Newest tactics in asshole web designs
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@_P_ said in Close enough security:
Might as well throw in some phishing web pages to tell user to "install an extension to prove you're not a robot".
Forking that thread for asshole designs specific thread.
There's a recent new meta tactic to spam users with notifications by tricking users to allow them in web pages. They phish the user by, well, literally saying "click allow to verify that you're not a robot":
The same tactic applies to mobile too, and these notifications are not easy to remove because of how hidden the notification management page is inside Chrome's settings. I've also seen some sites that intentionally blocks the page with a modal background when the notification prompt is activated.
Actually, you can check if notifications is allowed/denied by user, so why not block user from accessing content if they don't allow notifications?
Anti-adblockers could really use some of these big brain strats.
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I would not ever let a web page push notifications, because they really have no fucking business doing that. I hate the feature and would like to drag the people responsible through a cactus field by a barbed wire around their ballsack/tits until it stops being fun.
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@Carnage The entire thing started from background workers (which is another counter-intuitive and weird feature), so you'll have to club that API first. Notifications only make sense with background workers active.
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@_P_ said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Actually, you can check if notifications is allowed/denied by user, so why not block user from accessing content if they don't allow notifications?
Whose bright idea was that? And why doesn't the browser have a "Shadowban" options in addition to the Allow/Deny? I mean, why would the page need to know if notifications are allowed?
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@acrow said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
why doesn't the browser have a "Shadowban" options in addition to the Allow/Deny?
Technically you can dismiss the notification prompt by pressing escape key, but that also counts as a deny.
And you can disable notifications altogether, but it seems that even Google doesn't want you to do that: it's very deep and obscure in the settings (Settings -> Advanced -> Privacy and Security -> Site Settings -> Notifications), and even inside there it says
Ask before sending (Recommended). As a bonus, extensions can enforce entries into the whitelist too, and there are no ways to change or override it.
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@_P_ said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Apparently run by a Russian, hosted in the Netherlands and designed by yet another Kraut?
Looks legit.[Edit: cut the slack]
@acrow said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@_P_ said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Actually, you can check if notifications is allowed/denied by user, so why not block user from accessing content if they don't allow notifications?
Whose bright idea was that?
Educated guess: the
ContentCreators™'? The Productive Members of Society™'s?And why doesn't the browser have a "Shadowban" options in addition to the Allow/Deny?
Wouldn't want to make things toooo complicated for users, right?
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@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I would not ever let a web page push notifications, because they really have no fucking business doing that. I hate the feature and would like to drag the people responsible through a cactus field by a barbed wire around their ballsack/tits until it stops being fun.
Same. I'd really love for browsers to add a 'accept notification and blackhole it' option, because the current design is used by too many sites to keep nagging if you haven't accepted notifications.
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Wow, if Edge still has this idiotic "Forward all Web Notifications to Windows notification API without adding anything like \"FROM EDGE WEB BROWSER\" to their title" misfeature, this is going to be a disaster.
Edit: Looks like they at least corrected that. Well, partially:
To me, "(site name) via Microsoft Edge" should be bigger than the title, and come before it.
Edit2: And the icon should be Edge's, rather than let a website set it.
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I'm annoyed browsers even have notifications, fuck this
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@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I would not ever let a web page push notifications, because they really have no fucking business doing that. I hate the feature and would like to drag the people responsible through a cactus field by a barbed wire around their ballsack/tits until it stops being fun.
Over there in the regex thread we had this argument that JS+electron (shudder) is actually the best tool for portability. So it follows that everything that isn't explicitly platform-specific must be accessible from the browser and all data needs to be in the cloud, for a brave new future.
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@Carnage Welcome to "don't get me started" territory. Beware of tangents.
I quite like having push notifications for general things on a phone. Having an easily-available list of the latest-things-that-happened is good UX. Having each one pop up when it happens while I'm trying to watch Netflix (I found out this is called "peeking") is bad UX.
When I went looking for information on how to disable the peeking behaviour, I found out I needed a special app which (IIRC) required atrocious permissions to run.
