. We live in a goddamned civilized nation. This kind of behavior is completely fucking unacceptable, full stop.
If GG wants to be seen as something other than a mysoginistic hate group that threatens women with violence in order to silence them, then maybe they had better police themselves better.
Hmm... completely misses the point... asks for impossible things... ranty style.... Blakey? Why the dupe account?
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Then tell the shitheads to shut the fuck up. As long as you're here saying, "It's ok, we can just ignore them," you're demanding that other people deal with their shit, and you're tacitly endorsing it. If you feel the GG side of things is sooooooo important, then reduce the noise ratio, and get the shitheads making threats to shut up.
Here's the rub: said shitheads have earplugs in and noise-canceling headphones on, playing loud music through them, so they can basically just go "LA LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU" whenever you tell them to STFU.
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Having a smarter way to issue your threats, doesn't validate your argument more. God, it's like I'm debating with retarded elementary school kids. "Nuh ah" "Uh huh" "Nuh ah" "Uh huh"
That seems to be how we're validating arguments now.
"You have more people using your flag and being idiots. Your flag is evil."
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OMG that sounds so familiar.
Seriously.... I totally didn't mean to make that parallel.
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The reality of this whole debate, is that people will only listen to your arguments, if you yell louder than the shitheads that pretend to be for your cause and act stupid.
That's a very hard thing to do, and that's why we can't have good things.
Like, seriously, that's not even a joke that time. It is literally why we can't have good things.
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This post is deleted!
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The reality of this whole debate, is that people will only listen to your arguments, if you yell louder than the shitheads that pretend to be for your cause and act stupid.
That's a very hard thing to do, and that's why we can't have good things.
Like, seriously, that's not even a joke that time. It is literally why we can't have good things.
I will agree wholeheartedly with that. However, it's not anyone's responsibility except for GG to make it easier to find the relevant, non-rape threat stuff.
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https://stateofthegaming.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/a-quick-followup/
“I got about two paragraphs into the link before I closed it and wandered off.”
“More or less ridiculous and disrespectful than making rape threats at a person because they started a Kickstarter to discuss gender issues in gaming? I need a gauge here.”
“Oh well. I’ve changed my mind entirely. Let’s find the people behind those Twitter accounts and give them a badge of honor. Maybe a huge cash rewards. These guys are heros!”
“Jesus, man. Go back to 8chan.”
“From what I’ve seen of her videos, she just briefly narrates a problem with gender in games, then shows clips from dozens of games demonstrating the problem. AFAIK she’s not even making any arguments.”
Why do these quotes look awfully familiar?
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Man I should charge money for this shit.
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There are still far too many games where the male avatar is the unquestioned protagonist. To name some examples off the top of my heat, The Witcher 3, the two Metro games. Shadow of Mordor (which, as I said above, they crudely hacked-in a female avatar but it was obviously a last-minute thing and they did a really half-assed job), the Far Cry series.
And many games where the female avatar is the unquestioned protagonist, like Tomb Raider series, or BloodRayne, or that new Alien game. Some games have protagonists be actual characters in the story. It's as if you were watching a shot-for-shot, word-for-word remake of, say, the first Alien movie, except with Ripley being a guy - would this make any goddamn sense?
Especially with The Witcher it's silly. Geralt is a book character. Were he a female, the writers would pretty much need to rewrite the whole lore to accomodate that.
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Then tell the shitheads to shut the fuck up.
With what, a handgun? IT'S THE FUCKING INTERNET! ANYBODY CAN SPEAK ANY GIBBERISH, IN THE NAME OF ANYTHING!
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I just don't think there needs to be a "movement" to remind journalists to not be shitty at their jobs.
I don't know, a lot of the journalism I read these days looks like it could benefit from one.
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Why do these quotes look awfully familiar?
LOL, @blakeyrat should get the siren badge or whatever we're calling it, even if the guy just lurked. :-)
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@Magus said:
It was given to him by a female friend. He didn't know anyone would be offended by it at all.
So you want me to believe he's just really, really, really fucking stupid? That is the defense?It seems to be what he's been going by and his sister kind of backs that up:
@sister said:“useless” as he suffers moments of indecision in daily life...
He gets so involved in everything that sometimes common sense goes out the windowAnyway, there is way too much public shaming that usually exceed the crime.
No comments on the GG discussion as I haven't read any of that (or the above until now).
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@blakeyrat said:
So you want me to believe he's just really, really, really fucking stupid? That is the defense?
