Just another day at Bethesda
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@serguey123 said:
FTFY@Zylon said:
@MiffTheFox said:
I never said any genres were going away-- just that PC games would become more like those for Android and iOS rather then those for Xbox and PlayStation.
Touch screens will never, ever become popular for desktop computing.Human natureCheetos guaranteesthis.FTFY
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@Zylon said:
@serguey123 said:
FTFY
No, you just made it dumb and wrong and fixed nothing.
Are you sitting in front of a desktop computer right now? Try holding your arm up and lightly resting a finger on the center of your monitor. Now hold it there for, say, a minute. Now imagine doing that all day.
Touch computing works fine for handheld devices, where operating them takes little more than wrist movement. For the desktop though, it's an ergonomic trainwreck.
Better start training with two full buckets of water, one in each hand, arms stretched out right in front of you, and holding that for half an hour. Of course, each time you lower or twitch, it's 5 minutes extra. Only when you master that, you'll be allowed to use a touchscreen desktop computer!
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@Zylon said:
Are you sitting in front of a desktop computer right now? Try holding your arm up and lightly resting a finger on the center of your monitor. Now hold it there for, say, a minute. Now imagine doing that all day.
Why the hell would you set up a touch screen in the same manner as a display only screen? Wouldn't it make more sense to orient it at an angle and height like that of a drafting table?
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@Zylon said:
@serguey123 said:
FTFY
No, you just made it dumb and wrong and fixed nothing.
That is also human nature ;)
Are you new to this forum?
@Zylon said:
Are you sitting in front of a desktop computer right now? Try holding your arm up and lightly resting a finger on the center of your monitor. Now hold it there for, say, a minute. Now imagine doing that all day.
Touch computing works fine for handheld devices, where operating them takes little more than wrist movement. For the desktop though, it's an ergonomic trainwreck.
Do you also lack imagination?
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@locallunatic said:
Why the hell would you set up a touch screen in the same manner as a display only screen? Wouldn't it make more sense to orient it at an angle and height like that of a drafting table?
Congratulations, now you have a tilted desk that dumps everything onto the floor, and you have to reach over/around the keyboard to touch the screen.
Or perhaps you meant putting only the monitor down at desk height, angled up. Now you're in violation of correct ergonomic monitor placement, which should place the top of the monitor at eye level. And you're back to having to lift your arm to reach over the keyboard.
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@Zylon said:
@locallunatic said:
Why the hell would you set up a touch screen in the same manner as a display only screen? Wouldn't it make more sense to orient it at an angle and height like that of a drafting table?
Or perhaps you meant putting only the monitor down at desk height, angled up. Now you're in violation of correct ergonomic monitor placement, which should place the top of the monitor at eye level. And you're back to having to lift your arm to reach over the keyboard.
If you are using the monitor for things other than just display would that not effect the proper ergonomic placement? Though it would seem to interfere with normal keyboard layout, hadn't thought of that. I was more seeing the possibility of them being used in a different manner than what you are describing (kinda like the Wacom Cintiq set up that people use, though that is a pen rather than touch input).
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Um... you know consumer desktop touchscreen PCs already exist right?
Windows 8 is just the final nail in the coffin.
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I tried yesterday and I could get the PC version of Skyrim to remap WASD to the arrow keys wihtout any problem, so... What's the problem again?
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@Zylon said:
What keyboard? Isn't the whole point of a touchscreen to get rid of the keyboard?@locallunatic said:
Why the hell would you set up a touch screen in the same manner as a display only screen? Wouldn't it make more sense to orient it at an angle and height like that of a drafting table?
Congratulations, now you have a tilted desk that dumps everything onto the floor, and you have to reach over/around the keyboard to touch the screen.
Or perhaps you meant putting only the monitor down at desk height, angled up. Now you're in violation of correct ergonomic monitor placement, which should place the top of the monitor at eye level. And you're back to having to lift your arm to reach over the keyboard.
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@Rootbeer said:
I've had similar issues with indie games, particularly those programmed by Edmund McMillen. The OS X build of "Super Meat Boy" assumes I have an Xbox 360 controller (why would I?), and doesn't even let me see what the keyboard equivalents of each gamepad button are. "The Binding of Isaac" is slightly better, in that the keyboard controls are at least disclosed to the player, but still unreconfigurable, and it suggests that if I want to map to a gamepad I should use "Joy2Key", which is a Windows-only program.
