CSS doesn't make much sense anymore
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@ixvedeusi no, but the linter will scream at you if you use it
and tailwind would prevent you mistakenly using _webkitonly_unstable_onlyfortesting_attribute when you want your styling to be compatible
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@ixvedeusi said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@sockpuppet7 said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
tailwind
did they drop support for the
style
HTML attribute when I wasn't looking?No, they mostly just renamed it to class, but with some safety rails.
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@Watson yes.
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@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Wasm + a canvas
Yay, let's pull in a full-fledged and highly complex document layout engine complete with all the bells and whistles, and then use it to fill the screen with a dumb canvas so that I can draw the individual pixels again!
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@ixvedeusi said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Yay, let's pull in a full-fledged and highly complex document layout engine complete with all the bells and whistles, and then use it to fill the screen with a dumb canvas so that I can draw the individual pixels again!
The concept of a canvas is great; there are a whole bunch of things you can do with it that you can't really do any other way.
The specific details of the HTML canvas are full of and .
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@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
But if you go from red to green in a rebrand exercise (which absolutely does happen), you’re fucked.
Oh come on that's easy, just add one more stylesheet:
.red-600 { background-color: #0f0 !important; }
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@ixvedeusi said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Wasm + a canvas
Yay, let's pull in a full-fledged and highly complex document layout engine complete with all the bells and whistles, and then use it to fill the screen with a dumb canvas so that I can
draw the individual pixels again!reinvent a full-fledged and highly complex UI framework complete with all the bells and whistles
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@dkf said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
The concept of a canvas
Is one of the most basic building blocks an OS provides. So what's the point of putting a web browser in between in the first place?
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@Applied-Mediocrity kinda, only it's not a joke.
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There are legitimate uses for shipping a canvas object as a thing the web browser offers, e.g. so you can bundle something dynamic and interactive as part of otherwise a document. Think interactive charts for example.
And you might want to leverage all the other good stuff the browser offers without building a native app multiple times over.
But I do feel like the Wasm + canvas approach does have too many layers that don’t need to be there.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@ixvedeusi said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Wasm + a canvas
Yay, let's pull in a full-fledged and highly complex document layout engine complete with all the bells and whistles, and then use it to fill the screen with a dumb canvas so that I can
draw the individual pixels again!reinvent a full-fledged and highly complex UI framework complete with all the bells and whistlesSee Google Docs, Google Sheets as real world examples of this exact phenomenon.
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@ixvedeusi said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Is one of the most basic building blocks an OS provides.
No, the OS provides a surface on which you can draw. And on which you need to draw when it tells you to. Canvases are an abstraction of that that do things like graphics permanence (so you're not forever feeding the beast of the redraw loop).
They'd be much better if they had some notion of objects within them, including routing of events like mouse clicks to the "current" object. But the HTML canvas doesn't do any of that, which is a shame because that stuff is annoying to write...
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@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
There are legitimate uses for shipping a canvas object as a thing the web browser offers, e.g. so you can bundle something dynamic and interactive as part of otherwise a document. Think interactive charts for example.
Interactive mapping is an excellent use case for a canvas. Sure you can find other ways to do it, but a canvas gives a much better experience.
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@dkf I don’t think Google Maps works that way given the popups you can add on top but yes, it’s definitely one argument in its favour.
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@Arantor The stuff on top is not necessarily done in the canvas — you can put ordinary HTML blocks over the top of course — but they definitely use a canvas for the actual map layers. Doing raw tiling of images instead just sucks; early internet-based mapping was done that way and it was always horrible.
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@dkf said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Arantor The stuff on top is not necessarily done in the canvas — you can put ordinary HTML blocks over the top of course — but they definitely use a canvas for the actual map layers. Doing raw tiling of images instead just sucks; early internet-based mapping was done that way and it was always horrible.
Huh, I know there was a period you actually couldn’t overlap elements onto a canvas but I guess they relaxed that.
