Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™
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@dkf said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
Signing on macOS is a pain (or rather it's very tied to Xcode so it is a pain).
Oh, that is nothing. is that it requires an account, which is always tied to a physical person. If that person leaves the company, you need to get new account (or move the existing one, which is very painful).
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@Kamil-Podlesak Some years ago when I worked on an app that eventually got built for iOS (debugging was done mostly on Windows or Android, but iOS was primary production platform), I don't think we associated our accounts with the signing profile. And the signing profile was somehow set up on the shared Macs, and we had automated builds that did even the signing (on an (under-the-)desktop Mac because Mac servers don't exist, but it was a script executed by the build server over ssh). Which does not mean the account wasn't associated with the technical leader—I don't know—but it was treated effectively as a technical account.
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@Bulb said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
@Kamil-Podlesak Some years ago when I worked on an app that eventually got built for iOS (debugging was done mostly on Windows or Android, but iOS was primary production platform), I don't think we associated our accounts with the signing profile. And the signing profile was somehow set up on the shared Macs, and we had automated builds that did even the signing (on an (under-the-)desktop Mac because Mac servers don't exist, but it was a script executed by the build server over ssh). Which does not mean the account wasn't associated with the technical leader—I don't know—but it was treated effectively as a technical account.
I don't really know (nor do I want to know) exact details, but it makes sense that the process is quite different for iOS application, which have then additional approval layer(s) in App Store.
I should also mention that our application contains kernel module, so having proper Apple certification is quite important.
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@Kamil-Podlesak I see. And to be honest I suppose the iOS appstore account is also tied to specific representative, just the developers working with it can be somewhat shielded from the problems.
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@Bulb said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
@Kamil-Podlesak I see. And to be honest I suppose the iOS appstore account is also tied to specific representative, just the developers working with it can be somewhat shielded from the problems.
Mea culpa, I have skipped the part. Of course, it is possible to do the signing by an automated build (it needs to be done on a Mac, but that is not really a problem).
So yeah, developers are shielded... until the build starts to fail, because Apple decided that there are changes and require some additional hoops to jump through before the signing can be done again.
Which is the point where everyone realizes that the only person to do that is X, who left the company half a year ago. Fun!
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@Kamil-Podlesak Yeah, it's … Apple as usual.
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@Bulb said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
because Mac servers don't exist
Although the last model was released in 2009... And Apple seems to have pretty much discontinued the free-standing macOS Server app after axing feature after feature.
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@Atazhaia it’s not unheard of for some places to offer rack-mounted Mac Minis at this point.
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@Applied-Mediocrity Amazon literally offer this though… https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/mac/
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@Arantor TIL. I thought only put dicksauce.com on Minis, because 1U fits a dozen of them or something.
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Makes me wonder WTH Apple themselves use for lack of servers.
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@Arantor said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
@Atazhaia it’s not unheard of for some places to offer rack-mounted Mac Minis at this point.
It appears that Apple started to support it at some point. Probably they realized that those pesky programmers are going to insist on having build servers anyway. But I remember some continuous integration provider at one point wrote a post about how apple all but discontinued servers and that they had to hack it together to be able to provide macos builders.
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@Bulb said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
It appears that Apple started to support it at some point. Probably they realized that those pesky programmers are going to insist on having build servers anyway. But I remember some continuous integration provider at one point wrote a post about how apple all but discontinued servers and that they had to hack it together to be able to provide macos builders.
You don't need a build server. You have Xcode.
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@dkf said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
You have Xcode.
I don't. And I'm very happy about that.
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@dkf yes but people want to do stupid things like 'collaborate' and 'work together'. Pfft. Apple only works with the elite hipster geniuses who do everything by themselves!
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@dkf said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
@Bulb said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
It appears that Apple started to support it at some point. Probably they realized that those pesky programmers are going to insist on having build servers anyway. But I remember some continuous integration provider at one point wrote a post about how apple all but discontinued servers and that they had to hack it together to be able to provide macos builders.
You don't need a build server. You have Xcode.
XCode isn't that bad. At least it does have a command-line interface that allows building the package including signing. But some years ago we tried to support an abomination called Samsung Bada. And for that we didn't manage to implement a headless build at all. It even got so far we asked support and they were like “why would you do that?”. Thank God that insanity hasn't caught on.
Of course the point of build server on multi-platform projects like that is that the developers almost never test all the platforms before checking in. After all there is no way to build both Windows CE and iOS versions on the same computer. And because the Eclipse-based Bada IDE was crap, nobody ever wanted to test that in particular, so we needed some build. We managed to almost work it around. The compiler was gcc (g++), so I just fished the compiler options out of the IDE and set up CMake (which we used for all the other platforms) to build all the code except the platform-specific entry point into a library, and that could be done on the build server. But release still had to be done by hand. Well, fortunately we ended up not even ever publishing an update, because the platform died. Good riddance.
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@Bulb said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
It even got so far we asked support and they were like “why would you do that?”
