What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...
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So I'm looking at getting a used car, one of them certified pre-owned dealios, where someone drove it
into the groundgently and sold it to the dealer for pennies on the dollar.This used car salesman I'm talking to keeps saying he needs to talk to his manager about the price I'm offering.
I thought it was all commission based sales, whatever he can get above what the dealership paid (minus handling maybe), he pockets... So what exactly are they going on about in the sales manager's office?
More details:
- This is all done virtually, due to COVID, so he could give me any excuse under the sun. He could be praying to any number of deities, for all I know, instead of talking to his manager.
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For bonus points: CARFAX says the original owner got a repair estimate for damage to the front right quarter, but no insurance claim or police report.
Drove on it for another year before selling. Red flag?
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
So what exactly are they going on about in the sales manager's office?
The documentary Futurama has published an expose of what goes on in the manager's office:
FUTURAMA | Season 2, Episode 10: Amy Goes Car Shopping | SYFY – 01:46
— SYFY
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
That's what a VPN is for
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
Oh right, I forget you live in a country that's too polite for YouTube
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@dangeRuss I tried lowballing my VPN provider, and he said he needed to talk to his manager. What do they talk about in there anyway?
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss I tried lowballing my VPN provider, and he said he needed to talk to his manager. What do they talk about in there anyway?
Just set up your own VPN. With blackjack and hookers.
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss I tried lowballing my VPN provider, and he said he needed to talk to his manager. What do they talk about in there anyway?
How much they can sell your browsing data for.
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@loopback0 said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss I tried lowballing my VPN provider, and he said he needed to talk to his manager. What do they talk about in there anyway?
How much they can sell your browsing data for.
To an alphabet agency. And not just the one that owns google.
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@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
blackjack and hookers.
What do you think I need the VPN for?
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Guys, can we stay on topic here? Don't make me use my mod powers and fork this topic 6 ways from Sunday.
/s (I don't have any mod powers)
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
For bonus points: CARFAX says the original owner got a repair estimate for damage to the front right quarter, but no insurance claim or police report.
Drove on it for another year before selling. Red flag?
If the cost of repair was less or not much more than his deductible he might have decided to pay out of pocket. Not worth the ding on your insurance record for little or no payout from them.
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@boomzilla said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
Not worth the ding on your insurance record for little or no payout from them.
My insurance? Shirley the insurance claim wouldn't carry over through to my premiums since I didn't even own the car then, no?
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@boomzilla said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
Not worth the ding on your insurance record for little or no payout from them.
My insurance? Shirley the insurance claim wouldn't carry over through to my premiums since I didn't even own the car then, no?
General-person-your, not specifically-you-your.
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@boomzilla said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
Not worth the ding on your insurance record for little or no payout from them.
My insurance? Shirley the insurance claim wouldn't carry over through to my premiums since I didn't even own the car then, no?
Impersonal "your."
It's generally not worth the ding on your insurance record for little or no payout from them.
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And as far as talking to the manager, they may have a minimum price for the car that they can accept without talking to the manager.
Or he's just stalling to see if you want it bad enough to come up a bit.
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@Carnage well, there's one way to find out... I'll reach out again closer to end of month...
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
So what exactly are they going on about in the sales manager's office?
To answer your question rather than going off on 73 different tangents, it's a standard negotiating ploy. Salesman says the price is X0; you offer Y0. Salesman leaves to "ask manager if he'll accept Y". Salesman comes back with "he won't accept Y0, but he'll go as low as X1." You increase Y to Y1. He goes to "ask his manager" again, and comes back with X2. You increase Y to Y2. He "asks his manager" again; this time he might come back with X3, but only if you purchase the extended warranty, or purchase it right now — "sure, you can talk about it with your wife — here's a phone — but that great price is only valid while you're sitting here; you won't get it if you leave and come back tomorrow" — or something like that.
There may or may not be an actual manager involved in the discussion, because the salesman knows damn well how low an offer he's permitted to accept, but putting the acceptance in the hands of the manager, real or imaginary, deflects your attempts to negotiate onto a 3rd party you never interact with face to face. If there is an actual manager involved, they may be discussing futbol, or hookers and blow, or what a crappy negotiator you are, but the 5 or 10 minutes the salesman keeps you waiting is almost certainly not being spent discussing your offer.