It seems to be what he's been going by and his sister kind of backs that up:
I've dealt with some beamline scientists involved in a government-funded facility. There was a great deal of unusual clothing choices. The first time I met one chap he had green chinos, a radioactive-yellow shirt and a polka-dot bow tie. Dress doesn't seem to matter to some exceptionally intelligent people.
Definitely a small sample size on my part but I can easily believe he didn't even consider in a passing fashion what he was wearing.
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With what, a handgun? IT'S THE FUCKING INTERNET! ANYBODY CAN SPEAK ANY GIBBERISH, IN THE NAME OF ANYTHING!
Relevant quote:
Most monad tutorials are written by people who barely understand monads, if at all, but unfortunately nothing can stop someone from writing a monad tutorial. We've tried, there was blood everywhere.
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If what you're wearing gets in the way of your job, and has a bunch of people making angry calls to your employer, I don't define that as "exceptionally intelligent". I define that as "pretty damned stupid actually."
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LOL, @blakeyrat should get the siren badge or whatever we're calling it, even if the guy just lurked
Maybe Magus was Mr. Anonymous all along.
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If what you're wearing gets in the way of your job, and has a bunch of people making angry calls to your employer, I don't define that as "exceptionally intelligent". I define that as "pretty damned stupid actually."
Except that it didn't get either in the way of the job or net the employer any angry calls ever before (that is, 99.9% of the time before that incident). And the fact that it went viral just then? Probably mostly an unfortunate random chance that there was nothing else new on the internet to get angry about at that time.
20/20 hindsight etc.
(Added: FWIW, as much as I dislike dress codes, the one situation where they might be appropriate is when you have to get in front of a lot of people. Especially people outside of your normal communities.)
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Except that it didn't get either in the way of the job or net the employer any angry calls ever before
Ok?
Did you have a point here, or do you just enjoy the typing sounds your keyboard makes?
And the fact that it went viral just then?
Because they got airtime on like 30 TV networks, built an expensive set specifically for the broadcast, hired camera men, technicians, etc.? That's not "going viral". That's "doing a TV show for a large audience."
Unless you're seriously trying to claim that:
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Nobody told naked-chick-shirt-guy that he was going to be on TV in front of millions of people that day and
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After being told that he didn't go out and buy/borrow a more appropriate shirt for the event?
Look, what he wore for that broadcast was not "intelligent", it was "stupid". It was obviously stupid, and virtually anybody could have told him if he had bothered to ask, "hey, is this shirt ok for the big TV transmission thing?" So unless your definition of "intelligence" is very different than mine, what he did is demonstrably not very intelligent.
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Did you have a point here, or do you just enjoy the typing sounds your keyboard makes?
Yes.
Because they got airtime on like 30 TV networks, built an expensive set specifically for the broadcast, hired camera men, technicians, etc.? That's not "going viral". That's "doing a TV show for a large audience."
Going viral was referring to the shitstorm around the shirt, not the TV segment.
Look, what he wore for that broadcast was not "intelligent", it was "stupid". It was obviously stupid, and virtually anybody could have told him if he had bothered to ask, "hey, is this shirt ok for the big TV transmission thing?" So unless your definition of "intelligence" is very different than mine, what he did is demonstrably not very intelligent.
Apparently nobody around him thought it bad enough to mention - either then or at any other time he was wearing it or something similar (which, btw, was part of my keyboard-typing noise point). Also, do you think that the group there didn't meet at all before the TV transmission thing?
As for "not intelligent" ... I'd perhaps go for "naive". So, yeah, I guess my definition of "intelligent" is a bit different from yours. "Stupid" would be (IMO) if he didn't learn anything from this mess.
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"Stupid" would be (IMO) if he didn't learn anything from this mess.
He apparently didn't learn anything in the decades of his life before the TV broadcast that would have put the kibosh on that shirt.
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Apparently nobody around him thought it bad enough to mention
You'd expect the production crew to tell you if your clothing wasn't considered acceptable by them. I've had to remove a baseball cap before because it had a tiny logo on it.
So, at the very least, it wasn't just his judgement involved.Look, what he wore for that broadcast was not "intelligent", it was "stupid". It was obviously stupid, and virtually anybody could have told him if he had bothered to ask
I think it was fairly unprofessional but not offensive. So, following on from that, not necessarily stupid. But that's obviously highly subjective, which is why an apology should have been enough.
Edit: I grammar gud. Fixed
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Since the argument here is "games should be more inclusive", it doesn't take a lot to convince people. It's kind of duh. It's like arguing, "hey, maybe kids shouldn't die of horrible diseases?" Well, duh.