At least indie developers have the excuse of limited resources.
So limited, in fact, were the resources, that the developers didn't have a keyboard. They coded with an Xbox 360 controller.
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Today in Thread Hijacking Attempts, can someone explain to me the appeal of Meat Boy? It's just a Platformer With An Interesting Mechanic. Surely its popularity can't all hinge on the wall-cling aspect, even of the game itself does so 100%? I played the flash version a while back for a bit, and said, Meh, and went to make a sandwich.
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@dhromed said:
Today in Thread Hijacking Attempts, can someone explain to me the appeal of Meat Boy? It's just a Platformer With An Interesting Mechanic. Surely its popularity can't all hinge on the wall-cling aspect, even of the game itself does so 100%? I played the flash version a while back for a bit, and said, Meh, and went to make a sandwich.
The appeal for me was that it's a very "quick" platformer...you have to have good reflexes and control to succeed in the later levels. It's one of those 100%er games - by that I mean there are tons of things to collect that demand mastery of the mechanics to achieve, which you can only obtain by playing a lot. I stopped about 80% through the story (40% through the game) but I can see the retro appeal in it.
Back to the first topic of derailment, I don't understand the point of merging mobile and desktop OSs. I suppose the main advantage is that software developed for one will work on the other too. Is cost an issue - as in a company now needs a less broad range of programming skills? It also means that all our OSs will be running on a VM of some sort, so performance is dropping down a notch or two for the sake of homogeneity. From my perspective the possible advantages don't outweigh the cost of redoing something that already works.
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@dhromed said:
Today in Thread Hijacking Attempts, can someone explain to me the appeal of Meat Boy? It's just a Platformer With An Interesting Mechanic. Surely its popularity can't all hinge on the wall-cling aspect, even of the game itself does so 100%? I played the flash version a while back for a bit, and said, Meh, and went to make a sandwich.
Dude, you need to lower your expectations, nothings compares to a sandwich!
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@dhromed said:
can someone explain to me the appeal of Meat Boy?
If you're going to be playing platform games at least play a decent one.
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@lettucemode said:Back to the first topic of derailment, I don't understand the point of merging mobile and desktop OSs. I suppose the main advantage is that software developed for one will work on the other too.
That is doubtful as the hardware specs are too diferents for the whole ecosystem
@lettucemode said:
Is cost an issue - as in a company now needs a less broad range of programming skills?
Cost is always an issue, if not, offshoring would not exist
@lettucemode said:
It also means that all our OSs will be running on a VM of some sort, so performance is dropping down a notch or two for the sake of homogeneity.
I have not heard anything regarding this, AFAIK, they will look the same to provide an unified experience with a common UI, apps and information but they will be different OSes versions (I'm mostly talking about Windows OS here, I'm not that familiar with Android to make educated guesses)
@lettucemode said:
From my perspective the possible advantages don't outweigh the cost of redoing something that already works.
Challenge yourself, the sky is the limit, "just works" isn't enough!
Also if we go by that mantra we won't be getting any jobs or progress because MS-DOS 5.0 "just works" ( I loved 6.22 and XTreeGold)
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@PJH said:
What keyboard? Isn't the whole point of a touchscreen to get rid of the keyboard?
The point of a touchscreen is to provide a "good enough" substitute for a mouse and keyboard so that you can deliver a compact mobile device.Once you're sitting at a desk, with plenty of room for the aforementioned superior input devices, the arguments in favor of a touch screen are tenuous at best.
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@lettucemode said:
Back to the first topic of derailment, I don't understand the point of merging mobile and desktop OSs.
"Man, this app is kinda cool. I wish I could use it on my desktop computer as well."
@lettucemode said:
I suppose the main advantage is that software developed for one will work on the other too.
You don't see the point of cars, but you guess the main advantage is their use as transportation devices?
"Hey, let's merge mobile and desktop OSs. But apps from one platform won't work on the other. So we're not actually merging them! But we are merging them!"
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@lettucemode said:
[meat boy] demand mastery of the mechanics to achieve
So, the bit where you stick to walls for half a second and thus have a unique double-jump?
That was where I went Meh.
So no, I really can't say Meat Boy is a good platformer by any means.
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@DOA said:
@dhromed said:
can someone explain to me the appeal of Meat Boy?
