Vote of No Confidence
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http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5343
Do you really think ~23k posts is more manageable with the infinite scroll thing?
(Damn it's hard to quote a link, it keeps trying to follow it even though highlighting links on most sites doesn't do that.)
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how do I get the damned thing to show me threads that I haven't read all the way?
You would start by tracking them, if you want to track absolutely everything and get notified of everything, change:
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@joe_edwards said:
Do you really think ~23k posts is more manageable with the infinite scroll thing?
Yes, cause we have a summary mode: try it here, go to top and click:
Also you can easily filter by user. (once filtered you can expand parts missing between posts)
Once you stop thinking about "pages" a lot of this fancy filtering becomes possible.
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Yes, cause we have a summary mode: try it here, go to top and click:
<img src="/uploads/default/76/7da49f1e86081698.png" width="435" height="197">
Also you can easily filter by user. (once filtered you can expand parts missing between posts)
Once you stop thinking about "pages" a lot of this fancy filtering becomes possible.
Why would I trust you to curate the posts in the thread? I do want all of them, I do want to read them all. You do realise your "likes" thing doesn't select good posts, right? I mean, I routinely like all posts in a thread (thank you for using jquery by the way, it makes it a lot easier) I've replied to to push it further up the stack on the front page. I especially like posts I disagree with so people have better chance of seeing my reply of disagreement.
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Gravatar also has to go
We actually agree with this, and are working on it now because we want to remove the gravatar dependency for v1 of Discourse. We should have custom local default avatars next week at the latest.Give us signatures
Now this is just crazy talk.a working scrollbar
You have a working scrollbar, it's right there at the bottom right of the topic:
how do I get the damned thing to show me threads that I haven't read all the way?
There's a reset time based on when you joined and first created your account. But for topics after you joined the forum and initially created your account, set this in your user preferences:
We don't generally track topics for users unless they
- spend a lot of time in the topic
- reply to the topic
- explicitly set the topic to "tracked" in the notification panel at the bottom
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You have a working scrollbar, it's right there at the bottom right of the topic:
That's not a scrollbar.
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It still isn't. Pressing the up/down arrows doesn't go up/down a page of posts, clicking inside it doesn't scroll the page, scrolling inside it doesn't scroll.
Also, you can't use that video if you're not called Bruce.
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Oh wait, I just realised. I have to quote posts to reply to them.
Text below left for posterity:
And another thing. Why can I only reply to one post? Why can't I make a multi-reply post?
It often happens that Alice posts something, then Bob, Carol, Doyle and Ethan reply to her posts expressing pretty much the same reply. Then Alice really wishes to reply to all of them at once with a single reply, but replies are constrained to replying to a single post. So Alice has to make 4 replies saying pretty much the same thing, or leave everyone but Doyle hanging. Which makes everyone involved a sad panda.
4chan implements this pretty well. In fact, go look at that site for a bit (the /an/ board is pretty tame). Don't really read anything (you'll be happier not reading anything), just see how it functions. It's more barebones a forum than this system and still implements replying better than you.
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Why can I only reply to one post? Why can't I make a multi-reply post?
You can, highlight text, then click "quote reply". Repeat as many times as you like. Bam you just replied to (n) different posts.Like so:
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You can
Yeah, I actually realised I can and edited my reply some time ago. Still, it adds the quote at the end of the post, rather than where my cursor is.
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Ahaha, also, clicking on the up-arrow in quotes fucks with the back button. I can't press back to go back to the post which I was reading. I think this goes in the bugs thread.
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Errr.. no, since you haven't actually navigated to a new page, you just "scrolled up". By that logic, if you scroll up on a page and want to scroll back down, the back button should undo your scroll?
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That's how it works when I click on a link that takes me to another part of the same page via an anchor. I mean, go to wikipedia, select a random article, click on a link in the table of contents - it takes you to that paragraph. Then, when you click back you go back to the table of contents. It's still all the same page.
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That's how it works when I click on a link that takes me to another part of the same page via an anchor
Same thing happens when, say, you jump between answers and comments on Stack Overflow.
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That's how it works when I click on a link that takes me to another part of the same page via an anchor. I mean, go to wikipedia, select a random article, click on a link in the table of contents - it takes you to that paragraph. Then, when you click back you go back to the table of contents. It's still all the same page.
