Discussion of NodeBB Updates
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
dealing with neo-nazis in the fediverse
You keep saying this. Do you ever deal with them anywhere else? Seems to me it's a black hole that has corrupted your perception of the world a bit...
I'm coming around to the idea that to Ben, "neo-nazi" and "someone I disagree with on matters that touch me personally" has nearly a total overlap in meaning. And the first has very little to do with people actually advocating the return of the policies of the 3rd Reich. It's a slur, nothing more.
-
@Benjamin-Hall I already told you those tactics won't work. You can stop using them.
-
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@TwelveBaud said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
PSA: The ability to self-service account deletion has been disabled. Deletion requests have to go through the Administration.
that's not a recent change
in fact, I'm not sure if that setting has ever been changed
So @levicki was approved to delete a nice large swath of forum topics and discussion then? Curious.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@TwelveBaud said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
PSA: The ability to self-service account deletion has been disabled. Deletion requests have to go through the Administration.
that's not a recent change
in fact, I'm not sure if that setting has ever been changed
So @levicki was approved to delete a nice large swath of forum topics and discussion then? Curious.
I was not part of any decision on this matter.
-
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Benjamin-Hall I already told you those tactics won't work. You can stop using them.
Ah. See?
That's the last straw. Have fun in your totalitarian echo chamber, @ben_lubar. I'm out. I won't request deletion, but I'll only answer DMs (and those only sometimes) from here on out.
-
@Tsaukpaetra I think because of GDPR everything had to go (hey, lets bring yet another topic into this topic)
-
So this is what happens when you flag admin's post for moderation.
-
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
So this is what happens when you flag admin's post for moderation.
I'm hoping there's far less transphobia, homophobia, and racism from you in the future.
-
@Gąska Just wait 'til you find out what else happened
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@TwelveBaud said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
PSA: The ability to self-service account deletion has been disabled. Deletion requests have to go through the Administration.
that's not a recent change
in fact, I'm not sure if that setting has ever been changed
So @levicki was approved to delete a nice large swath of forum topics and discussion then? Curious.
No. He asked to be deleted. I did it. Honestly I didn't realize that it would delete entire threads.
-
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
So this is what happens when you flag admin's post for moderation.
I'm hoping there's far less transphobia, homophobia, and racism from you in the future.
Banning is an easy way to accomplish that.
Just sayin'.
Only way to stop an echo chamber is to kill off the speakers, right?
-
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@TwelveBaud said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
PSA: The ability to self-service account deletion has been disabled. Deletion requests have to go through the Administration.
that's not a recent change
in fact, I'm not sure if that setting has ever been changed
So @levicki was approved to delete a nice large swath of forum topics and discussion then? Curious.
No. He asked to be deleted. I did it. Honestly I didn't realize that it would delete entire threads.
Thou art pardoned for this accidental transgression then. 
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@TwelveBaud said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
PSA: The ability to self-service account deletion has been disabled. Deletion requests have to go through the Administration.
that's not a recent change
in fact, I'm not sure if that setting has ever been changed
So @levicki was approved to delete a nice large swath of forum topics and discussion then? Curious.
According to GDPR, that's his legal right.
Edit:
-
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
So this is what happens when you flag admin's post for moderation.
I'm hoping there's far less transphobia, homophobia, and racism from you in the future.
So were you talking to gaska in the police thread? Is it really to much to ask you to be forthright in your accusations?
-
@hungrier said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska Just wait 'til you find out what else happened
I hope I can! Tell me, was anything deleted from relevant topics?
Oh, and I'd like to thank everyone for keeping the entire discussion in Google-indexable place. Did you know getting banned means you can't login, and thus can't read the hidden categories? I don't know what I'd do these 6 hours without y'all keeping me company.
-
@Gąska no content was deleted or hidden via any administrative action today
-
@ben_lubar was any content deleted or hidden for other reasons? And what about yesterday? It's past midnight UTC.
-
@Gąska I don't know if users deleted their own posts (they definitely edited them, as seen upthread), but no content was changed by someone other than the person who originally posted it.
Edit: (it's not tomorrow yet for me. there's not some technicality here. I haven't deleted or edited anyone else's content.)
-
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@TwelveBaud said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
PSA: The ability to self-service account deletion has been disabled. Deletion requests have to go through the Administration.
that's not a recent change
in fact, I'm not sure if that setting has ever been changed
So @levicki was approved to delete a nice large swath of forum topics and discussion then? Curious.