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@julianlam do you have a lot of Karens in the area, and did the car salesperson need to guilt you into anything?
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@mikehurley said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@boomzilla said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
Not worth the ding on your insurance record for little or no payout from them.
My insurance? Shirley the insurance claim wouldn't carry over through to my premiums since I didn't even own the car then, no?
General-person-your, not specifically-you-your.
I meant specifically-you-your.
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@HardwareGeek said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
So what exactly are they going on about in the sales manager's office?
To answer your question rather than going off on 73 different tangents, it's a standard negotiating ploy. Salesman says the price is X0; you offer Y0. Salesman leaves to "ask manager if he'll accept Y". Salesman comes back with "he won't accept Y0, but he'll go as low as X1." You increase Y to Y1. He goes to "ask his manager" again, and comes back with X2. You increase Y to Y2. He "asks his manager" again; this time he might come back with X3, but only if you purchase the extended warranty, or purchase it right now — "sure, you can talk about it with your wife — here's a phone — but that great price is only valid while you're sitting here; you won't get it if you leave and come back tomorrow" — or something like that.
There may or may not be an actual manager involved in the discussion, because the salesman knows damn well how low an offer he's permitted to accept, but putting the acceptance in the hands of the manager, real or imaginary, deflects your attempts to negotiate onto a 3rd party you never interact with face to face. If there is an actual manager involved, they may be discussing futbol, or hookers and blow, or what a crappy negotiator you are, but the 5 or 10 minutes the salesman keeps you waiting is almost certainly not being spent discussing your offer.
When we went to negotiate for our first car, it was late in the day (and I believe the salespeople stayed after closing) and we could not agree on a number. We basically got kicked out with them saying that I guess we didn't want to make a deal or something to that effect. It was well past closing at this point anyway. The next day or so, the manager called us back and apologized and I believe was able to come down further.
So everything is a negotiating tactic.
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
For bonus points: CARFAX says the original owner got a repair estimate for damage to the front right quarter, but no insurance claim or police report.
Maybe the damage was self-inflicted (e.g. hit a wall) and they've had liability insurance only, so nothing to report to either police or insurer.
Red flag?
Absolutely. No more than damage with claim and police, but every damage is a red flag.
As a more general advice, I found that certified pre-owned are rarely good deals. 12 months of warranty is way too short to make a difference - even in non-certified cars, except the immediately obvious stuff, any problems will only going to happen a year or two down the line, and the immediately obvious stuff you can sue for even without explicit warranty. The only time a certified used car is a good idea is if it's 1-2 years old - there's a certain kind of people who change their cars very often, who also don't wear the car down too much. But not 3 year olds - those are usually post-leasing company cars so they were working hard and the maintenance was minimal.
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@Gąska said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
The only time a certified used car is a good idea is if it's 1-2 years old
When it's still under the original manufacturer warranty anyway.
@Gąska said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
But not 3 year olds - those are usually post-leasing company cars so they were working hard and the maintenance was minimal.
IME it's more likely you'll find a car that was maintained properly during its lease. The lease company generally require that, especially as it's a requirement of keeping the original manufacturer's warranty intact and the lease company has the most interest in keeping the value of the car as high as possible.
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Oh, yeah, regarding the damage, check for weird shit in wheel wells and under front plastics. Might be a backyard fudge fix. Or it might be nothing. I would definitely make sure that there is a 100% buyback if an independent mechanic says es no bueno.
Great haggling point though.
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@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
So everything is a negotiating tactic.
Yeah I figured this was the game, but he counter-offerred with... The asking price.
I waited a few and messaged back with a slightly higher offer than last time, but still no budging (said asking price or nothing). Either they're really unable to sell the 2018 Mazda3 GS (that's the "sport" model, for you freedom folk) for less than ~$15k CAD, or he thinks he can find some other sucker to pay sticker price for this car...
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@Gąska said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
As a more general advice, I found that certified pre-owned are rarely good deals. 12 months of warranty is way too short to make a difference
I believe Mazda offers the balance of the manufacturer warranty, plus a separate CPO warranty, but I'd need to confirm. I think after two years it's just the powertrain warranty with any time left.