That's because they are using anchors and browsers understand that. I didn't see a single link on this page using anchors though. And if it did, I'm afraid to think what it would to to whatever custom history handling code is being used.
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I guess that's true, if you think of the "jump to post" up arrow on quoted blocks as an anchor. Open it as an independent meta topic here.
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Same thing happens when, say, you jump between answers and comments on Stack Overflow.
That's because they are using anchors and browsers understand that
my post is not empty now
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Yes, cause we have a summary mode: try it here, go to top and click:
So summarize mode is a complex bugfix to not wanting to use pages?I went for a bike ride yesterday, and in a moment, I thought to myself: "But lo, endless scrolling isn't a vision, it's an implementation detail!"
Of course new software needs vision, like any good plan, but scrolling method is not a vision.
Once you stop thinking about "pages" a lot of this fancy filtering becomes possible.
Pages don't prevent you from fancy filtering, I think. It's going to be at least one HTTP request and a rendering no matter what you do, and Discourse is preeeeeetty heavy on the requests side, which makes it feel slow and clunky to me. There's a reason people consolidate scripts and styles: requests = bad.Also it's polluting my history with a passion I have not seen since my router collapsed under the weight of bittorrent requests.
:'(
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I mean, I routinely like all posts in a thread (thank you for using jquery by the way, it makes it a lot easier
Don't worry, that's just because you're a sheer lunatic.
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Why can't I make a multi-reply post?
Yes you can, just select more bits from more posts.
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re, I hate infinity scrolling
I equally hate clicking page 2 and then clicking page 3 and then clicking page 4 and then clicking page 5 and then clicking page 6 and then clicking page 7 and so on.
Also it's polluting my history with a passion I have not seen since my router collapsed under the weight of bittorrent requests.
I totally get this complaint, but really its less to do with infinite scrolling as opposed to our particular implementation. I do want to find a way to fix it while maintaining the URL updating.
Also, you probably want to get your router with AQM.
We are constantly working on making Discourse faster, at the moment our biggest pain point is js rendering / binding which is totally unrelated to infinite scrolling or no infinite scrolling. We have a bunch of fixes in the pipeline.
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I wonder if disabling the hover effect that highlights the buttons on posts while scrolling will make this feel a bit faster to people.
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really its less to do with infinite scrolling as opposed to our particular implementation.
at the moment our biggest pain point is js rendering / binding
My usual advice for JS performance problems is "don't use so much goddamn javascript".
I've grown weary of these "advanced" sites implementing entire window managers, streamers and essentially: browsers in javascript. It's like an Inception of platforms where it looks like developers are blind to the fact that they're programming within a platform with 100,000 features built-in for free, and instead reinvent wheels and axels and cogs and newtonian mechanics. /rant
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To me, it feels clunky because:
a) the loading spinner keeps appearing an vanishing
b) constant jerky auto-scrolling movement as the page burst-loads new items; which is a CPU-hit as well as a visual scrolling jerk.
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Killing the hover animation should improve stuff a bit, there is also a new version of ember js out in a few months that implements the rendering in a far more efficient way with a huge reduction of html elements added to the page as an added bonus.
It should make suff much faster here.
What spec PC are you on?
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How does the endless scrolling work with Googlebot?
This is an interesting question, since googlebot is on such great terms with the old forums. It's not unusual to see TDWTF posts at the top of a google search within an hour of posting.
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there is also a new version of ember js out in a few months that implements the rendering in a far more efficient way with a huge reduction of html elements added to the page as an added bonus.
That should do a trick.
What spec PC are you on?
Phenom 2, 4GB* and an AMD 7850. I play all my games on highest settings, but Discourse is making Firefox cry with only 8 thread tabs opened in quick succession.
*) I upgraded to Win8 64 from XP-32, and haven't felt the need to put in more ram. I'm definitely not going to put in more ram just because of one forum. ;) Regardless, it's my belief that 99% of websites should run on low-end specs.
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It's not unusual to see TDWTF posts at the top of a google search within
an hour5 minutes of posting.At least that meme still, sorta, works...
