Rem(a)inders of a Previous War
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In some other thread, someone could hardly believe that UXOs (unexploded ordinances) are a threat in many places of the world, even when the last war was long ago.
Here in central europe, bombs are found every couple of days. Some may be mentioned in the regional section of a newspaper, and if casualties happened, even on a more prominent place.Just now, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reports that a 250 kg bomb was found in Hanau (just east of Frankfurt). A hospital and a home for the elderly will be evacuated, and then the bomb will be deactivated.
Weltkriegsbombe in Hanauer Innenstadt gefunden
In der Hanauer Innenstadt ist eine 250 Kilogramm schwere Weltkriegsbombe entdeckt worden. Umfangreiche Sicherungsmaßnahmen sind eingeleitet worden. Die Evakuierung einer Klinik sowie eines Altenheims in der Nähe wird vorbereitet.
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The Baltic sea still barfs up the odd sea mine as well. When I was a kid, it was way more frequent but they still seem to pop up. And that's just one of the water ways that got them deployed. I saw that some half a million naval mines are still out and about in the seas of the world from WWII alone.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
someone could hardly believe that UXOs (unexploded ordinances) are a threat in many places of the world
239 tonnes of it was destroyed last year and the EOD service went out on 2,284 calls in just the westernmost corner of B*****m alone.
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There are still a few places in north-eastern France that are no-go zones because of unexploded ammos from WW1. Some places are also so polluted that nothing grows there, because of the chemicals either leeched during the war, or in the years after when destroying the huge stocks (in particular of chemical weapons) that were left.
One source says that even today, around 500 tonnes of ammos are recovered each year in France (from WW2 as well as WW1). Though that number probably includes all rusted-almost-beyond-recognition bits of metal that are picked up by specialists. But actual bombs that are blown up as a method of destroying them is very common.
So yeah, it's still very much a thing. Thankfully WW1/2 did not use as many anti-personnel mines as modern wars, at least we don't get too many of those...
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@remi said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
Thankfully WW1/2 did not use as many anti-personnel mines as modern wars, at least we don't get too many of those...
People and animals still occasionally get blown up today in Egypt and Libya by mines laid in the desert in 1940–43, though.
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@Gurth
Hey! I was going to reference that. For those with a limited historical view: this is mainly 100 year old artillery shells. Not exactly clear from the article but yes in 2017 the army found it still necessary to create a brand new installation to be able to safely dispose of chemical shells, as this is expected to remain a necessary thing in high enough volumes for a few decades to come.
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@BernieTheBernie Yeah, and sometimes it does not work out so well. When I was still at university in Göttingen, they found such a bomb and evacuated the area.
They then proceeded to try to determine whether to disarm the bomb or detonate it in place.
During this examination the bomb blew up and killed three demolitions experts.
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The amount of explosives dropped on Laos alone in the Vietnam war is bigger than that of all parties of WW2 taken together. It's quite normal to see those injuries in daily life; I used to go cycling with a guy who lost an arm to a cluster munition.
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When I was a kid there were some knolls near my house. Some 10m high, with trees growing on all of them. Local kids used to play there a lot, me included.
When I was in high school one of the trees grew out a root and uncovered a mortar shell. Sappers were called, they took away the shell and inspected area around... turned out those hills were not hills at all, but artillery munitions stashes covered with some 1m of soil. Tons and tons of explosives.
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The Toxic Waste Pit Next Door - Washingtonian
It was the back yard that sold Christine Dieterich on the yellow brick Cape Cod on Glenbrook Road. She fell in love with the terraced gardens, pictured her children racing around outside and traversing the little bridge across a...
WWI Munitions Cleared From Spring Valley Neighborhood
The most toxic site in the Spring Valley neighborhood in Northwest D.C. is completely cleaned and safe to build on again decades after chemicals and munitions were found buried there, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers announced Tuesday, but there are still years of work left to do.
Took about 30 years to get it completely cleaned up. Allegedly.
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@boomzilla quoted in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
The most toxic site in ... Northwest D.C.
Since this isn't the
, I will refrain from comparing it to the toxicity of D.C. as a whole. 
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@boomzilla I can't remember if they've finished clearing all the dumped chemical/biological waste in this area... from the 19th century. It was waste from some factories and was frequently dumped in old surface mine workings and covered over to the point where people didn't immediately fall through. What's in it? Nobody knows, and there was never any documentation, but it's guessed that it could be anything from random toxic tars to anthrax spores. But it's "fun" to watch any time a developer decides to try to get permission to build on suspiciously open space around the city, does a quick exploratory drill, and then immediately switches to "NOPE! NOPE! NOPE!" mode. The worst bits have been gradually cleaned up over time... probably. Or maybe they've just had concrete rafts put over the top so that at least the site can be used for light industry.
But at least we don't have munitions and were never really bombed much either (the city's industrial base was busy in the wars, but uniform manufacturing wasn't ever a high priority target for the enemy).