Though in fairness I could easily imagine Apple saying this, following it up with "You're building it wrong." It feels like the sort of thing Apple might do.
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@Arantor There is Apple dumb, and then there is Samsung dumb, which is like dumb∞.
Though I have to give one thing to apple: only allowing one store account per company and 100 test devices per store account is a really developer-friendly policy, especially if the developers need to appease FDA—that takes a helluva lot of devices.
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@Bulb said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
Samsung Bada.
Sounds like it's-a bad-a.</voice="Mario">
Filed under: Bada-boom!
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@Bulb Have done the Apple store account thing, made sure to make the company founder the store account owner on the theory that whichever goes first, the other will follow shortly after.
It's annoying, it's tedious, it's all things Apple.
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@Arantor The other VeryApple™ thing is the long and obnoxious rules applications must follow to be admitted to the store, and the review process that largely depends on which reviewer gets you this time around and how well they slept.
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@Bulb said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
which reviewer gets you this time around and how well they slept.
It's Apple. They're 20-something hipsters with
espressogrande, quad, non-fat, one pump, no whip, mocha instead of blood; they never sleep.
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@topspin said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
Makes me wonder WTH Apple themselves use for lack of servers.
Who needs a server when you have the
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Apropos of the whole Apple thing--
Our company has 5 supported apps (2 different ones on each of android, iOS, plus one windows client) as well as the "cloud" backend (running on AWS). We generally release weekly-ish (if there's something to release for a given client, which isn't always the case, especially for the windows client).
Of the 6 releases, the cloud one is the most labor intensive. But most of that is making sure it's all documented so that rollbacks can happen without downtime. And is heavily automated. It affects something like 50 containers in each of three environments (EU, primary, and latam), with 7-ish databases (including multiple MYSQL databases that need schema changes frequently, as well as a couple Cassandra/NoSQL databases).
The second most labor intensive is the primary iOS release, in part because it's still using the old manual signing workflow. That has a single repo, and involves hitting a button on a team member's local machine. But xCode has to be exactly the right versions, and tends to fall over dead if things happen with Git (like new packages being used or new files). Because xCode and Git play even less well nice than most things and Git. And then uploading and preparing the release for review is obnoxious.
The third most labor intensive is the secondary iOS release. That one's using the automated signing workflow.
All the rest are rounding errors. Android is literally "hit a job in Jenkins, check to make sure it succeeds. Done." You can even fire one job that does both the android releases together.
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@dkf said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
You have Xcode.
You're standing in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
In your hands is the venerable artefact called XCODE, of which many tales had been told, most using curse words many-syllabled and long-forgotten.
Scattered across these caves in a series of SCROLLS, the sacred SPELL OF RELEASE PROCESS is said to be hidden here. Only a being pure of HIG, APPLE TAX, and IN-APP PURCHASES can find them all! Are you up to the task?
Exits are due NORTH, EAST, WEST and SOUTH.
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@Arantor said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
@Atazhaia it’s not unheard of for some places to offer rack-mounted Mac Minis at this point.
Even though you can get an official rack-mounted version of the Mac Pro. Although a Mac Pro does cost about 10x what a Mac mini does, and is still Intel CPU-based...
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@Atazhaia as I linked, Amazon offers both Intel and Mx based Minis for compute, and they’re quite explicit about them being Minis, probably because it’s cheaper to buy a bigger fleet of Minis than a fleet of Pros for their use case.
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@Arantor said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
@Atazhaia as I linked, Amazon offers both Intel and Mx based Minis for compute, and they’re quite explicit about them being Minis, probably because it’s cheaper to buy a bigger fleet of Minis than a fleet of Pros for their use case.
Those should be relatively happy racked up anyway, as they won't generate anything like as much heat as a normal Anthill-based server.
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@topspin said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
Makes me wonder WTH Apple themselves use for lack of servers.
What do the Apples use when they do not have an Apple Office Suite?
And so, they use Microsoft Server.
Does Microsoft make more money with Windows Server for Apple than with Windows Server for Windows environments?
Just asking
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@BernieTheBernie said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
What do the Apples use when they do not have an Apple Office Suite?
The premise of your question is failed. There is an office suite.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
What do the Apples use when they do not have an Apple Office Suite?
Actually used by my boss, for some reason, even though the organisation as a whole got MS365.
Edit:
Edit2: Also managed to post the edit as a reply... Goddamn friday end-of-workweek tiredness.
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This post is deleted!
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@dkf said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
The premise of your question is failed. There is an office suite.
There is also MS Office for macs. Or they could run Windows machines.
But from the complaints above, they cannot run builds on a Windows or Linux server, so they probably need some Mac stuff in some way.
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@HardwareGeek said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
@Bulb said in Re: The Official Funny Getting Started with Python Thread™:
Samsung Bada.
Sounds like it's-a bad-a.</voice="Mario">
Filed under: Bada-boom!