So that's where distraction culture is right now: "why wouldn't you want somebody's chattiness to interrupt what you're doing when you're on a train?"
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@topspin To be fair, OS notification is a legitimate feature and even linux distros have it.
is how the same standard was conceived, proposed and implemented in browsers.
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@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I would not ever let a web page push notifications, because they really have no fucking business doing that. I hate the feature and would like to drag the people responsible through a cactus field by a barbed wire around their ballsack/tits until it stops being fun.
The only one I've ever used was for webmail to notify my that I received email. Somehow, my wife has turned on Amazon notifications and I can't figure out how to turn them off, so I get desktop notifications that show up with little pictures of stuff we've ordered saying, "Your order has been delivered," or whatever.
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@boomzilla said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
so I get desktop notifications that show up with little pictures of
stuffthat purple dildo we've ordered saying, "Your order has been delivered," or whatever.
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@_P_ said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@topspin To be fair, OS notification is a legitimate feature and even linux distros have it.
is how the same standard was conceived, proposed and implemented in browsers.OS notifications, definitely. Having that shit in browsers, no thanks.
I mean, I can see the appeal if you use everything web-based, but I don't. The only thing I potentially have a use for it is our mattermost server, and I've disabled notifications there, too.
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@topspin said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I would not ever let a web page push notifications, because they really have no fucking business doing that. I hate the feature and would like to drag the people responsible through a cactus field by a barbed wire around their ballsack/tits until it stops being fun.
Over there in the regex thread we had this argument that JS+electron (shudder) is actually the best tool for portability. So it follows that everything that isn't explicitly platform-specific must be accessible from the browser and all data needs to be in the cloud, for a brave new future.
I saw it. And I was "I dont even..." and just didn't even bother to get involved in the discussion.
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@PleegWat said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I would not ever let a web page push notifications, because they really have no fucking business doing that. I hate the feature and would like to drag the people responsible through a cactus field by a barbed wire around their ballsack/tits until it stops being fun.
Same. I'd really love for browsers to add a 'accept notification and blackhole it' option, because the current design is used by too many sites to keep nagging if you haven't accepted notifications.
I don't even want the fucktards to get to open a connection that direction. Hell, I even remove notifications from most apps on my phone, because fucking hell it's annoying.
I'm a rare breed that even has my phone set to do not disturb unless I'm actually expecting an important call. I like my life better when it's not constantly interrupted by stupid shit. Like how life used to be before there were mobiles and everyone started expecting that everyone else instantly respond to every single whim of theirs.
People have gotten fucking retarded in the last couple of decades and can't stand having to wait, you'd think the world is ending when you don't respond instantly. It's like everyone has become
I both need and want social downtime. And a phone going ding every few minutes interrupt and restarts downtime from 0.
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@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Hell, I even remove notifications from most apps on my phone, because fucking hell it's annoying.
Unsolicited Android notification: Hey, you haven't played [stupid timewaster game you installed three months ago, played for fourteen seconds, then completely forgot about because it's stupid] in a while! It's time to play!
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@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I'm a rare breed that even has my phone set to do not disturb unless I'm actually expecting an important call.
I generally keep it on vibrate only. One time a couple weeks ago, I was feeling sick and trying to get some sleep, so I put it on DND when it buzzed at me repeatedly over a few emails that could wait until the morning.
The next morning, I woke up to a missed call notice; a relative had had a stroke and was in the hospital.
Not sure what the moral of the story is or if there even is one--I know it's completely random and the two events were entirely unrelated to one another--but I felt pretty bad about having missed that call.
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@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I'm a rare breed that even has my phone set to do not disturb unless I'm actually expecting an important call.
I do that by leaving it downstairs when I go to bed.
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@boomzilla I sleep with my phone on the nightstand, within arms' reach. Not because I'm one of those mythical "smartphone addicts" that
media loves to hyperventilate about, but for a very pragmatic reason: my phone is also my clock. If I wake up and have no idea what time it is and whether I should be getting up or going back to sleep, I can either check my phone or ask Alexa, and the latter would wake my wife up.
