Random Rant of the night.
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I've never heard an orc who doesn't speak with a Brittish accent
Hollywood treating intelligence as distrustful
???
I thought it was only the Ogres that have layers.
Counter argument.... allied power spies have English accents.
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Basically, yes.
Interestingly the trope is not unique to hollywood.
in Japan it's not uncommon for the antagonist (or outright enemy) to be american.
I have no *cough*Hiroshima*cough* idea *cough*Nagasaki*cough* why that could be.
also this:
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Oroit boyz, git ta shootin!
We'z gonna krump dose gits till dey rememba da orkz! An den krump em some more!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
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speak with a Brittish accent
So far, we haven't actually addressed the elephant in the room: there's no such thing as 'a British accent':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8mzWkuOxz8
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Russian enemies are becoming more common for Japanese stories.
an emerging development. i wonder if it will stick.
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2011 - 2015
Chinese - Russian coalition is the last big bad in the anime.
And I believe the red-head from the middle segment was Russian, but I'm not sure. EDIT, wrong. "Ichijō Family, one of the Ten Master Clans". The anime is so damn hard to follow who is who, because I'm spending so much time tracing Tat's logic.
The American spy actually tips the Japanese students off to the coalition spies that embedded in Japan. He gets killed by the Chinese.
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there's no such thing as 'a British accent':
Because it would be called "English accent", which would be confusing as hell.
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Because it would be called "English accent"
There's no such thing as 'an English accent' either. Compare Scouse to West Country: both English, yet totally different
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No such thing as an "American English" accent either.
Compare me to a New Yorker.
Hint: A git-er-done sticker is on the car parked next to mine.
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So far, we haven't actually addressed the elephant in the room: there's no such thing as 'a British accent':
I'm not watching that video, since it obviously disproves your point as much as pointing to a bunch of bananas and saying there's no such thing as "a banana" is a ridiculous thing to do.
No such thing as an "American English" accent either.
you guise.
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I'm not watching that video, since it obviously disproves your point as much as pointing to a bunch of bananas and saying there's no such thing as "a banana" is a ridiculous thing to do.
My point is there's not 'a' British accent; there are many British accents.
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there are many British accents.
Don't think that Ireland guy is going to like how you phrased that.
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Ah, but was I talking about the country, or the collection of islands?
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My point is there's not 'a' British accent; there are many British accents.
So you admit that you sound stupid when you object to someone saying that a character had a British accent?
Or would you really object to me having a banana because there are many bananas?
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that Irish character had a British accent
Unless of course, he is played by Morgan Freeman.
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So you admit that you sound stupid when you object to someone saying that a character had a British accent?
I… never said that?
@boomzilla said:Or would you really object to me having a banana because there are many bananas?
Have what you like; I'm not the fucking Fruit Police
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Unless of course, he is played by Morgan Freeman.
I have no idea what you're saying or why you made up a quote.
I… never said that?
Let me refresh your memory, @BlakeyProUK:
@Magus said:
I've never heard an orc who doesn't speak with a Brittish accent
there's no such thing as 'a British accent':
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I've never heard an orc who doesn't speak with a Brittish accent, except from Blizzard?
So far, we haven't actually addressed the elephant in the room: there's no such thing as 'a British accent':
I… never said that?
You actually said exactly that.
But I think there's context there.
And I think what you mean to say, is that when someone says "English accent" they think of a certain English accent, which is "disparaging" to other English people that have a different accent...
ok that last statement was satire, forgive me...
But I think the problem you are pointing out is that there seems to be a "default English accent".
At which point, I see you argument, but we're just playing with semantics here.
If you don't like the reference, then you need to provide an alternative, which you haven't done.
And that's where these arguments trip up. If no one can give me an alternative, then I will use the existing one. British accent is THAT particular English accent.
Because ultimately communication is about communicating, and I'd rather err on the side of being able to understand each other, rather than be so tied up in semantics that I'm not allowed to categorize such that people can understand me.
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I have no idea what you're saying or why you made up a quote.
According to @RaceProUK, an Irish person has a British accent by extension.
But, Morgan Freeman plays a black guy that's inserted in lieu of an Irish guy that maintains the names and lines in the story as a joke. (Which is one of my favorite jokes ever, "Because I'm Irish).
Shawshank Redemption.
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@RaceProUK said:
I… never said that?
You actually said exactly that.But I think there's context there.
Exactly. It's not really sufficient to say 'a' British accent, because there's about 38 squillion different accents on our funny little island. But generally, people mean the accent that's known in the UK as either 'Queen's English' or 'BBC English'. Or that ridiculous stereotypical toff accent, where everyone says 'tally ho!' and 'pip pip old chap!' and nonsense like that
@boomzilla said:@BlakeyProUK
*huff huff hiss huff hiss*
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To be fair, this is an adaptation of a series of novels, and novels tend to be better about this kind of thing than, say, movies.