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This is an interesting question, since googlebot is on such great terms with the old forums.
Try disabling JS, you even get paging
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Try disabling JS
But what if you're using Firefox and the Great Mozilla Minds have decreed than such an option is too powerful for your sheeple hands?
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At least that meme still, sorta, works...
Yeah, I discovered that before. For some reason, the "standard" markdown (according to what I found) ~~ doesn't do strikethrough. Thankfully, actual strike tags are allowed. Otherwise, I'd have entered a blocking bug post on blakey's bug topic.
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> sam said:Try disabling JS
But what if you're using Firefox and the Great Mozilla Minds have decreed than such an option is too powerful for your sheeple hands?
That's what NoScript is for. At least we know that paging exists, though it only seems to have a single Next Page link when you do that (which should be pretty easy to enhance). So, that means that infinite scrolling isn't inseparable from the rest.
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I equally hate clicking page 2 and then clicking page 3 and then clicking page 4 and then clicking page 5 and then clicking page 6 and then clicking page 7 and so on.
I hate that far less than infinity scrolling (I also set my forums to display the maximum possible number of messages per page, so there's less pages).
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sam said:I equally hate clicking page 2 and then clicking page 3 and then clicking page 4 and then clicking
page 5 and then clicking page 6 and then clicking page 7 and so on.I hate that far less than infinity scrolling (I also set my forums to display the maximum possible number of messages per page, so there's less pages).
The forum seems pretty good at jumping right to the last post you read while infinity scrolling. Why couldn't it do the same with pages? Or, you know, more powerful page controls.
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I have three hopefully simple issues.
One, what is "[en.topic.notifications.reasons.0_7]" supposed to be, next to "Muted"? I think it's something to do with me saying "never e-mail me about anything that isn't in the Side Bar category", but that's unclear. Hell, if I could I'd set it so that this software never sends me e-mail about anything besides PMs, but I've been told that that might break the ability to see on-site which categories have new topics and which topics have new posts, because they use the same interest-tracking system.
Two, what is the sort order for topics, and can I set that to reverse-chronological by either first post or latest post? Visually, it's suggesting that it's sorting by topic title (chevron in the title column) but that can't be right...
Three, I know new topics exist because I see the "new" indicator next to it, but how do I visually see that there are new posts in a topic, and how do I go directly there? Is it related to this mysterious, underexplained "bookmark" functionality?
I too don't like the infinite scrolling since it makes it way too easy to lose my place, but since I'm on desktop there's a browser-provided scroll bar I can click/tap and hold in the direction I want to go and demolish the server with unnecessary AJAX requests until I get there. It would really suck on mobile though. The UI has far, far, FAR too many charms, but I imagine as the Discourse team looks at usage statistics (they do, right?) they'll pare them down into the bare essentials. (For starters, moving "Reply as New Topic" into the actual "Reply" window would fit the user's expectations better, and that could even replace the preview pane with new-topic-related controls.) I miss the tag cloud, but if I knew anything about Rails I'm pretty sure it'd be an easy add. Other than that, my reaction is pretty much "meh". Better in most ways than Community Server, better than the community CMS my employers built, but no compelling value-add over other forums -- feature-add, certainly, but not value-add.
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I too don't like the infinite scrolling since it makes it way too easy to lose my place, but since I'm on desktop there's a browser-provided scroll bar I can click/tap and hold in the direction I want to go and demolish the server with unnecessary AJAX requests until I get there.
Is this true, or do you just not know how to use the forum?
Some things:
- The forum remembers where you were in a thread, so re-visiting a thread the next day will take you to the first post you haven't read yet
- After quick-posting, clicking the up-arrow on the thing you quoted takes you to that person's post, and from there you can continue reading
- For all the bitching about Home and End, going to the start or end of a thread is actually not something you need to do very often (at all?)
Basically, you've always been used to scrolling yourself; now allow the forum to help you.
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The forum remembers where you were in a thread, so re-visiting a thread the next day will take you to the first post you haven't read yet
That's true -- and different, though in a good way, than what other forums do -- but visiting a topic through a link (for example) will also update that last-read counter and lose me my place.