If you're going to be playing platform games at least play a decent one.It's okay. I watched the video clips on youtube.
As far as platforming goes, AssCreed is kinda great. There's really no other way to call the parkour-aspect of AC: it's platforming. And I love it.
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@serguey123 said:
@lettucemode said:
Back to the first topic of derailment, I don't understand the point of merging mobile and desktop OSs. I suppose the main advantage is that software developed for one will work on the other too.
That is doubtful as the hardware specs are too diferents for the whole ecosystem
Sorry, I meant in terms of mobile apps. As in an app released on the Windows Phone Marketplace will also work exactly the same on the new Windows PC. To my knowledge this is how iPhone apps work. This is where a VM is needed.
@serguey123 said:
@lettucemode said:
From my perspective the possible advantages don't outweigh the cost of redoing something that already works.
Challenge yourself, the sky is the limit, "just works" isn't enough!
Also if we go by that mantra we won't be getting any jobs or progress because MS-DOS 5.0 "just works" ( I loved 6.22 and XTreeGold)
The difference I see is that the advantages of a mouse and keyboard setup vastly outweigh the cost of moving to that setup from MS-DOS 5.0.
@Zylon said:The point of a touchscreen is to provide a "good enough" substitute for a mouse and keyboard so that you can deliver a compact mobile device.
Once you're sitting at a desk, with plenty of room for the aforementioned superior input devices, the arguments in favor of a touch screen are tenuous at best.
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@dhromed said:
@lettucemode said:
Back to the first topic of derailment, I don't understand the point of merging mobile and desktop OSs.
"Man, this app is kinda cool. I wish I could use it on my desktop computer as well."
@lettucemode said:
I suppose the main advantage is that software developed for one will work on the other too.
You don't see the point of cars, but you guess the main advantage is their use as transportation devices?
"Hey, let's merge mobile and desktop OSs. But apps from one platform won't work on the other. So we're not actually merging them! But we are merging them!"
I am not aware (or informed) that running the same exact app on mobile device and on a desktop computer is in high demand. If there is sufficient demand for a certain app to be used everywhere then the developers can respond to it and write the new version or just stick it on a webpage. Evernote did it.
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@Zylon said:
The point of a touchscreen is to provide a "good enough" substitute for a mouse and keyboard so that you can deliver a compact mobile device.
Once you're sitting at a desk, with plenty of room for the aforementioned superior input devices, the arguments in favor of a touch screen are tenuous at best.
You have it backwards. Touch is not some ineffectual stopgap solution in case the Great Keyboard and Perfect Mouse aren't available. The keyboard is a pretty clunky legacy device from typewriters, and the only reason the mouse was developed is because viable touchscreen technology did not exist.
Touch is an interaction model that overlaps with that of keyboard and mouse. It's neither strictly superior not strictly inferior to KB&M. Things like multitouch are completely unattainable with just a mouse cursor, and generally the whole user experience of Touch vs KB&M is different, which makes touch preferrable over the "classic" way of doing things, in certain circumstances.
The exact same goes for game controllers.
That said, I'm glad the mouse was invented, because as a pointing device, it has several advantages over, for example, a touchpad the size of your mousepad. But we'll see what the future brings.
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@lettucemode said:
I am not aware (or informed) that running the same exact app on mobile device and on a desktop computer is in high demand.
I'm not sure the demand is high either. But at the very least, if you're an OS maker, exposing an API of sorts in your desktop OS that is an exact duplicate of the one you use on your mobile devices seems to me like an obvious, basic thing to do.
You know, so you can copy Angry Birds from your celly to my program folder and I can play it. Just like that™.
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@dhromed said:
@Zylon said:
The point of a touchscreen is to provide a "good enough" substitute for a mouse and keyboard so that you can deliver a compact mobile device.
Once you're sitting at a desk, with plenty of room for the aforementioned superior input devices, the arguments in favor of a touch screen are tenuous at best.
You have it backwards. Touch is not some ineffectual stopgap solution in case the Great Keyboard and Perfect Mouse aren't available. The keyboard is a pretty clunky legacy device from typewriters, and the only reason the mouse was developed is because viable touchscreen technology did not exist.
Touch is an interaction model that overlaps with that of keyboard and mouse. It's neither strictly superior not strictly inferior to KB&M. Things like multitouch are completely unattainable with just a mouse cursor, and generally the whole user experience of Touch vs KB&M is different, which makes touch preferrable over the "classic" way of doing things, in certain circumstances.