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@mott555 said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Hell, I even remove notifications from most apps on my phone, because fucking hell it's annoying.
Unsolicited Android notification: Hey, you haven't played [stupid timewaster game you installed three months ago, played for fourteen seconds, then completely forgot about because it's stupid] in a while! It's time to play!
Oh, THANK YOU for letting me know. <runs off to uninstall stupid timewaster game that I forgot about>
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@boomzilla I sleep with my phone on the nightstand, within arms' reach. Not because I'm one of those mythical "smartphone addicts" that
media loves to hyperventilate about, but for a very pragmatic reason: my phone is also my clock. If I wake up and have no idea what time it is and whether I should be getting up or going back to sleep, I can either check my phone or ask Alexa, and the latter would wake my wife up.Bah. I have a real clock. Also, the people who might actually need to reach me in the middle of the night know my home phone number, a handset connected to which lives on my nightstand.
It bugs my family when we're in the living room and we hear my phone in the other room with some kind of notification. My son will often get up and bring it in, at which point I yell at him.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I'm a rare breed that even has my phone set to do not disturb unless I'm actually expecting an important call.
I generally keep it on vibrate only. One time a couple weeks ago, I was feeling sick and trying to get some sleep, so I put it on DND when it buzzed at me repeatedly over a few emails that could wait until the morning.
The next morning, I woke up to a missed call notice; a relative had had a stroke and was in the hospital.
Not sure what the moral of the story is or if there even is one--I know it's completely random and the two events were entirely unrelated to one another--but I felt pretty bad about having missed that call.
The way I see it is that my presence at said relative would not change much. And it's not like being able to answer the call when it was made would do much difference. The only one being that you may, if they are close by, have a shot at meeting a dying relative one last time before they throw in the towel.
This always available need is a new thing, two decades ago you called people on the landline in the evening, and hoped they weren't busy with something out of earshot.
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Between people who send masses of unimportant text messages at night, and stupid robocall scammers telling me the IRS needs to reach me about my car's extended warranty before the sheriff shows up to arrest me because my Windows has a virus, I put my phone completely on silent at night.
I'm a very light sleeper. I travelled with a friend about a month ago and he's evidently a supremely heavy sleeper. He not only left his notifications on overnight, but he left them at full volume. I just about fell out of bed every time it made a sound, and I was strongly considering placing his phone in the hotel room microwave on high by the next morning.
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@mott555 said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Between people who send masses of unimportant text messages at night, and stupid robocall scammers telling me the IRS needs to reach me about my car's extended warranty before the sheriff shows up to arrest me because my Windows has a virus, I put my phone completely on silent at night.
I'm a very light sleeper. I travelled with a friend about a month ago and he's evidently a supremely heavy sleeper. He not only left his notifications on overnight, but he left them at full volume. I just about fell out of bed every time it made a sound, and I was strongly considering placing his phone in the hotel room microwave on high by the next morning.
<picks up phone, holds power button down for extended period, goes back to sleep soundly>
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@dcon I brought it up the next morning, and he said something along the lines of "Well what if there's an emergency and someone needs to reach me?" To which I replied, "Obviously you'd just sleep through the phone ringing, so why even try?"
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@boomzilla said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Bah. I have a real clock.
Why would I want to spend money on something redundant like that when I already have a smartphone?
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@boomzilla said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Bah. I have a real clock.
Why would I want to spend money on something redundant like that when I already have a smartphone?
I bought my clock radio before smartphones existed...
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@mott555 said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@dcon I brought it up the next morning, and he said something along the lines of "Well what if there's an emergency and someone needs to reach me?" To which I replied, "Obviously you'd just sleep through the phone ringing, so why even try?"
When I was serving a mission in Argentina, there was one missionary who was a ridiculously heavy sleeper. He had an old-school alarm clock that was supposedly the only thing that could wake him up.
I don't remember the exact circumstances, but one day, they were doing some traveling. Their bus was leaving at way-too-early-o'clock-in-the-morning, and they decided to spend the night at the apartment of another pair of missionaries who were much closer to the bus station. The loud alarm clock got left behind, so as to not wake up the other missionaries, even though the heavy sleeper protested he wouldn't be able to wake up without it.