After quick-posting, clicking the up-arrow on the thing you quoted takes you to that person's post, and from there you can continue reading
As a general rule, I read all threads to the end before replying, but I can see how that would be helpful to some people.
For all the bitching about Home and End, going to the start or end of a thread is actually not something you need to do very often (at all?)
I tend to leave all my tabs/windows open at home, and still visit the same sites/topics at work. While I can relatively easily remember what page I'm on while leaving work and jump to that page at home, remembering post numbers is more difficult and there's no "jump to bookmark" button anywhere I can see, aside from backing out to the topic list and manually relocating the topic. So while jumping to the start or end of the thread isn't a common activity, jumping to the middle of it is.
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Hrm. I was going to say that the people complaining about the history pollution issue (possibly here, but probably over there since I can't find the posts with it using Ctrl-F) were crazy, because my back button had no issues whatsoever, but then I checked my history sidebar and jeez, something is terribly terribly wrong. Probably should switch to using fragment identifiers for posts rather than path components until browser vendors decide to do history push/popping differently.
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Probably should switch to using fragment identifiers for posts rather than path components until browser vendors decide to do history push/popping differently.
It would also help with jumping to referenced comments, and make it easy to implement tags or similar features. Honestly, I don't see why it wasn't done that way from the start.
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Yes, the spectate swamp thread would go on and on forever. it would never end, especially since the latest post goes to the bottom of the thingy and who wants to scroll forever? SpecateSwamp would go away to another forum to get laughed at and thedailywtf would lose entertainment value.
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Heh, if you click "boomzilla said" on PJH's post, it expands to boomzilla's unadulterated text (as is to be expected).
What I'd like to know is if we're ever going to be able to change font family, color and size. It it said that Markdown doesn't allow this.
This simply won't do!
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Heh, if you click "boomzilla said" on PJH's post, it expands to boomzilla's unadulterated text (as is to be expected).
However, within boomzilla's unadulterated text, there is a quote from Morbs. That cannot be expanded (yet?)
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Seconded, thirded, fourthed, fifthed. The more I use it the more repulsive I find it. If this is what TDWTF forums is committed to, I'll be off to find some other pack of unreasonable oafs to condescend to.
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Fuck, with NoScript blocking js for this site, the reading experience moves from intolerably enraging to merely dreadfully ugly. It would just stay off permanently if I didn't need to turn all the shit back on just to get a reply in.
Filed under: best viewed with js enabled? THEY LIE
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Two, what is the sort order for topics, and can I set that to reverse-chronological by either first post or latest post? Visually, it's suggesting that it's sorting by topic title (chevron in the title column) but that can't be right...
Depends on what view you have.
- If you set it to "Latest", it defaults to showing you the topics that
have been updated most recently on top, then descending in
reverse-chrono order. If you click the "Topic" header, it'll reverse
that. - "Top" shows you the topics with the most activity (overall, I
believe). - "Categories" takes you to a category list page, from which
you can enter any of the categories and see only topics in that
category. - "New" shows you new topics that have been posted (since
the last time you visited, I believe) - "Unread" shows you all topics you're tracking that have new items in them.
- "Starred" shows you all topics you've starred.
- If you set it to "Latest", it defaults to showing you the topics that
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Creating that list in my post above was a pain. I had to manually click the "Bulleted List" button to create a new top-level bullet point. If I put in the exact same Markdown item (a hyphen), it would default to putting it into the first sub-level for some reason. Also doesn't seem to respect newlines for creating top-level bullets when highlighting text and trying to convert it to a bulleted list, since it just crammed everything into one bullet point and stripped out newlines.
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You have a working scrollbar, it's right there at the bottom right of the topic:
You're not stupid, so don't pretend you are.
Also your quote button doesn't pick up on selected images. Yet another thing CS does correctly that Discourse does not.
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We don't generally track topics for users unless they
spend a lot of time in the topic
reply to the topic
explicitly set the topic to "tracked" in the notification panel at the bottomSo you basically have a checkbox whose caption might as well read, "work the same way as every forum in history ever", and you turn it off by default?
Added bonus: yet another image in the post that wasn't picked-up by the Quote button. How is it possible that you guys are screwing up that CS, which is a complete JOKE in this product space, got correct? It's mind-boggling.