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@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
I know there was a period you actually couldn’t overlap elements onto a canvas but I guess they relaxed that.
You probably need to do positioning shenanigans, but Google Maps is making a lot of use of divs over a canvas (and obviously has been doing for ages). That's actually pretty great because it means they don't need to redo the whole HTML layout engine in the browser (which would be territory).
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@dkf GMaps is old enough to pre-date the canvas so it might have done back in the day, but now it’s far more cromulent.
I do remember seeing a clone of Lemmings done in pure div fuckery back in the day though.
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@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
I do remember seeing a clone of Lemmings done in pure div fuckery back in the day though.
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@dkf it’s even still up.
https://www.elizium.nu/scripts/lemmings/ - circa 2004. Even just about works on an iPad.
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@dkf said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
I know there was a period you actually couldn’t overlap elements onto a canvas but I guess they relaxed that.
You probably need to do positioning shenanigans, but Google Maps is making a lot of use of divs over a canvas (and obviously has been doing for ages). That's actually pretty great because it means they don't need to redo the whole HTML layout engine in the browser (which would be territory).
This is frustrating. There isn't a UI toolkit that feels right
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@PleegWat said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@dkf said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@PleegWat said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Just the ones in warning dialogs.
And only in the important warning dialogs.
Your semantic classes carry that distinction?
Yes, usually it is called
fatal error
At least that's how these 99% of users interpret these labels.
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@sockpuppet7 said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@accalia if that list came from your heart there would be "include a fox image somewhere" in one of those bullets
naw. that's only true if it's one of my sites
or a fellow foxxo apreciator's
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@accalia said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
or a fellow foxxo apreciator's
Misread that as "foxpro"...
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@dkf said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Misread that as "foxpro"...
I'd love to learn (just) enough about Foxpro to export some data from it. The application that uses it as its backend isn't capable of exporting (or the export format doesn't support; I don't remember for sure, because it's been years since I looked into it) all of the data that's in the DB.
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@dkf said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@accalia said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
or a fellow foxxo apreciator's
Misread that as "foxpro"...
my condolences.
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@HardwareGeek said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Tsaukpaetra said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
period cum end of table
Waiter! I'll have what he's having.
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@sockpuppet7 said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@dkf said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
I know there was a period you actually couldn’t overlap elements onto a canvas but I guess they relaxed that.
You probably need to do positioning shenanigans, but Google Maps is making a lot of use of divs over a canvas (and obviously has been doing for ages). That's actually pretty great because it means they don't need to redo the whole HTML layout engine in the browser (which would be territory).
This is frustrating. There isn't a UI toolkit that feels right
Bring back Amiga Workbench, all is forgiven.
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@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Bring back Amiga Workbench, all is forgiven.
Does the name imply that I'd have to do work?
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Bring back Amiga Workbench, all is forgiven.
Does the name imply that I'd have to do work?
No. Whats wrong with you? Why do you scare us like that?
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Bring back Amiga Workbench, all is forgiven.
Does the name imply that I'd have to do work?
It implies the bench does the work.
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@dkf said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
I know there was a period you actually couldn’t overlap elements onto a canvas but I guess they relaxed that.
You probably need to do positioning shenanigans, but Google Maps is making a lot of use of divs over a canvas (and obviously has been doing for ages). That's actually pretty great because it means they don't need to redo the whole HTML layout engine in the browser (which would be territory).
I’ve been sat here playing with my GMaps integration where it does custom shenanigans and needed to debug it.
Turns out on Firefox, both on the developer examples on Google’s own site, and in mine, it’s using positioned divs all the way down…
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@topspin said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Applied-Mediocrity said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
@Arantor said in CSS doesn't make much sense anymore:
Bring back Amiga Workbench, all is forgiven.
Does the name imply that I'd have to do work?
It implies the bench does the work.
It does, and does so with Intuition.