To my mind you're both missing the point. Touch and kb&m are both merely limited means of what could be generalised to gesture detection. It's particularly confusing because touchscreens have combined touch-sensing with display, but there's no direct need for that in non-mobile use (although if you have general gesture sensing it would make sense to have direct interactions with the display be part of the UI in what is essentially the same manner as a touch-screen; the difference is that it would not be the only input). We currently don't have any such system, but if you're talking about major advances we need true three-dimensional visual workspaces with full gesture sensing within them and tactile feedback - essentially something very close to a true virtual reality.
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@dhromed said:
@lettucemode said:
I am not aware (or informed) that running the same exact app on mobile device and on a desktop computer is in high demand.
I'm not sure the demand is high either. But at the very least, if you're an OS maker, exposing an API of sorts in your desktop OS that is an exact duplicate of the one you use on your mobile devices seems to me like an obvious, basic thing to do.
You know, so you can copy Angry Birds from your celly to my program folder and I can play it. Just like that™.
I agree. I remain unconvinced that this reason alone is enough to warrant dramatically changing the user experience for everyone.
@dhromed said:
@Zylon said:
The point of a touchscreen is to provide a "good enough" substitute for a mouse and keyboard so that you can deliver a compact mobile device.
Once you're sitting at a desk, with plenty of room for the aforementioned superior input devices, the arguments in favor of a touch screen are tenuous at best.
You have it backwards. Touch is not some ineffectual stopgap solution in case the Great Keyboard and Perfect Mouse aren't available. The keyboard is a pretty clunky legacy device from typewriters, and the only reason the mouse was developed is because viable touchscreen technology did not exist.
Touch is an interaction model that overlaps with that of keyboard and mouse. It's neither strictly superior not strictly inferior to KB&M. Things like multitouch are completely unattainable with just a mouse cursor, and generally the whole user experience of Touch vs KB&M is different, which makes touch preferrable over the "classic" way of doing things, in certain circumstances.
The exact same goes for game controllers.
That said, I'm glad the mouse was invented, because as a pointing device, it has several advantages over, for example, a touchpad the size of your mousepad. But we'll see what the future brings.
This is the crux of the issue, I think.
From my perspective, there is something to be said for physical feedback. When I am typing on a tablet I have to look down every 20 seconds or so because my fingers start slipping around and typing different letters than I want to type. A keyboard has the advantage of physical feedback (keys are physically separated, the F and J keys have little bumps so you know your fingers are in the right place) so I don't have to continually look - I can feel if my hands are in the right place, without thinking about it. This is part of the reason my phone flashes up the letter I just typed because my muscle movements are no longer reliable ways to know if I typed the right thing.
Concerning controllers, if your argument was that touchscreens are on a level playing field I strongly disagree. With a touchscreen, you have tap, hold, swipe, drag, pinch, spread, and orientation motions for input. That's 7 things. My XBox controller has 18 different inputs mechanisms, 4 of which are analog. And again, physical feedback comes into play - I know exactly where my hands are in relation to the controller at all times without having to think about it. Every single motion I perform with a controller is also much, much faster than a swipe on a touchscreen - and that's the point of interfaces, isn't it, to perform needed functions with as little effort as possible? The best mobile games have come up with in terms of controls for more classic games is to project a translucent picture of the controls on the screen. I guess this paragraph is all about the gaming perspective, though.
Having said all that, the user experience is what's important. I concede that there are many, many applications (even games) where a touchscreen is more appropriate. I take issue with touchscreens when Microsoft tells me that the next version of Windows is going to require a silly tablet-like interface, and suddenly the better way to perform the tasks I most regularly perform is gutted in the name of homogenization.
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@lettucemode said:
I take issue with touchscreens when Microsoft tells me that the next version of Windows is going to require a silly tablet-like interface, and suddenly the better way to perform the tasks I most regularly perform is gutted in the name of homogenization.
... and is this something you think has happened? Or is there a missing "in a hypothetical universe where" in that sentence?
Just want to get a gauge on how deluded you are.
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@blakeyrat said:
@lettucemode said:
I take issue with touchscreens when Microsoft tells me that the next version of Windows is going to require a silly tablet-like interface, and suddenly the better way to perform the tasks I most regularly perform is gutted in the name of homogenization.