But most villains in Japanese works are Japanese, with a few foreigners. And then you get things where they're foreigners, yes, but this isn't taking place in our world anyway, so the closest you get is 'sort of like Russia, because a lot of it is cold too?' (Last Exile) and so on.
I don't know, I think people just imagine things that sound interesting to them. Things that sound interesting to other people as well make money. People make more of that.
'There isn't enough ethnic diversity in medieval stories!'
'Right, do you know much about medieval times?'
'I don't care, DIVERSITY!'
'FINE WE'LL MAKE THE BLACK KNIGHT!'
'Stop laughing at black people!'The only way to win is to not play. My game was always going to be about robots, but if it hadn't been, I wouldn't even start to listen to the people who say I'm oppressing them because they're under-represented. There will always be someone under-represented, and I don't care enough to learn their culture and include them in a place that doesn't make sense by contriving something stupid. Creative works are only good as long as they remain creative. The Oppression Awareness Committee will not help my game be more fun.
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And that's where these arguments trip up. If no one can give me an alternative, then I will use the existing one. British accent is THAT particular English accent.
And no one outside of you neighborhood (or its local rival) really gives a shit about the nuances of your accent. It comes from Britain, it's a British accent.
According to @RaceProUK, an Irish person has a British accent by extension.
Meh, it all sounds close enough to me. To be fair, though, the LotR orcs all sounded more New Zealand / Australian (which my American ear can often distinguish in normal speech, but the orcs were snarling and short on Hamlet style monologues, so).
Shawshank Redemption.
Oh. It's been...probably 20 years or so since I saw that. All I remember is it was about trying to escape prison.
It's not really sufficient to say 'a' British accent, because there's about 38 squillion different accents on our funny little island.
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And then you get things where they're foreigners, yes, but this isn't taking place in our world anyway, so the closest you get is 'sort of like Russia, because a lot of it is cold too?' (Last Exile) and so on.
In Magic School, it is explicitly a Russian-Chinese cooperative superpower. So, there are some stories where the enemy is explicitly Russian.
But, also you have stories like Magi, where the enemy is a Chinese-Japanese cooperative. The world is analogous to ours, and so the relationships are analogous. It's somewhat more defined than (it's cold and some of them don't have black eye/hair), but not exactly the nations of Japan and China.
There's something to be said of analogous worlds.
Then there is stories like Wind Rises, where the enemy is EXACTLY Russian, but mostly American/West-European.
People forget that had the WW gone on longer, Japan would have considered Russia an enemy. And since America considers Russia to be an enemy, enemy of my enemy and all that.
Of course it helps that Japan has a crush on America.
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"English Accent / British Accent" == Received Pronunciation. (the proper name for "BBC English")
"American Accent" used non-pejoratively == Midwestern.
"American Accent" used pejoratively == Nebraskan, Alabaman, or Bostonian, depending on context.Carry on.
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There are also cases where the country is explicitly Russia, but isn't anything like the one in our universe. Ruled by the Lightning Empress?
Or you get really funny situations, like what happens when a 12yo Japanese kid starts a really popular novel where one of the main superpowers is 'The Roman Catholic Church' which in this case means 'people who dress like nuns, sort of, sometimes, and use magic constantly'
In the end, its a matter of whatever the author thinks will make an interesting plot point. If some author loves the good ol' USA, they'll make something about it. If they decide to make a show about a young Japanese girl with an obsession with blonde girls from England, they will (And have). People make stories and games about everything.
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But that's not interesting.
It's more interesting to follow trends and see if that is an indicator of influence or evolution of ideas.
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People forget that had the WW gone on longer, Japan would have considered Russia an enemy. And since America considers Russia to be an enemy, enemy of my enemy and all that.
They've fought with Russia in other wars. That's how Teddy Roosevelt got his Nobel Peace Prize.
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My game was always going to be about robots, but if it hadn't been, I wouldn't even start to listen to the people who say I'm oppressing them because they're under-represented.
You're oppressing me because humans are under-represented in your game.
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Cool. Don't buy it, then.
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You're oppressing me because hu-man-s are under-represented in your game.
What about the hursons?
And the transersondersons.
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The only way to win is to not play. My game was always going to be about robots, but if it hadn't been, I wouldn't even start to listen to the people who say I'm oppressing them because they're under-represented. There will always be someone under-represented, and I don't care enough to learn their culture and include them in a place that doesn't make sense by contriving something stupid. Creative works are only good as long as they remain creative. The Oppression Awareness Committee will not help my game be more fun.
And I find that making backgrounds that are actually *shock, horror* interesting is a good way to do that, at least for me -- who knew that the broad-shouldered Russian-American lass flying the posh private jet is related to Igor Sikorsky, or the bronze-skinned knight errant's the son of a Moor and a Spanish noblewoman?