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
So everything is a negotiating tactic.
Yeah I figured this was the game, but he counter-offerred with... The asking price.
I waited a few and messaged back with a slightly higher offer than last time, but still no budging. Either they're really unable to sell the 2018 Mazda3 GS (that's the "sport" model, for you freedom folk) for less than ~$15k, or he thinks he can find some other sucker to pay sticker price for this car...
I hear it's a sellers market right now. With a shortage of silicon due to higher than normal demand on PCs due to the pandemic + shortage of graphic cards and everybody and their grandma wanting to buy a car because who wants to ride the bus anymore? Maybe wait until pandemic is over and I imagine once buses are safe to take again, people are going to be selling off the cars they no longer need.
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@Gąska said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
But not 3 year olds - those are usually post-leasing company cars so they were working hard and the maintenance was minimal.
You're right about this, a lot of the ones we're seeing online were fleet or rental vehicles with high mileage. The one I made an offer on was low mileage with 1 owner, so seemingly a rarity, but if it looks too good to be true...
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@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
shortage of graphic cards
definitely a thing that affects automotive production. Are you Alex, drunk, wearing a pussy hat?
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
So everything is a negotiating tactic.
Yeah I figured this was the game, but he counter-offerred with... The asking price.
I waited a few and messaged back with a slightly higher offer than last time, but still no budging (said asking price or nothing). Either they're really unable to sell the 2018 Mazda3 GS (that's the "sport" model, for you freedom folk) for less than ~$15k CAD, or he thinks he can find some other sucker to pay sticker price for this car...
He's waiting for you to come up on your own. You are the one with all the real negotiation power, not him. If he doesn't give you the deal you want, take your money and go. Let him stew for a week or two while you're looking for other objects. Make him come back to you.
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@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
shortage of graphic cards
definitely a thing that affects automotive production. Are you Alex, drunk, wearing a pussy hat?
Graphic cards need chips, cars need chips.
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@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
shortage of graphic cards
definitely a thing that affects automotive production. Are you Alex, drunk, wearing a pussy hat?
Graphic cards need chips, cars need chips.
they're not the same chips
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@dangeRuss on a semi-related note, it really took until the pandemic for me to realize just how many cars people in my neighborhood own.
Last spring when everybody was stuck at home, it seemed like every single house in my neighborhood had three cars.
Meanwhile my wife and I were puttering around on one shared vehicle, ubering if necessary. We only decided on a second car because we have two children now.
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@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
shortage of graphic cards
definitely a thing that affects automotive production. Are you Alex, drunk, wearing a pussy hat?
Graphic cards need chips, cars need chips.
they're not the same chips
I Was RIGHT!!!! (and I hate it) - Semiconductor Shortage Explained – 13:29
— Linus Tech Tips
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@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
shortage of graphic cards
definitely a thing that affects automotive production. Are you Alex, drunk, wearing a pussy hat?
Graphic cards need chips, cars need chips.
they're not the same chips
If the speed of the infotainment system is any indication, they're probably the same chips they put in smart
TVs
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@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss on a semi-related note, it really took until the pandemic for me to realize just how many cars people in my neighborhood own.
Last spring when everybody was stuck at home, it seemed like every single house in my neighborhood had three cars.
Meanwhile my wife and I were puttering around on one shared vehicle, ubering if necessary. We only decided on a second car because we have two children now.
We have two cars and almost never use the 2nd one. I should've probably sold it a long time ago, but it is useful every so often when I need a larger cargo space.
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@dangeRuss sigh. is this going to end with rare earths? someone's sitting on those again?
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@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss sigh. is this going to end with rare earths? someone's sitting on those again?
Equipment I think. There is no capacity left to produce more chips (and it takes a shitload of money for new factories).
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@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss sigh. is this going to end with rare earths? someone's sitting on those again?
Equipment I think. There is no capacity left to produce more chips (and it takes a shitload of money for new factories).
Yeah, you order well in advance. Everyone seemed to bet on purchases going down, so ordered less. When they wanted to order, all the foundries were already cranked up to 11, so they got what they ordered.