Well... he wasn't. Gently shaking him awake didn't work. Nor did calling his name. Or shining bright light in his face, or splashing his face with water, or rolling him out of bed. What finally woke him up was pinching his nose and holding a hand over his mouth to provoke a panic response from his body. (Which kind of freaked me out when I heard the story, because what if that hadn't worked, how would they have known when to stop?)
So... yeah. Some people actually can sleep through just about anything, while at the same time being conditioned to wake for very specific stimuli.
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@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I'm a rare breed that even has my phone set to do not disturb unless I'm actually expecting an important call. I like my life better when it's not constantly interrupted by stupid shit. Like how life used to be before there were mobiles and everyone started expecting that everyone else instantly respond to every single whim of theirs.
My phone is always set to silent / buzzer, I find it annoying when it rings. Hell, I even find it annoying when other people have their phone set to ring. (Or, worse, the retards who have keyboard sounds on)
As for DND, it’s set to automatically do that at night, but also let’s through people who call twice in a row if it’s urgent, or if it’s my mom’s number.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@boomzilla said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Bah. I have a real clock.
Why would I want to spend money on something redundant like that when I already have a smartphone?
Sorry, not seeing the redundancy.
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@Mason_Wheeler My smartphone alarm sometimes fails to work for no discernible reason. I wake up late, check the phone, and sure enough the alarm was set. It just didn't happen.
Fortunately, my bedroom window is right next to the apartment parking lot, so the sounds of car doors shutting and engines starting as everyone leaves for the morning will wake me up.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@mott555 said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@dcon I brought it up the next morning, and he said something along the lines of "Well what if there's an emergency and someone needs to reach me?" To which I replied, "Obviously you'd just sleep through the phone ringing, so why even try?"
When I was serving a mission in Argentina, there was one missionary who was a ridiculously heavy sleeper. He had an old-school alarm clock that was supposedly the only thing that could wake him up.
I don't remember the exact circumstances, but one day, they were doing some traveling. Their bus was leaving at way-too-early-o'clock-in-the-morning, and they decided to spend the night at the apartment of another pair of missionaries who were much closer to the bus station. The loud alarm clock got left behind, so as to not wake up the other missionaries, even though the heavy sleeper protested he wouldn't be able to wake up without it.
Well... he wasn't. Gently shaking him awake didn't work. Nor did calling his name. Or shining bright light in his face, or splashing his face with water, or rolling him out of bed. What finally woke him up was pinching his nose and holding a hand over his mouth to provoke a panic response from his body. (Which kind of freaked me out when I heard the story, because what if that hadn't worked, how would they have known when to stop?)
So... yeah. Some people actually can sleep through just about anything, while at the same time being conditioned to wake for very specific stimuli.
I can sleep through bring punched in the face hard enough for the person that punched me to have a tender fist for a couple of days.
On the other hand, if you sneak up on the bed and stand and look at me for a few seconds, I'll wake up.I also didn't wake up when my ex alarm clock rang, but when mine did.
I simply don't work like normal people.
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@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I can sleep through bring punched in the face hard enough for the person that punched me to have a tender fist for a couple of days.
On the other hand, if you sneak up on the bed and stand and look at me for a few seconds, I'll wake up.Military background?
My mom said basically the same thing about her father, who used to be a Marine: "you could march a herd of elephants through his room and it wouldn't wake him up, but just try to sneak up on him and he'll be awake and alert in half a second."
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
I can sleep through bring punched in the face hard enough for the person that punched me to have a tender fist for a couple of days.
On the other hand, if you sneak up on the bed and stand and look at me for a few seconds, I'll wake up.Military background?
My mom said basically the same thing about her father, who used to be a Marine: "you could march a herd of elephants through his room and it wouldn't wake him up, but just try to sneak up on him and he'll be awake and alert in half a second."
No, but I had a really wild youth with a few problems with large groups of people of low morals and less courage.