... and is this something you think has happened? Or is there a missing "in a hypothetical universe where" in that sentence?
Just want to get a gauge on how deluded you are.
Have you seen Windows 8?
An excerpt from Wikipedia: "Windows 8 will contain a new user interface based on Microsoft's design language named Metro. With the new change, the Start Menu was replaced in favor for the new Start Screen, where there are tiles that contain shortcuts to applications, Metro style applications, and updating tiles, similar to Program Manager[29] and Windows Phone."
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@Spectre said:
@MiffTheFox said:
it turns out that emulating the Wii was not very good of an idea.
What? Why?
When's the last time you heard of anyone enjoying a Playstation Move?
And Kinect might as well be renamed "Dance Central Playing Device".
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@lettucemode said:
@blakeyrat said:
@lettucemode said:
I take issue with touchscreens when Microsoft tells me that the next version of Windows is going to require a silly tablet-like interface, and suddenly the better way to perform the tasks I most regularly perform is gutted in the name of homogenization.
... and is this something you think has happened? Or is there a missing "in a hypothetical universe where" in that sentence?Just want to get a gauge on how deluded you are.
Have you seen Windows 8?
An excerpt from Wikipedia: "Windows 8 will contain a new user interface based on Microsoft's design language named Metro. With the new change, the Start Menu was replaced in favor for the new Start Screen, where there are tiles that contain shortcuts to applications, Metro style applications, and updating tiles, similar to Program Manager[29] and Windows Phone."
Ohhh, for fuck sake, this again???
You can fucking disable the Metro interface if you don't like it, is fucking optional. If you like it it will look like Win 7 interface.
I mean, almost every Windows OS lets you revert to a certain degree to the previous interface, I never understood well why people complained so much
@lettucemode said:
Sorry, I meant in terms of mobile apps. As in an app released on the Windows Phone Marketplace will also work exactly the same on the new Windows PC. To my knowledge this is how iPhone apps work. This is where a VM is needed.
I will just assume you don't know how .Net works, read about it.
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@dhromed said:
Today in Thread Hijacking Attempts, can someone explain to me the appeal of Meat Boy?
Jump puzzles. Really hard jump puzzles. That's all.If you don't like jump puzzles, you won't like Meat Boy.
@dhromed said:
It's just a Platformer With An Interesting Mechanic.
Yeah, but I didn't find its mechanic to be all that interesting - wall-clinging/jumping has been around for ages. If you're looking for an interesting game mechanic in Flash, you might try Spewer. It's a fun little puzzle platform, it makes good use of the keyboard and mouse simultaneously, and it doesn't take that long to play through.
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@serguey123 said:
Ohhh, for fuck sake, this again???
You can fucking disable the Metro interface if you don't like it, is fucking optional. If you like it it will look like Win 7 interface.
I mean, almost every Windows OS lets you revert to a certain degree to the previous interface, I never understood well why people complained so much
Oh. yayyyyyyy :3
Though if I may engage in some pedantry apparently it takes a registry modification. It's not exactly presented as an option in the current build of 8.
@serguey123 said:
@lettucemode said:
Sorry, I meant in terms of mobile apps. As in an app released on the Windows Phone Marketplace will also work exactly the same on the new Windows PC. To my knowledge this is how iPhone apps work. This is where a VM is needed.
I will just assume you don't know how .Net works, read about it.
I know about .NET. To my knowledge it takes a recompile to move code from one platform to another, say from mobile to desktop. We were discussing running the same exact executable on both machines and having it work the same way. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Anyway, Bethesda. It's crazy the stuff they do up there. They're crazy.
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@serguey123 said:
I mean, almost every Windows OS lets you revert to a certain degree to the previous interface
So what you're saying is that we're not fucked until Windows 9.
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@lettucemode said:
@serguey123 said:
Ohhh, for fuck sake, this again???
You can fucking disable the Metro interface if you don't like it, is fucking optional. If you like it it will look like Win 7 interface.
I mean, almost every Windows OS lets you revert to a certain degree to the previous interface, I never understood well why people complained so much
Oh. yayyyyyyy :3
Though if I may engage in some pedantry apparently it takes a registry modification. It's not exactly presented as an option in the current build of 8.
Pedant away, that is the de facto config on this fora..
Look, if people want to rant about how "bad" Win 8 is, at least wait until it is released.
