How large is your, erm, M.2?
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My nephew just bought a new (refurbished) laptop and I said I'd buy him an additional disk for his, uh, work stuff. Definitely work stuff. Not games. Anyway.
So he got a HP ProBook 450 G10 and it currently has one M.2 disk (512 GB I think) plus a slot for another. I know nothing about modern hardware, but how hard can it be to find something? Right? RIGHT?
The specs (see e.g. here) say there's "1x 2280 PCIe NVMe 4.0 x4 1x2260 PCIe NVMe 4.0 x4."
Digging in, the 2280/2260 apparently indicates the physical size of the things (22 mm x 60 or 80 mm -- there are a few other sizes available). We spent some time digging into whatever Windows was willing to tell us (to avoid having to open the thing right now) and it seems his current disk occupies the 2280 slot. So I have to find him a disk that fits into a 2260 slot.
Except... that doesn't really seem to exist, at least not in capacities larger than a floppy disk. OK, I'm slightly exaggerating but the largest I could find are things like 32 GB or maybe 64 GB. Not very useful. Plus it's pretty hard to be actually sure because you can find a lot of search results where the title says "2260" but the description says "2280." Or "2280" and "2260." Or it says "2260" but the actual physical dimensions are listed as "22 mm x 80 mm."
If that's really how it works, I'm not really surprised that 2260, being physically smaller, can only have smaller disks. After all, bits do take some space. But maybe I don't really understand all that.
So, hive mind, enlighten me!
Does this 2260/2280 difference really matter? (I think it does, probably a 2280 disk won't fit a 2260 slot, although maybe the reverse would work but that wouldn't help me)
What is the biggest size of disk I can get for a 2260 slot?
Did I misunderstand everything and made my life more complicated than needed? (that's not a cry for help...)
One idea I was vaguely considering is buying him the largest disk that can fit into the 2260 slot, and another very large disk (2 or 4 TB) to replace the one (currently 512 GB) in the 2280 slot. As long as the system can fit onto the first (small) one, that should do the job, even if it's a bit wasteful (but I'm sure my brother can find another laptop in the family that would benefit from the scavenged 512 GB disk).
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A quick look tells me that 2260 isn't available at my usual haunts, but there are 2230 drives up to 2TB.
I'd expect a 2280 to not fit in a 2260 slot since it'd be 20mm longer, whereas a 2230 will, but there may not be any mounting screws for that size in a laptop. Because laptop.
And when I do the google on the interwebs, I get responses for that particular laptop having both 2280 and 2230 slots. Thanks gargle.
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@Carnage said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
A quick look tells me that 2260 isn't available at my usual haunts,
Yeah, I found a couple of forums discussing "new" hardware (that came in 2260 form) but they were from some years back. Everything now seems to be 2280. So maybe 2260 is mostly small because it's old, rather than because it's physically small. Either way, I couldn't see any reasonably-sized 2260.
but there are 2230 drives up to 2TB.
Oh? I saw that other sizes than 2260/2280 did exist but since I got the impression that 2260 was (too) old I didn't even think about searching for even smaller sizes. Though now I wonder, if large disks exist in 2230, why they don't also exist in 2260. But I can indeed find such disks, and for similar prices to 2280 ones. So that's good.
I'd expect a 2280 to not fit in a 2260 slot since it'd be 20mm longer, whereas a 2230 will,
That'd be my guess, but of course I don't want to buy something without being sure it will fit, so if anyone can confirm that a 2230 will physically fit into a 2260 slot, that'd be great?
ETA: I saw that there are (at least) 2 standards of connectors for M.2, depending on the position of the notch (with some devices being compatible with both standards), so another thing to make sure of is whether 2230/2260 by itself indicates the notch position, and if those are compatible.
but there may not be any mounting screws for that size in a laptop.
I'm not too worried about screws. I guess a M.2 is so small and tightly positioned into the laptop that there isn't much space for it to move around. So yeah, bashing the laptop around might possibly dislodge it but that might not be a huge issue (especially if it's a secondary data disk, not the one with the system), and if that happens it's probably enough to open the thing and re-seat it (don't forget to blow on the cartridge!). Possibly you could use a bit of electrical tape to hold it in place.
I guess?
(thanks!)