It depends on how you intend to include more people. If you want a broader variety of games, that's one thing. If you want all games to change to be a certain way, you're going to get a lot of push back, if for no other reason than that your argument is essentially telling people that something they like a lot is actually really terrible and hurtful which makes them bad people.
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I'm not Boomzilla. I'm just trying to figure out what the FUCK Magus (and to a lesser extent you) are talking about.
It's funny, because that's exactly what I'm trying to do when you can't make yourself understood and I ask you to explain.
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It’s so ironic that the privileged white rich male, reputed to be ‘listened to’ by other people due soley to his gender, was completely ignored and mocked industry wide, while the ‘downtrodden female whom no one respects her views due to her gender’ is seemingly celebrated, worshiped and applauded at every turn by the entire industry despite almost complete equivalence of arguments
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Here's a little bit of shocking news: EA could make their games more inclusive without the Government being involved at all!
And if they did, they might even sell a few more games. Will the shocks never end?
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And if they did, they might even sell a few more games.
So then why aren't they? Do you have evidence that they'd sell more? If that's really true, wouldn't someone do it already?
Will the shocks never end?
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If that's really true, wouldn't someone do it already?
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If that's really true, wouldn't someone do it already?
Someone's gotta be first. Plus there's always the issues relating to discrete events (so there are real limits to how efficient things can be) and a changing situation (many opportunities are very bound to time and place).
Spoken like a true free market economist.
The key point is that models aren't reality. We create models (and theories) of the world because reality is messy and complicated. The models attempt to help us understand and predict the world, but are necessarily imperfect; we should expect the world to deviate from the models. All this applies to more than economic models, of course, but the general point still holds.
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@boomzilla said:
If that's really true, wouldn't someone do it already?
Quoted out of context like someone without a good argument.
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Bark like a sea lion for me, baby.
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Did you ever put a link or anything explaining the sea lion thing you use to ignore stuff you can't deal with? Or is it a non sequitur that you came up with yourself?
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Ah, right. In that case...
And if they did, they might even sell a few more games.
Sea lions!
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Ok I am muting this topic now.
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Yeah. Shame that such a noble thread had to end in this travesty.
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Just bury it for a couple months. Once it's nice and ripe, somebody is sure to necro it.
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Well, the media has only worked against that possibility.
I'm afraid, even if they did had a central location and were organized, it would be just like the other "violence diverse" groups, where the media would only report on the negative things.
Occasionally you can find an interview where they ask a GG supporter candidly, and they always condemn the threats and say the same thing I've said.
But then someone talks about receiving threats, and that's all you hear about for months.
It's a problem of scale too.
You'll find these constructive interviews on gaming magazines and websites.
But CNN will then report on the threats.
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One of the first things I did in 2012 was find a $10 bill on the sidewalk in Harvard Square.
So at Harvard, they don't find pennies or even nickels on the sidewalk, they find $10 bills.
Smug rich douchebags.
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REASONED DEBATE from GAMERGATE
https://twitter.com/Nero/status/627204633405034496
Superman Actor Dean Cain on GamerGate: I'm on the Gamers' Side
Actor Dean Cain has revealed he is "on the gamers' side" in the GamerGate movement.
Incredibly washed-up actor who played Superman for a couple years before starring in several Sci-Fi Original Pictures (in one of which he fights dragons resurrected via. genetic cloning) supports your position.
Awesome.
And I know you were all looking forward to him starring in The Dog Who Saved Summer.
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In the unlikely event anyone wants an intro to all this crap, the best one I've seen in ages is this video series. Yes, it's video, and watching it all will take a while, but as I say — it's the best intro I've seen in ages. It explains the dynamics and psychology of what's going on, rather than just being a rehash of "he said, she said".
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That's some quite astute analysis.
Links to the author's tumblr, containing transcripts for those who would would rather not invest time in the videos: parts 1 2 3 4 5 6 and followup.
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Okay, There is no way I'm reading all 200 essays in this topic.
Can someone explain to me what GatorGame is? Is it some kind of hotel that was broken into by Richard Nixon? Can one open a GatorGame and pass through it, or are they more akin to a logic gate? Were actual alligators harmed in the making of this production?
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it's the best intro I've seen in ages.
BTW, it doesn't really deal with GG until video 4 (according to the linked transcripts).
That's some quite astute analysis.
It does read as being right up your alley.
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Is there a bi-partisan support badge? If not, can someone create it and give me one?