Not only is it very expensive to build the factories, it takes a lot of time.
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@dangeRuss indicates at length, a lack of correlation between graphics cards and automotive production shortfalls.
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@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss indicates at length, a lack of correlation between graphics cards and automotive production shortfalls.
Does it? I believe he says that both things basically get produced in the same factories, and both underestimated demand and didn't order enough chips.
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@dangeRuss so far (and there's the end), automotive shortfall has been laid at the feet of automotive producer purchase predictions, vs actual production. The ICANN bus is a different enough animal than PC buses that the chips literally are pretty different. Discrete components vanish during cost engineering, or they would overlap more.
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@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
So everything is a negotiating tactic.
Yeah I figured this was the game, but he counter-offerred with... The asking price.
I waited a few and messaged back with a slightly higher offer than last time, but still no budging. Either they're really unable to sell the 2018 Mazda3 GS (that's the "sport" model, for you freedom folk) for less than ~$15k, or he thinks he can find some other sucker to pay sticker price for this car...
I hear it's a sellers market right now. With a shortage of silicon due to higher than normal demand on PCs due to the pandemic + shortage of graphic cards and everybody and their grandma wanting to buy a car because who wants to ride the bus anymore? Maybe wait until pandemic is over and I imagine once buses are safe to take again, people are going to be selling off the cars they no longer need.
The line I overheard while I was at the dealership (shopping for a new car) was that rental car companies are buying up a bunch of the barely used cars to restock the inventory they sold off into the maw of last year.
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@izzion said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@julianlam said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
So everything is a negotiating tactic.
Yeah I figured this was the game, but he counter-offerred with... The asking price.
I waited a few and messaged back with a slightly higher offer than last time, but still no budging. Either they're really unable to sell the 2018 Mazda3 GS (that's the "sport" model, for you freedom folk) for less than ~$15k, or he thinks he can find some other sucker to pay sticker price for this car...
I hear it's a sellers market right now. With a shortage of silicon due to higher than normal demand on PCs due to the pandemic + shortage of graphic cards and everybody and their grandma wanting to buy a car because who wants to ride the bus anymore? Maybe wait until pandemic is over and I imagine once buses are safe to take again, people are going to be selling off the cars they no longer need.
The line I overheard while I was at the dealership (shopping for a new car) was that rental car companies are buying up a bunch of the barely used cars to restock the inventory they sold off into the maw of last year.
It's probably foreign capital cleaning itself.
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@loopback0 said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
IME it's more likely you'll find a car that was maintained properly during its lease.
My Polish upbringing is showing.
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@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
they're not the same chips
They're made by the same manufacturers
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@TimeBandit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
they're not the same chips
They're made by the same manufacturers
This isn't even established in yon video, not even to this point. Caps, sure. How many caps do you ⧘tolerate⧙ in a board layout? And they're different caps still b/c different EMF and power and bus and ye gods, it's not just a computer on wheels.
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@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@TimeBandit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
they're not the same chips
They're made by the same manufacturers
This isn't even established in yon video, not even to this point. Caps, sure. How many caps do you ⧘tolerate⧙ in a board layout? And they're different caps still b/c different EMF and power and bus and ye gods, it's not just a computer on wheels.
Here's the relevant part:
He basically said that the auto manufacturers didn't order enough thinking that demand would go down and by the time they realized that it went up, it was too late. The manufacturing capacity went to someone else. Now is that someone else another auto manufacturer or are they making PC chips, that's not clear.
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@dangeRuss said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@TimeBandit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
@Gribnit said in What do they talk about at the dealership sales manager's office anyway...:
they're not the same chips
They're made by the same manufacturers
This isn't even established in yon video, not even to this point. Caps, sure. How many caps do you ⧘tolerate⧙ in a board layout? And they're different caps still b/c different EMF and power and bus and ye gods, it's not just a computer on wheels.
Here's the relevant part:
He basically said that the auto manufacturers didn't order enough thinking that demand would go down and by the time they realized that it went up, it was too late. The manufacturing capacity went to someone else. Now is that someone else another auto manufacturer or are they making PC chips, that's not clear.
or whether the specialized fab that would have had the capacity, wound down its buys or did layoffs.