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It certainly can be. But if I do that, it's not going to be because someone complained that my first book didn't have enough mexicans in ancient greece. It's going to be because I thought it would be cool.
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There's no such thing as 'an English accent' either. Compare Scouse to West Country: both English, yet totally different
Film history buffs: check out "The Blue Angel", starring Marlene Dietrich. The real main character is played by Emil Jannings, who is an English teacher, although he's a teacher who is German, not English.
He's a teacher in a Gymnasium, but he's not a gym teacher.
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saying there's no such thing as "a banana" is a ridiculous thing to do.
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I've never heard an orc who doesn't speak with a Brittish accent, except from Blizzard?
Why you pokie me again?
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Because actors like Vincent Price are one of a kind awesome.
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So, I actually resent this thread, and everyone in it, but I'm going to go ahead and become what I hate by taking part. Just a couple of observations:
- it seemed like @xaade believes that actors get hired on the basis of talent and acting ability, which doesn't really mesh with my understanding of Hollywood―I always thought it was more about nepotism and politics and ideally actors would have some minimum level of ability but whatever, we can fix it in post.
- do you ever take a step back, after defending the rich white folks' freedom to trample all over the aspiring coloreds and ask yourself what you're even trying to accomplish here? Do you know how that makes you look? I mean see my previous point about why I don't believe anyone who has even the faintest shot at a career in Hollywood could ever be considered oppressed, but still...
- screw you @onyx, Battleship was a great movie. It was loud, unnecessary and contradicted its own message―basically, it was the only movie that's ever really captured how it feels to be alive. And if you don't recognize what a masterstroke of genius it was to take a famous director and be like “hey, you like navy stuff right? Here's a billion dollars: go and do whatever”, I don't even know what to tell you.
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Well, screw you, too.
Battleship was a great movie. It was loud, unnecessary and contradicted its own message
So... it was a piece of crap?
You know what I detect here? Symptoms of fanboyism. You know, those people who invested time or money into something that turned out to be shit. Or enjoyed something shitty and now they feel a need to wax poetically about how the rest of us "just don't get it" so they don't look stupid for liking a shitty thing. Or so they hope, at least.
I enjoyed the movie. But it was shit. I have enough self-confidence to say so. I don't give a fuck if people think I'm stupid for liking it. FFS, probably my favourite movie ever is Flash Gordon. It's a piece of shit, too. And yet, I will use any chance I can get to sing it's theme song. Even though I can't sing, and even if I could I'd be trying to emulate Freddy fucking Mercury.
But no, I'm not mad because you "attacked" my opinion. No. I am mad because you refuse to agree with the rest of the world that Battleship is shit. It might be enjoyable shit, but it's still shit.
You, sir, are worse than a fanboy. You're an enabler. Of shit.
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So, I actually resent this thread, and everyone in it,
Looking at my comments in this thread, I don't really see anything I'd expect you to object to, but I suppose it's reasonable to grandfather me into this group.
I don't even know what to tell you.
I BELIEVE YOU
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And if you don't recognize what a masterstroke of genius it was to take a famous director and be like “hey, you like navy stuff right? Here's a billion dollars: go and do whatever”, I don't even know what to tell you.
This has got to be sarcasm.
I mean, you called me out right. You know I tend to exaggerate on purpose right?
I mean, the initial post is satire. The whole point of this topic is to say that maybe actors do get selected by their notoriety more than anything else. And that the makeup of actors is purely the result of a free market. And the fact that I fucking loved him in that role. He hammed the shit out of that role. And I like that more than him looking super huge or any other factor that creates the character.
I always thought
Well, then. That just makes it true right? I mean there's no other reason for Sam Jackson to be a good award winning actor because of his skill. It's got to be Affirmative Action.
nepotism and politics
From a bunch of people that are liberal and always whine about how everyone else should be more fair? Le gasp!
I got another one for this one.
nepotism and politics
take a famous director
Famous director wouldn't be famous because of nepotism or politics, would they?
that's ever really captured how it feels to be alive
Ok, I'm just going to put this post down as satire.
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Everything that ever came out of Hollywood was shit. Battleship is the pinnacle of that.
Did you know that Peter Berg was at this navy event (the same one that was in the movie, as I understand it) and he saw some girls playing soccer, after the match he pulled out the toughest-looking one and said “ok, you're going to be spending the next couple of months with Rihanna. Go everywhere together, even share a tent together”? You can tell it in her acting, she's so completely overwhelmed trying not to make any of the cheesy mistakes military types always complain about in movies she scant even focus on what she's supposed to be doing.
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‘Award winning’, as if anyone respects movie awards shows any more. Anyway, its not that the big names don't have any skill, but there's thousands of people who could reach that level of skill, given the opportunity, but the opportunities all keep going to the same people.