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If this review is for the right laptop/variation:
It says the empty spot is a 2242 and shows the back with the lid removed so you can see the three M.2 spaces. One short one (2230) is used for wireless (upper-left in their pictures), one full-length for the included drive (lower-right), and one unused one with only one mounting screw location (lower-left) that floats off the circuit board.
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@remi It will stay in place as long as it's folded down, so a bit of thick two-sided heat resistant tape (read thermal pad) could possibly keep it in place even through being bumped.
The reason oddball sizes such as 2242 and 2260 doesn't come in larger datastorages is because they aren't used much so companies does not develop new products for those sizes. 2230 is at largest half the datastorage of a 2280, but 2 TB is pretty much even today. Unless you're working on some serious AI stuff, or trying to build physics models of everything, everywhere all at once.
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OK, combined with @Parody's link (thanks!) and pictures, I think I'm starting to get it. 2260 isn't much used for disks, hence why I don't find many.
In a 2260 slot, I can physically fit anything the same size (duh) or smaller (2260, 2242, 2230...). The screw will not fit, but I can apparently easily find adaptor plates, for example this (it's just the first link I found, with clear pictures):
So I can get one such plate (for a buck or so), and any disk I like in e.g. 2230, and it will work. Worst case, the plate is too shitty to actually use, but a bit of appropriate adhesive should do the job.
Now about the notch in the connector (see e.g. this page), is that something I need to worry about? I can't find any indication of whether the slot is, uh, A, B, E or M (you gotta love the consistency here...). Does that mean it will accept an SSD with any of the notch formats? Is there some relationship with something else (e.g. x2 vs. x4)? Why is life so complicated?
While I'm getting TDWTF to do the work for me, any specific recommendations for a 2 TB (or 4 TB, if not too expensive) SSD in 2230 (or 2242/2260) size?
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As far as physical mounting goes, you can get little adapter boards to extend shorter ones if there aren't standoffs at the right spots.
Edit Heh, -
'd.For type/keying, it looks like that empty slot takes PCIe drives.
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@Parody that's the link/picture I posted, I think. But yeah, seems that this isn't a big deal. Dunno why I didn't think of that once I realised that 2260/2280 was about physical size (and that there were smaller ones).
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@Parody said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
For type/keying, it looks like that empty slot takes PCIe drives.
I, uh... have no idea what you just said here...
Does that mean I have to worry about it?
Most stuff I see (like e.g. this one) seem to be keyed in B/M, which I assume is so that they're compatible with everything. There aren't many prominent mentions of the keying, which makes me further assume that it's not something I really need to worry about (if it was, it'd be more visible!).
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@remi Right, B and/or M. It looks like both slots are x4 (skimming reviews) so anything should work.
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@remi I'll let Crucial explain rather than misexplain something as I have a tendency to do:
NVMe vs M.2 vs SATA vs PCIe: What are these SSDs?
Confused about M.2, PCIe, SATA and NVMe SSDs? The experts at Crucial explain all you need to know about form factors, physical interfaces and more.
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@remi That drive is B&M-keyed, but it's also SATA and not NVMe which is what the specs you cited were. (Some older computers support both, but newer computers only support NVMe drives.)
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@Unperverted-Vixen Aaaaaargh....
(thanks though, and for @Carnage's link as well)
So I need either a B, M (or B/M) disk, in format 2230/2242/2260, and NVMe. I also want it to be at the very least 1 TB, preferably 2 TB (4 TB seems too expensive for my budget, plus it might not exist in anything smaller than 2280).
Sounds like a pretty specific set of things to filter on. "Shopping will be done in no time!"
If only shopping sites like Amazon had useful filters (and items had the field correctly populated, I guess), rather than oh-so-useful-filters-with-a-single-choice-and-pointless-categories-anyway:
(there is another filter, not shown here, that truly filters for capacity, I have no idea what this one is about)
(plus anyway, toggling any of the filters that do have more than one choice return items that may or may not respect the filter. Sometimes.)
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@remi I stopped (well, never really started) using Amazon, and instead go to field specific stores for my needs. Amazon deserves to die in a fire for being such a horrible mess of a UI, a chinesium delivery pipeline and full of scammers. And that is before you even get to the shady shit the company gets up to beyond the webstore.
I also find that I get better service from specialist stores if I need help.
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@remi said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
I'm not too worried about screws. I guess a M.2 is so small and tightly positioned into the laptop that there isn't much space for it to move around.