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@dkf said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
uniform manufacturing wasn't ever a high priority target for the enemy
It's much
hardermore difficult to know who you're supposed to shoot if all the soldiers are naked.
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@HardwareGeek What happens in reality is that the soldiers just wear tattered uniforms or even just a strip of cloth around the arm to pretend. It's simply not a high priority for the opponent's military planners.
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Game Idea -
Iron Harvest- farming/UXB simulator. Maybe a pre-phase where you can try to put the ordnance where it'll be the most entertaining in future.
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@dkf said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
@HardwareGeek What happens in reality is that the soldiers just wear tattered uniforms or even just a strip of cloth around the arm to pretend.
That’s not pretend, but allowed under international law: the only thing lawful combatants really need is a distinctive piece of clothing that officially designates them as such. An armband of a specific design is enough. These men are officially soldiers in uniform, and thus, lawful combatants:
OTOH, if they were to take the armbands off and use those Panzerfausts against an enemy tank, they would be unlawful combatants and not subject to laws regarding prisoners of war if captured by the enemy.
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@LaoC said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
The amount of explosives dropped on Laos alone in the Vietnam war is bigger than that of all parties of WW2 taken together. It's quite normal to see those injuries in daily life; I used to go cycling with a guy who lost an arm to a cluster munition.
I can't find the number of bombs for WWII but the allies dropped 3.4M tons on the axis, and it seems Laos got about 2M tons dropped on it in the Vietnam war, so this statement seems false. Laos seems to be the singular most bombed country though.
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@Carnage "Bombs" in Laos were much smaller, so get many more small bombs per ton of bombs.
And mines...
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@Carnage said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
@LaoC said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
The amount of explosives dropped on Laos alone in the Vietnam war is bigger than that of all parties of WW2 taken together. It's quite normal to see those injuries in daily life; I used to go cycling with a guy who lost an arm to a cluster munition.
I can't find the number of bombs for WWII but the allies dropped 3.4M tons on the axis, and it seems Laos got about 2M tons dropped on it in the Vietnam war, so this statement seems false. Laos seems to be the singular most bombed country though.
2.5M according to the US State Department but yes, it's more by number but somewhat less by tonnage if you include the ones dropped by the Axis powers.
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And the next one, or rather 3: in Laatzen near Hannover, from WW II:
Laatzen: Bomben aus Weltkrieg werden entschärft
In Laatzen bei Hannover sind drei mögliche Fliegerbomben aus dem Zweiten Weltkrieg entdeckt worden. Wegen der Entschärfung haben am Sonntag rund 20.000 Menschen ihre Wohnungen verlassen.
Yes, every couple of days, despite those 70 years inbetween...
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@BernieTheBernie said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
And the next one, or rather 3: in Laatzen near Hannover, from WW II:
My grand-uncle may have dropped one of those...
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It's True! A toilet was used as an aerial bomb during the Vietnam War | War History Online
On November 4, 1965, some Vietnamese came across a very strange object that looked as if it had been dropped from the sky. Was it a bomb? Well, it had
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@boomzilla In that vein:
The Beer-Barrel Bombers - Keg Carrying Spitfires Brought Pale Ale To The Troops At The Front | War History Online
Only a few days after the Allied invasion of Normandy on D-Day, the dust and heat of the tortured area stirred up quite a thirst in the British boys on
Or, of course:
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A few bombs were found near Rüdesheim. Currently, Europe's busiest railway route, the federal road B42 nearby, and also the Rhine river are closed.
Bombenfund bei Rüdesheim: Alle vier Bomben entschärft
Vier Bomben aus dem Zweiten Weltkrieg haben am Dienstagnachmittag bei Rüdesheim zu umfangreichen Sperrungen der Verkehrswege zu Lande, zu Wasser und sogar in der Luft geführt. Am frühen Abend konnte Entwarnung gegeben werden.
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@Gurth said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
OTOH, if they were to take the armbands off and use those Panzerfausts against an enemy tank, they would be unlawful combatants and not subject to laws regarding prisoners of war if captured by the enemy.
A historian friend from Afghanistan claimed that this was superseded, that even if they were not wearing uniforms (or in this case, just armbands) that they were still subject to the laws regarding prisoners of war, though this is apparently disputed by the U.S..
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@jinpa said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
@Gurth said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
OTOH, if they were to take the armbands off and use those Panzerfausts against an enemy tank, they would be unlawful combatants and not subject to laws regarding prisoners of war if captured by the enemy.
A historian friend from Afghanistan claimed that this was superseded, that even if they were not wearing uniforms (or in this case, just armbands) that they were still subject to the laws regarding prisoners of war, though this is apparently disputed by the U.S..
:soldier: Well, he certainly wasn't wearing an armband when we caught him.
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@PleegWat This turned out to be most relevant regarding the prisoners at Abu Ghraib. His primary concern was not the pseudo-torture, but the length of their incarceration relevant to their role as fighters. Apparently if some of them had been regarded as prisoners-of-war proper, they would have been released by that time.