@lettucemode said:
I know about .NET. To my knowledge it takes a recompile to move code from one platform to another, say from mobile to desktop. We were discussing running the same exact executable on both machines and having it work the same way. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Anyway, Bethesda. It's crazy the stuff they do up there. They're crazy.
Yes, some level of emulation (there are a couple of alternatives to this such as multiplatform aware apps) would be necessesary in this case but I don't think it will be that slow (at least I hope so).
Ohhh, hmmm, I see, yeah, crazy people at Bethesda.
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@lettucemode said:
@serguey123 said:
And if you'd actually want to run a "Metro-style app", you need to switch to this mode, if I read these things right.Ohhh, for fuck sake, this again???
You can fucking disable the Metro interface if you don't like it, is fucking optional. If you like it it will look like Win 7 interface.
I mean, almost every Windows OS lets you revert to a certain degree to the previous interface, I never understood well why people complained so much
Oh. yayyyyyyy :3
Though if I may engage in some pedantry apparently it takes a registry modification. It's not exactly presented as an option in the current build of 8.
@lettucemode said:
@serguey123 said:
.NET apps can be compiled to CIL, and to native code.@lettucemode said:
Sorry, I meant in terms of mobile apps. As in an app released on the Windows Phone Marketplace will also work exactly the same on the new Windows PC. To my knowledge this is how iPhone apps work. This is where a VM is needed.
I will just assume you don't know how .Net works, read about it.
I know about .NET. To my knowledge it takes a recompile to move code from one platform to another, say from mobile to desktop. We were discussing running the same exact executable on both machines and having it work the same way. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
If you compile to CIL, and all your libraries are either also portable or available on target platform, it will run there. And your app or the user can use NGEN to locally compile the CIL executables/libraries into native code ones for efficiency.
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@Zylon said:
@serguey123 said:
I mean, almost every Windows OS lets you revert to a certain degree to the previous interface
So what you're saying is that we're not fucked until Windows 9.
Kind off, by then, the standard would be the Metro and people would rage about the new UI (let us call it Subway). Perhaps in 3 years (that is the expected lifecycle of win 8) touchscreens will be commonplace and normal pc dinosaurs.
Look, MS will do what MS will do, there is little point in ranting about an unfinished, not yet released product. If when they release it, you have to hack away to make it usable (maybe this is a strategy to win oven the *nix crowd) then either buy or not. If sales drop too much MS will fix it, because no corporation likes to lose money.
What piss me off the most is people inability to embrace change (in my case it helps that I care little about most things) and fucking evolve.
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TL;DR version: Win7 is the new XP, people will stick to it for another 10 years because followup versions are fuckups.
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@serguey123 said:
Perhaps in 3 years (that is the expected lifecycle of win 8) touchscreens will be commonplace and normal pc dinosaurs.
I see you haven't been paying much attention to the detailed explanations of why that can never happen.
Long story short: Touchscreens for content consumption, M+K for content creation (and decent games).
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@dhromed said:
@PJH said:
Well, quite. I wasn't advocating the position - merely postulating the reasoning behind it. About the nearest I'd get is a Fingerworks Touchstream. Which Apple coldly executed by buying the company and bastardising their product by removing the ability to use it as a keyboard. (I may be back later to link to this if/when I remember. 'advertisingbollocks apple magic trackpad' will, for most, probably bring up my post which I intend to link to.)get rid of the keyboard?
from my cold dead hands, you bastardo.
Edit: Here it is - Apple Magic Trackpad
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@Zylon said:
@serguey123 said:
Perhaps in 3 years (that is the expected lifecycle of win 8) touchscreens will be commonplace and normal pc dinosaurs.
I see you haven't been paying much attention to the detailed explanations of why that can never happen.
Long story short: Touchscreens for content consumption, M+K for content creation (and decent games).
It seems that it is you that has not been paying atention. Console ports rings any bell? Have you been paying attention to this thread at all? Look whether mouse and kb are really superior or "in your deluded mind" superior the fact is that touchscreen will take a chunk of the market because not everybody uses the pc in the same way and whatever kinks it has they will be either solved or people will adapt to them (and they will probably become features: become stronger with touchscreens, learn to do a one hand choke hold!!!) or maybe we will ditch it and go for the next new best thing that comes along.
As I said before what bother me is that attitude of avoiding change at all costs, for fuck sake get over it already, a keyboard and a mice are far from perfect, maybe, just maybe there is something better out there.