Usually (?) it's natural position is slightly raised, and needs to be held down by a screw or some clever mechanism that takes the place of one (depending on the motherboard). But typically, motherboards will have multiple screw holes for standard sizes of M.2 devices. Your best bet would be to open the laptop and see, or at least look up a picture of the particular model online to see what's' available.
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@Carnage I don't really like Amazon for specialist stuff like this. But they do have 2 advantages: first, they pop up immediately on search result (the
is an easy prey for SEO...) and they have a huge catalogue that makes it easy to get a quick glimpse of the type of things that do exist.And second, and more annoyingly in this case, you need to know what the good shops for specialist stuff are, and particularly I need to find a French website since I'm going to order physical stuff! An EU site would work as well (German etc.) but it needs to be EU (and not only written in moon language!) otherwise I'll be shafted in delivery + VAT + import taxes (*) and it may take ages. And for computer stuff... I just don't know where to go!
(*) story time: for sentimental reasons we like having a wall calendar from a specific UK source, so we buy one each year. We go to the UK often enough, for work or otherwise, to buy it there, but once I ordered it online and delivered to France. I paid something like 10 bucks for the calendar, and 20 bucks in various post-Brexit "fuck you" taxes...
Filed under: am I allowed to derail my own help thread that hasn't yet been fully answered?
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So I found that one in 2230:
Corsair MP600 Core Mini - 1 To - Disque SSD Corsair sur Materiel.net
Achetez votre Disque SSD Corsair MP600 Core Mini - 1 To (CSSD-F1000GBMP600CMN) sur Materiel.net ! Paiement en 3X dès 100€, livraison rapide ou retrait en magasin | SSD 1 To, PCI-Express 4.0 4x, M.2 NVME, CSSD-F1000GBMP600CMN.
Which comes in 1 TB and 2 TB, or that one in 2242:
Corsair MP600 Micro - 1 To - Disque SSD Corsair sur Materiel.net
Achetez votre Disque SSD Corsair MP600 Micro - 1 To (CSSD-F1000GBMP600MCR) sur Materiel.net ! Paiement en 3X dès 100€, livraison rapide ou retrait en magasin | SSD 1 To, PCI-Express 4.0 4x, M.2 NVME, CSSD-F1000GBMP600MCR.
Which, at least on this website (I'll keep looking around), only comes in 1 TB, but is marginally cheaper, probably because the slightly larger form-factor makes it marginally easier for designer. Or maybe just because two items can't be of the same price. Whatever.
Coupled with an adapter as mentioned
, I think this time I'm finally onto something that'll work for my nephew.Thanks to
Santa@remi's Little Helpers!
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@remi I have vague memories of the 2242 form factor being for something specific in the beginning, like cameras or some such crap, might be why it's cheaper? Or the form factor is just more common than 2230 these days? Or it's just simply that the manufacturer had more of them around so they got rid of them for less?
Or some salesdroid just made it cheaper for no reason at all.
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@Carnage The price difference is 10 EUR (130 vs. 120) so frankly at that point it could just be one batch delivered one day earlier and the price having been inflation-adjusted during the night.
Even on the manufacturer's website the 2242 doesn't exist in 2 TB, which might also make sense if the intended use case was a bit more specific than the 2230 (so there'd be less demand for variations).
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@Carnage said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
Amazon deserves to die in a fire for being such a horrible mess of a UI, a chinesium delivery pipeline and full of scammers.
QFT. Nothing to add to the discussion, I just felt a need to agree loudly in a random forum.
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You can find up to 512GB here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Transcend-256-SATA-Type-2260/dp/B00KLTPWJE?th=1
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@cheong yeah, that's the kind of things I found but:
- 512 GB is really the minimum I'd consider, I'd rather add at least 1 TB
- 512 GB is actually unavailable (only up to 64 GB is actually available) (of course maybe I could find it elsewhere)
- 64 GB is priced at about 150 bucks i.e. the same price as 1 TB in 2230/2242 so I'm not even trying to guess how much 512 GB would cost!
Thanks anyway.
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@remi Is there a reason deeper than
for not just replacing the 2280 drive? If you could get a 2TB drive for the price of a 512GB 2260 (as it sounds like from a skim), the added 1TB difference might be enough of an incentive for the kid to reinstall Windows by themself.