No. He asked to be deleted. I did it. Honestly I didn't realize that it would delete entire threads.
When I go out I'm taking cat status, QooC, lifestyle, all the TDWTF Plays threads, off by one, and help bites with me.
-
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
To everyone accusing me of calling people nazi sympathizers:
I never did that.
I posted that using the tactics that neo-nazis (whom I have banned a lot of on the fediverse) try to use to muddy the waters will not work here.
If you're angry that I'm pointing out that tactics you want to use are the same tactics neo-nazis use when they're cornered, that's a sign that you should examine your tactics more closely.
For the record, @ben_lubar, I'm right there with you on this. A number of people in here, intentionally or otherwise, work straight out of the fascist playbook and, as far as I can tell, turned it into an environment indistinguishable from a radicalization front. It's why I fucked right on off out of here, because I couldn't do a damned thing about it.
Ban hard, ban fast, don't let them talk you out of it, and, frankly, talk to Alex about shutting it down forever.
Deplatform hate. Punch nazis.
-
@Weng said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
talk to Alex about shutting it down forever.
-
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska I don't know if users deleted their own posts (they definitely edited them, as seen upthread), but no content was changed by someone other than the person who originally posted it.
Edit: (it's not tomorrow yet for me. there's not some technicality here. I haven't deleted or edited anyone else's content.)
I've only edited for typos. Mobile is shit.
-
@boomzilla mallard autocorrect
-
-
@Weng said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
To everyone accusing me of calling people nazi sympathizers:
I never did that.
I posted that using the tactics that neo-nazis (whom I have banned a lot of on the fediverse) try to use to muddy the waters will not work here.
If you're angry that I'm pointing out that tactics you want to use are the same tactics neo-nazis use when they're cornered, that's a sign that you should examine your tactics more closely.
For the record, @ben_lubar, I'm right there with you on this. A number of people in here, intentionally or otherwise, work straight out of the fascist playbook and, as far as I can tell, turned it into an environment indistinguishable from a radicalization front. It's why I fucked right on off out of here, because I couldn't do a damned thing about it.
Ban hard, ban fast, don't let them talk you out of it, and, frankly, talk to Alex about shutting it down forever.
Deplatform hate. Punch nazis.
The main fascist today has been Ben, as far as I can tell. The bans are bullshit. If today is how it's going to be though, shutting it down is probably the right move.
-
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
So this is what happens when you flag admin's post for moderation.
I'm hoping there's far less transphobia, homophobia, and racism from you in the future.
Fuck it. You’ve gone rogue to often. This faggot is out of here. I’ll only respond to DMs, maybe.
-
I think I liked it more when the mods were
. Even if it meant shameless flamebait in Salon every other day by various non-trolleybus-mechanic users.Hey @ben_lubar, do you want to actually talk about that video you posted and what I find wrong with it, or are you content with showing me my place and want me to shut the fuck up?
-
I want to say that, as a forum regular, who comes here to have fun and complain about work and make jokes. I don't usually try to fight, and I avoid the
topics and categories. I'm actually very much on the left side of things, but I usually avoid talking about it, and I even agree about the toxicity on the fora.All that said: I value our community more than ideology. I read through threads all the time that I disagree with, and yes, sometimes I feel very uncomfortable, sometimes even angry, but I appreciate the chance to see other points of view and hear the reasoning behind them.
More than that, socially, I have a very hard time making friends and meeting people. This is like the only group of people I know that laugh at, or at least understand well enough to groan at, half the jokes I make. All the other IT boards I've seen are somehow even worse toxic hellstew (see: anything Jeff is involved in). I've been building my circle of friends in real life, but their eyes glaze over when I reference IT stuff.
I've been on this site for well over a decade - closer to two. The fact that people are talking about literally shutting the site down scares the hell out of me. Building bots and games for the community is an active hobby for me, and really the reason I do it is because I enjoy interacting with people.
So, I don't want to see this community collapse, even if half the people here are trolls, and the other half are
. I'd feel really isolated without you guys around, even the ones who piss me off from time to time.
-
@error said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
and I even agree about the toxicity on the fora
It might come as surprise to some (who am I kidding, everybody will be surprised), but I agree with that too. I think creating garage was a giant mistake and the first step in killing the original spirit of this community as everyone being united in their hatred of the IT industry.