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Yeah, each comment was just one more post that I had to glance over, before I could put this thread behind me. And now here I am, keeping the thread alive, bumping it to the top of the list, so that it might claim more innocent victims. @onyx was right, I am an enabler.
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given the opportunity, but the opportunities all keep going to the same people
I don't see you creating opportunities. Do you realize that simply referring your friend for a position at work is the same nepotism that you're complaining about. The only way to ensure opportunities go to more people is to take a risk, start a business, and create opportunities yourself. Opportunities are only limited by the number of people creating opportunities.
Did it ever cross your mind that people work for opportunities? That many of these actors spend years in dead end one-episode-TV roles before they get lucky? Go browse IMDB on occasion and see where these guys come from. They aren't all bred into family lines specifically for getting a Hollywood role. They keep getting the same opportunities because people are out there continually buying the movies they star in.
Yet I don't see these SJWs out there buying up low-budget movies, or buying every game with a female lead role, or creating these games themselves. Not en-masse. There's a handful that do, and these people also have my respect.
I have a lot of respect for indie film-makers and the people that are celebrating that effort and rewarding that effort by buying into those movies continually. I don't find them entertaining, but these people are creating opportunities instead of couch warrioring everyone into tired deafness.
But I'm surprised that you responded to the fact that a black actor keeps getting roles with frustration. I mean, at what point are we supporting diversity?
I mean, in order to make that last reply, you had to glance over the fact that I'm paying homage to a good minority actor with satire, by highlighting that sometimes minorities are winning so hard that they take the role of a non-minority original source.
I mean, black Nick Fury was written into comics a full five years before showing up in Iron Man, specifically because they wanted that actor to play him.
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Everything that ever came out of Hollywood was shit.
No. Occasionally good stuff sneaks through anyway. It's purely by chance.
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I don't see you creating opportunities.
Fuck you know about my spending habits?
Do you realize that simply referring your friend for a position at work is the same nepotism that you're complaining about.
I didn't do that. And I also didn't get my job that way. But HR is a whole different type of clusterfuck than showbusiness; I'm not even sure that analogy is valid.Did it ever cross your mind that people work for opportunities? That many of these actors spend years in dead end one-episode-TV roles before they get lucky? Go browse IMDB on occasion and see where these guys come from. They aren't all bred into family lines specifically for getting a Hollywood role. They keep getting the same opportunities because people are out there continually buying the movies they star in.
So you admit that all that nonsense about how studios would go bankrupt if they had to hire diverse casts was a lie, then? That the people getting cast are the ones that people like you want to see in the roles. Because I'm not loving this whole “I would totally watch movies with diverse casts if only Hollywood would ever make any of them, darn it...” little charade.
Yet I don't see these SJWs out there buying up low-budget movies, or buying every game with a female lead role, or creating these games themselves. Not en-masse. There's a handful that do, and these people also have my respect.
It's easy to not see things, you just need to don't look.
Honestly, I don't think buying stuff is the solution here anyway. I don't see why entertainment even needs to be an ‘industry’ in the first place. I can have way more fun just trolling some jerks on a tech forum than I could by consuming anything a corporation ever made. And that's beauty of the internet, is that it's now easier than ever for people who are dissatisfied with popular culture to just turn it off.
Because if it was just the bra-burners and fundamentalists complaining about Hollywood's depravity—you said it yourself, there's only a handful of those that are willing to actually put their money where their mouth is. But it's not like that any more; turning off the tv isn't a principled stand people (or hipsters) choose to make. Now it's just “meh, I can just go online and find something that actually appeals to me”.
I have a lot of respect for indie film-makers and the people that are celebrating that effort and rewarding that effort by buying into those movies continually. I don't find them entertaining, but these people are creating opportunities instead of couch warrioring everyone into tired deafness.
You say ‘
jobopportunity creators’ I say ‘worthless chumps pissing away their inheritance just to feel relevant’. Potato potato.But I'm surprised that you responded to the fact that a black actor keeps getting roles with frustration. I mean, at what point are we supporting diversity?
I mean, in order to make that last reply, you had to glance over the fact that I'm paying homage to a good minority actor with satire, by highlighting that sometimes minorities are winning so hard that they take the role of a non-minority original source.
I mean, black Nick Fury was written into comics a full five years before showing up in Iron Man, specifically because they wanted that actor to play him.
He (or she—I'm sorry, I kind of tuned out the parts where yall were discussing animes) is super rich and famous, right? Hardly needs me on here defending them. Besides, I grew up white in South Africa; supporting diversity isn't really one of my core skills. All I'm saying is that if you find yourself in a debate fighting against the people who are trying to support diversity, maybe it's time to take a step back and think about things for a bit.
The Irregular at Magic High School - Wikipedia