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@serguey123 said:
As I said before what bother me is that attitude of avoiding change at all costs, for fuck sake get over it already, a keyboard and a mice are far from perfect, maybe, just maybe there is something better out there.
For the task of translating arbitrary thoughts into words on a screen, a full-size, full-stroke, physical keyboard is literally the best solution there is, and will continue to be so until brain-computer interfaces are perfected. All non-keyboard text input technologies put all their energies into attempting to compensate for the fact that they're not a keyboard.As for mice, for precise control they're unassailable. Touch input, while useful in certain specific ways, is inherently precision-limited by the clunky human finger, on touchscreens presents the disadvantage of your hand obscuring what you're doing, and requires physically moving your hand across the entire display surface, which with tablet-sized and larger displays requires significantly more physical effort than using a mouse. Mice are such a simple, fundamental concept -- mapping the motion of your hand directly to motion input -- that any alternative must almost necessarily be more complex and/or labor-intensive.
Airheaded futurists (like you, apparently) are a profoundly irritating affliction on the tech industry. Always more interested in the lastest Shiny New Thing than Getting Shit Done. Hence, for example, the wave of cool-but-useless 3D gesture interfaces after Minority Report came out.
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@Zylon said:
Long story short: Touchscreens for content consumption, M+K for content creation (and decent games).
Except that the poster child system for "content creation"- the Apple Macintosh- is as we speak phasing out mice for a touchpad.
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]For the task of translating arbitrary thoughts into words on a screen, a full-size, full-stroke, physical keyboard is literally the best solution there is, and will continue to be so until brain-computer interfaces are perfected. All non-keyboard text input technologies put all their energies into attempting to compensate for the fact that they're not a keyboard.
I have been using Voice for quite some time and find it quite effective for "arbitrary thoughts", I also know some (Reasonably well established) authors who also use voice.
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@MiffTheFox said:
@Spectre said:
@MiffTheFox said:
it turns out that emulating the Wii was not very good of an idea.
What? Why?
When's the last time you heard of anyone enjoying a Playstation Move?
And Kinect might as well be renamed "Dance Central Playing Device".
Oh, you meant that kind of emulation. I thought you meant [url=http://dolphin-emulator.com/]this[/url] kind, and was thoroughly confused.
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@MiffTheFox said:
Except that the poster child system for "content creation"- the Apple Macintosh- is as we speak phasing out mice for a touchpad.
Holy mother of god you're dumb. First, Apple isn't phasing out mice. Second, as has been explained many times to you, in increasingly smaller, simpler words, touchpads are inherently inferior to mice for performing precision work. Serious content creators will never give them up.@TheCPUWizard said:
I have been using Voice for quite some time and find it quite effective for "arbitrary thoughts", I also know some (Reasonably well established) authors who also use voice.
And what do you use for correction of the inevitable errors that voice transcription induces? Oh yeah-- keyboards. And god help trying to perform editing via a voice interface.
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@Zylon said:
@MiffTheFox said:
Except that the poster child system for "content creation"- the Apple Macintosh- is as we speak phasing out mice for a touchpad.
Holy mother of god you're dumb. First, Apple isn't phasing out mice. Second, as has been explained many times to you, in increasingly smaller, simpler words, touchpads are inherently inferior to mice for performing precision work. Serious content creators will never give them up.Ever heard of trackballs?
http://www.firstpr.com.au/ergonomics/
It seems is not that cut and dried
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SO TO TALK ABOUT SKYRIM FOR A MINUTE
Apparently there's this big "controversy" out there because Skyrim wasn't compiled using optimizations for 64-bit processors. They released a patch a few days ago that replaces the shipping .exe with one compiled with optimizations turned on.
Has anybody noticed even the slightest difference? I'm trying to figure out why so many people have their panties in a bunch over this. Skyrim already only takes maybe 40% of my CPU power (and this computer is no spring chicken!)... what does it matter if that goes down to 38%? Hell, the thing runs flawlessly on a fucking Xbox 360...
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@blakeyrat said:
They released a patch a few days ago that replaces the shipping .exe with one compiled with optimizations turned on.
I thought the change was that they enabled the large address aware flag in the executable, which lets it use up to 4GB (instead of just 2GB) of address space when running on 64-bit Windows (something that hacks were available for before).