-
@Gąska On the contrary, I like that we have a place where trolling, heated arguments, off colour jokes, etc are acceptable, especially since you have to opt-in for it.
-
@hungrier said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska On the contrary, I like that we have a place where trolling, heated arguments, off colour jokes, etc are acceptable, especially since you have to opt-in for it.
That would be true if it didn't leak constantly with little to nothing being done about it. When the Garage made me feel unwelcome, I stopped participating in the Garage. When the Garage kept intruding on the rest of my forum experience, I stopped participating in the forum. My impression is that's true for a number of other people as well.
-
@hungrier and yet, it made the community much more hateful, agitated and disrespectful to each other. And non-political posts have drastically shrinked in amount - and I like those the most. Especially heated discussions about programming. They used to be plentiful, and now we have maybe 2 per year.
-
@Gąska It's a containment category, and as far as I can tell, it's been working very well. What hasn't been working well was the Salon, because it was literally the Garage, except worse. It was supposed to be "the Garage except civil", but the topics are so incredibly divisive that even if you initially try to argue them in the best kind of faith you can manage, the discussion will devolve into something incredibly worse than the Garage has ever seen. In the Garage people just tell each other to eat shit and die when they disagree, in the Salon they keep that sentiment while hiding it behind a thin veneer of civility. It doesn't work.
And by the way, I'm not asking to get rid of the Salon because I'm assblasted about something someone said to me there. I've been avoiding the place like a plague for almost as long as it existed, I wrote a couple of posts at the start and then I noped the hell out. It was created as an experiment, and the experiment clearly failed. Let's get rid of it.
-
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@hungrier and yet, it made the community much more hateful, agitated and disrespectful to each other. And non-political posts have drastically shrinked in amount - and I like those the most. Especially heated discussions about programming. They used to be plentiful, and now we have maybe 2 per year.
Spoken like a Rust user!
-
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
non-political posts
To be honest, I feel like this problem is not specific to this forum. I'm seeing more and more extreme and polarized views nationally and even globally, and I feel like the political upheaval is only intensifying over time.
-
@error said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@hungrier and yet, it made the community much more hateful, agitated and disrespectful to each other. And non-political posts have drastically shrinked in amount - and I like those the most. Especially heated discussions about programming. They used to be plentiful, and now we have maybe 2 per year.
Spoken like a Rust user!
Funny thing, I haven't written a single line of Rust in over a year.
-
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@hungrier and yet, it made the community much more hateful, agitated and disrespectful to each other. And non-political posts have drastically shrinked in amount - and I like those the most. Especially heated discussions about programming. They used to be plentiful, and now we have maybe 2 per year.
Spoken like a Rust user!
Funny thing, I haven't written a single line of Rust in over a year.
My name is Gá̵̛͈̦̟̞̗͍̺͂̊͌̔̀͋̑͌͘ska, and it has been one year, two months, six days, and 4 hours since I last used Rust.
-
@blek said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska It's a containment category, and as far as I can tell, it's been working very well. What hasn't been working well was the Salon, because it was literally the Garage, except worse. It was supposed to be "the Garage except civil", but the topics are so incredibly divisive that even if you initially try to argue them in the best kind of faith you can manage, the discussion will devolve into something incredibly worse than the Garage has ever seen. In the Garage people just tell each other to eat shit and die when they disagree, in the Salon they keep that sentiment while hiding it behind a thin veneer of civility. It doesn't work.
And by the way, I'm not asking to get rid of the Salon because I'm assblasted about something someone said to me there. I've been avoiding the place like a plague for almost as long as it existed, I wrote a couple of posts at the start and then I noped the hell out. It was created as an experiment, and the experiment clearly failed. Let's get rid of it.
I agree. It took me all of about 5 minutes to discover that place was worse than the garage. Bad faith arguments delivered smugly in flowery prose.
-
@error said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@hungrier and yet, it made the community much more hateful, agitated and disrespectful to each other. And non-political posts have drastically shrinked in amount - and I like those the most. Especially heated discussions about programming. They used to be plentiful, and now we have maybe 2 per year.
Spoken like a Rust user!
Funny thing, I haven't written a single line of Rust in over a year.
My name is Gá̵̛͈̦̟̞̗͍̺͂̊͌̔̀͋̑͌͘ska, and it has been one year, two months, six days, and 4 hours since I last used Rust.
...because they wouldn't let me!