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@jinpa said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
A historian friend from Afghanistan claimed that this was superseded, that even if they were not wearing uniforms (or in this case, just armbands) that they were still subject to the laws regarding prisoners of war
Things like the Hague and Geneva Conventions only apply to wars between signatory countries anyway. None of the parties fought by the Coalition in Afghanistan were countries, nor had they signed those conventions (for the obvious reason of not being countries) so those rules didn’t apply in any case. Which doesn’t mean soldiers can just go and kill everyone they like instead of taking them prisoner, though, or mistreat prisoners — basic humanitarian concerns etc. still apply.
though this is apparently disputed by the U.S..
The USA is notably not a signatory to a number of international treaties regarding the conduct of war and the prosecution of war criminals. I think it was Bush Jr. who at one point all but threatened to invade the Netherlands should an American be brought to trial before the International Criminal Court? Not to mention, as you say, all those people held without trial in places like Guantanamo Bay.
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Military missile spent over 100 years as a garden decoration in Wales - UPI.com
A bomb squad was called to a home in Wales when a decoration that had adorned the garden for over a century was identified as a 19th century military bomb.
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@Gurth said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
The USA is notably not a signatory to a number of international treaties regarding the conduct of war and the prosecution of war criminals. I think it was Bush Jr. who at one point all but threatened to invade the Netherlands should an American be brought to trial before the International Criminal Court? Not to mention, as you say, all those people held without trial in places like Guantanamo Bay.
Actually, as I remember, he had a law passed forcing him or any future president to take military action (up to and including an invasion) if a US citizen was held in prison on request of the ICC.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act
SEC. 2008. of the Act authorizes the President of the U.S. "to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any person described in subsection (b) who is being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court". The subsection (b) specifies this authority shall extend to "Covered United States persons" (members of the Armed Forces of the United States, elected or appointed officials of the United States Government, and other persons employed by or working on behalf of the United States Government) and "Covered allied persons" (military personnel, elected or appointed officials, and other persons employed by or working on behalf of the government of a NATO member country, a major non-NATO ally including Australia, Egypt, Israel, Japan, Argentina, the Republic of Korea, and New Zealand).
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Apperley Bridge: Train disruption after wartime bomb discovered
Train services between Leeds and Shipley were disrupted on Tuesday due to the find.
They just keep coming...
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@dkf said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
Train services between Leeds and Shipley were disrupted on Tuesday due to the find.
They just keep coming...
The second in a week...
Thousands of people were displaced as the 500kg bomb was transported through Plymouth.
inb4 "why was a garden detonated at sea?"
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@loopback0 said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
inb4 "why was a garden detonated at sea?"
I don't know, but they found a bomb because of it.
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@loopback0 said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
inb4 "why was a garden detonated at sea?"
Because commas were particularly hard hit by the recent inflation and are now too expensive to waste on titles.
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@Bulb said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
@loopback0 said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
inb4 "why was a garden detonated at sea?"
Because commas were particularly hard hit by the recent inflation and are now too expensive to waste on titles.
The thread tax hurts everyone, everywhere.
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@Gurth said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act
SEC. 2008. of the Act authorizes the President of the U.S. "to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any person described in subsection (b) who is being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court". The subsection (b) specifies this authority shall extend to "Covered United States persons" (members of the Armed Forces of the United States, elected or appointed officials of the United States Government, and other persons employed by or working on behalf of the United States Government) and "Covered allied persons" (military personnel, elected or appointed officials, and other persons employed by or working on behalf of the government of a NATO member country, a major non-NATO ally including Australia, Egypt, Israel, Japan, Argentina, the Republic of Korea, and New Zealand).
Ok, a little late, but I have just noticed...
If a dutch man from Haag commits war crimes and is apprehended, POTUS is obliged to invade Netherlands to free him from Haag and ensure his safe return to Haag?
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
a dutch man from Haag
Den Haag. Or 's Gravenhage, if you want to be posh.
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@PleegWat said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
's Gravenhage
Also: not s’Gravenhage, as some foreigners are inclined to write. The apostrophe indicates elision in the first word,
desDes.
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@Gurth Capital D. It's part of a place name.
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Totally forgot about this yesterday:
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@Gurth said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
Totally forgot about this yesterday
and you couldn't do that today as well?
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@Luhmann Misery shared is misery halved.
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@Gurth Misery shared is misery doubled, except your own is mitigated by watching the other people suffer.
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@dkf Geen mooier vermaak dan leedvermaak
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Woman finds live grenade while cleaning out deceased father's home in Knowlton, Que.
A woman cleaning out her deceased father's home in the Quebec town of Knowlton made a bombshell discovery on Friday – she found a live grenade.
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Could also have been posted in another thread:
"We went into his tool room, which was always, like, nobody ever went into his tool room. That was a sacred place," she said. I was looking for something, and then I opened up the toolbox, and there was a grenade."
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@Zerosquare ¡Tabernak!
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@Zerosquare said in Rem(a)inders of a Previous War:
Could also have been posted in another thread:
then it would have been a TOOL room and there would have been beer.
OPERATION LEG