And a girlfriend that would fight in her sleep.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
If I wake up and have no idea what time it is and whether I should be getting up or going back to sleep, I can either check my phone or ask Alexa, and the latter would wake my wife up.
The simple solution there is to put an old-fashioned alarm clock next to your bed. Preferably out of arm’s reach so that if you set it, you have to get up to turn it off.
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@Gurth said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Preferably out of arm’s reach so that if you set it, you have to get up to turn it off.
That sounds like a great plan to make one go
and just ignore the alarm and keep sleeping.
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@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
drag the people responsible through a cactus field by a barbed wire around their ballsack/tits until it stops being fun.
That will never stop being fun
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@TimeBandit said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
drag the people responsible through a cactus field by a barbed wire around their ballsack/tits until it stops being fun.
That will never stop being fun
We could build an amusement park around it and let people do it for money?
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@Medinoc said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Wow, if Edge still has this idiotic "Forward all Web Notifications to Windows notification API without adding anything like \"FROM EDGE WEB BROWSER\" to their title" misfeature, this is going to be a disaster.
Edit: Looks like they at least corrected that. Well, partially:
To me, "(site name) via Microsoft Edge" should be bigger than the title, and come before it.
Edit2: And the icon should be Edge's, rather than let a website set it."It can hold 2 lines of text"
Has 3 lines of text
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@sloosecannon That second line is just the first line word wrapped.
Can I put three short lines that won't get wrapped?
VERBOTEN
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@boomzilla said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@boomzilla I sleep with my phone on the nightstand, within arms' reach. Not because I'm one of those mythical "smartphone addicts" that
media loves to hyperventilate about, but for a very pragmatic reason: my phone is also my clock. If I wake up and have no idea what time it is and whether I should be getting up or going back to sleep, I can either check my phone or ask Alexa, and the latter would wake my wife up.Bah. I have a real clock.
So do I. Unfortunately, it's not very useful when I'm in bed. For some reason, the display seems to be designed to be viewed by someone who is standing, looking down at it; it's almost unreadable from less than ~10 degrees above the horizontal, and my eyes are ~5 degrees below the horizontal when I'm in bed.
Also, the people who might actually need to reach me in the middle of the night know my home phone number, a handset connected to which lives on my nightstand.
What's a home phone? I haven't had a landline in 9 years.
It bugs my family when we're in the living room and we hear my phone in the other room with some kind of notification. My son will often get up and bring it in, at which point I yell at him.
Why? He's not on your lawn.
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@topspin said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
As for DND, it’s set to automatically do that at night, but also let’s through people who call twice in a row if it’s urgent, or if it’s my mom’s number.
This. Well, except for the part about my mom's number; she never calls me anymore.
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@_P_ said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Gurth said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Preferably out of arm’s reach so that if you set it, you have to get up to turn it off.
That sounds like a great plan to make one go
and just ignore the alarm and keep sleeping.When I was younger and had my alarm clock in easy reach, I'd just keep hitting the snooze button and going back to sleep, sometimes for an hour or more. Except when I'd miss and hit the off button, instead. Sometimes I'd do that without even waking up enough to remember having shut it off.
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@TimeBandit said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Carnage said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
drag the people responsible through a cactus field by a barbed wire around their ballsack/tits until it stops being fun.
That will never stop being fun
I'm not seeing the problem here.
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@HardwareGeek said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Well, except for the part about my mom's number; she never calls me anymore.
If she rang you now, overnight or not, you'd really want to know about it!
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@_P_ said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
@Gurth said in Newest tactics in asshole web designs:
Preferably out of arm’s reach so that if you set it, you have to get up to turn it off.
That sounds like a great plan to make one go
and just ignore the alarm and keep sleeping.So get one with an alarm annoying enough that you don’t want to sleep through it. I used to have an alarm clock that could do either radio or loud, sharp beeping noises. If I really wanted to make sure I got up, I set it to the latter.
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Yeah, that's not new... like at all.
Websites have been doing some variation of "press "download and run" to access website" while offering you malware since early 2000s.