-
@error said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@blek said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska It's a containment category, and as far as I can tell, it's been working very well. What hasn't been working well was the Salon, because it was literally the Garage, except worse. It was supposed to be "the Garage except civil", but the topics are so incredibly divisive that even if you initially try to argue them in the best kind of faith you can manage, the discussion will devolve into something incredibly worse than the Garage has ever seen. In the Garage people just tell each other to eat shit and die when they disagree, in the Salon they keep that sentiment while hiding it behind a thin veneer of civility. It doesn't work.
And by the way, I'm not asking to get rid of the Salon because I'm assblasted about something someone said to me there. I've been avoiding the place like a plague for almost as long as it existed, I wrote a couple of posts at the start and then I noped the hell out. It was created as an experiment, and the experiment clearly failed. Let's get rid of it.
I agree. It took me all of about 5 minutes to discover that place was worse than the garage. Bad faith arguments delivered smugly in flowery prose.
It's because we've had zero support from moderation. Civilized Salon could work (and did work for the first few weeks), but only if there's someone actually preventing trolls from trolling. And preventing it hard.
If it was up to me, any insult in Salon, any profanity, any joke, anything not 100% serious and respectful would result in 7-day ban from posting in Salon (preferably accompanied by 24h regular ban), and second offense would result in being blocked from Salon permanently (and another 24h ban). That way, Salon would really become troll-free, one way or another.
But that requires mods who care. But what we have is one mod who always talks in riddles and is very selective and inconsistent in what he moderates, one mod who openly says he wants this place gone altogether, and one mod who
.
-
@Gąska eh...obviously the parameters were somewhat vague and different people interpreted it in different ways. I think (and posts in this topic seem to confirm) that different people have different tolerances for disagreement before they start seeing things as hostile or personal attacks.
What I find interesting is that I can no longer see the Salon category but I can get into the police brutality topic and it shows up in the unread and recent lists.
-
@loopback0 said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
and @apapadimoulis who only logs on when he remembers he even has a forum.
It's more reactionary, to emails (best way to reach me) or notification like this (which sometimes send emails).
Anyways, I'll review things as best I can, and act from there. There's a lot to take in, so please email me if there's anything you want me to know.
-
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Gąska eh...obviously the parameters were somewhat vague and different people interpreted it in different ways. I think (and posts in this topic seem to confirm) that different people have different tolerances for disagreement before they start seeing things as hostile or personal attacks.
So let's take the lowest common denominator (lowest tolerance for bullshit of all forum members) and make it the required standard in Salon. It's one of those things where being overzealous is lesser problem than being underzealous. Extremely strict moderation is the only way to make it work. The rest of the forum would continue to function normally.
-
-
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
What I find interesting is that I can no longer see the Salon category but I can get into the police brutality topic and it shows up in the unread and recent lists.
I can't see it in the category list either
-
Or maybe we should get back to fluff tax, but make it mandatory this time.
-
@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
It tells us which post just got @Polygeekery banned.
I guess his quest to be fuehrer of the forums has come to an end.
-
@Gąska said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
and I even agree about the toxicity on the fora
It might come as surprise to some (who am I kidding, everybody will be surprised), but I agree with that too. I think creating garage was a giant mistake and the first step in killing the original spirit of this community as everyone being united in their hatred of the IT industry.
I have noticed participation in the other categories has suffered a very quiet death myself.
Tbh I feel like the rot is simply setting in slowly.
-
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
What I find interesting is that I can no longer see the Salon category but I can get into the police brutality topic and it shows up in the unread and recent lists.
It's Disconsistent
.
-
Wow, what the hell happened while I was
sleepingbusy working very hard on very important things?(no, don’t tell me; I actually read through all this before posting)
I don’t typically speak up about anything, really, so know that a line has defintely been crossed here. Gotta fight the urge to reach for the sweet relief of the “Discard” button…
I’ve seen excess modding in other places and it always sucks. Especially when the actions of the mods do more to cause disruption etc. than any post they react to ever did. The one thing I really want to say here is:
The point of mods is to serve the community. Not to serve themselves.
See the active members of this community saying they’ll leave, or are considering leaving, in response to these actions? That means you have failed. No doubts, no weasel-wording or bullshit about it. Plain and simple.
Perhaps also remember: being blamed for something does not actually mean that the blamers are primarily at fault and are trying to pin it on to someone else. Claiming they are is literally the same behaviour you’re condemning.
That's different!