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@acrow Good point. I mentioned in the OP that I was considering buying a large 2280 and whatever small 2260 I could get, but I could indeed just go for a single large 2280. I was thinking about keeping 2 separate disks, mostly because... well I don't really know why but it seems sane(r). System vs. data etc. I've got to admit there isn't a real justification for that. The
did play a role as I was hoping for a straight plug & plray thing.In any case, it's a bit of a moot point because while 2260 disks are prohibitively expensive, 2230/2242 disks are about the same price as 2280 (maybe 10-20 bucks more expensive but not much more). So I'd be forking out the same amount of money for a smaller total capacity (since he would loose his current (512 GB) 2280 disk). Plus there is the whole reinstall thing, which definitely isn't a deal-breaker, but also definitely is a bit (!) of added hassle.
The only advantage of swapping the 2280 is that I could get him a much larger disk (4 TB or even 8 TB). But the cost being roughly linear with capacity, we're talking 400-500 bucks for 4 TB or 1000 bucks for 8 TB, which is way more than what I want to spend (his whole laptop is probably worth less than that!). In the end, I'll probably go for 1 TB, on price reasons mostly (and he told me that would be enough for him).
So a 2230/2242 will cost me the same as a 2280, he'll keep the capacity of his current disk, and avoid a system reinstall.
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@remi said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
I've got to admit there isn't a real justification for that.
Yes there is. Backups. And for backing up school files, a small disk will do. (Unless the kid studies photography. But if he does, nothing will ever be enough anyway.)
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@acrow External disks are better for backup anyway.
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@dkf As long as they're network-attached, so you can automate the backing up of things. Because backups that require user action have a long history of dying under
.
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@acrow said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
@dkf As long as they're network-attached, so you can automate the backing up of things. Because backups that require user action have a long history of dying under
.Hence, Microsoft OneDrive
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@acrow said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
Backups.
Meh.
Yes, you're
. But he already has OneDrive, DropBox and whatever dozens of services are already being pushed to him (including github for his code). Plus some external drives, which of course he just doesn't use (like you said, if it's not automatic it's not happening). Plus most of his stuff at this point is just Steam games. All in all, I feel that either he has a proper backup policy, or he doesn't -- if he does, he'll find a way regardless of whether he has one or two disks, if he doesn't having two disks won't really help him.But yeah, that's one reason that's floating in the back of my mind about why I'd rather give him a second disk rather than replace the single one he has. Even if it likely won't change much, it's one (tiny) reason.
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@acrow said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
@dkf As long as they're network-attached, so you can automate the backing up of things. Because backups that require user action have a long history of dying under
.Network-Attached is nice but not required.
Windows Task Scheduler --> Batch File
No
user-action required. Every night, while I'm sleeping, everything automatically gets backed up to an external drive and that external drive gets backed up to another external drive, and once a week Macrium Reflect creates an image of Drive C: which also gets backed up, because .... why not.Hard drives are big and (relatively) inexpensive. There is no excuse for not having multiple redundant backups.
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@Gern_Blaanston Yes, yes, you can technically leave a laptop hooked up to your desk and powered on indefinitely. But since in this instance it was possessed by a young person, I'm going to assume that they'll unhook it regularly, and potentially play all around the house. The "user action" specifically meant the daunting task of connecting a USB cable every time you wanted a backup done.
Whereas if you backup to a NAS, you can make it pull the backup from the laptop over the home WiFi whenever it's in range (ETA: automatedly, of course).
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@acrow said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
Whereas if you backup to a NAS, you can make it pull the backup from the laptop over the home WiFi whenever it's in range (ETA: automatedly, of course).
In this case there's the added difficulty that said youngster doesn't live with his parents anymore. He definitely hasn't got the space, money etc. to set up his own NAS in his room (I mean, it's not technically unfeasible, but in practice... it's just not going to happen). Thankfully he goes back home regularly (more or less every weekend, currently), so an automatic backup on the home NAS would work.
And knowing my brother, I assume that he has set it up that way. Whether my nephew has not tinkered with the settings in a way that broke it is another question. Then again, he's old enough to learn by himself that he fucks up his backups... well, though luck.
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@remi said in How large is your, erm, M.2?:
Then again, he's old enough to learn by himself that he fucks up his backups... well, though luck.
Until you lose data through not having it backed up, you don't really understand the importance of having backups. It's best learnt when it is easy to fix (just with a few days of effort) rather than difficult/expensive... but don't tell him that! The acute pain is a vital component of the lesson!
