Drug prohibition
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@dkf said in Drug prohibition:
@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
@Carnage said in Drug prohibition:
One interesting thing regarding moonshine is that it seems to have largely vanished outside of pubs using it for filler since we joined the EU.
Some US outfits have gone legit and you can now buy their stuff in stores. I've been tempted just for the hell of it but I've never pulled the trigger.
From what I've tried of Virginian moonshine, unless you need something as a cleaning fluid, you'd be better off avoiding.
That's a big part of what's stopped me. The main difference between moonshine and normal whiskey is that they don't age it. Or they age it very little.
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@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
@Carnage said in Drug prohibition:
One interesting thing regarding moonshine is that it seems to have largely vanished outside of pubs using it for filler since we joined the EU.
Some US outfits have gone legit and you can now buy their stuff in stores. I've been tempted just for the hell of it but I've never pulled the trigger.
It's decent. Then again, I also think Spiritus is decent.
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@Gribnit said in Drug prohibition:
@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
@Carnage said in Drug prohibition:
One interesting thing regarding moonshine is that it seems to have largely vanished outside of pubs using it for filler since we joined the EU.
Some US outfits have gone legit and you can now buy their stuff in stores. I've been tempted just for the hell of it but I've never pulled the trigger.
It's decent. Then again, I also think Spiritus is decent.
Since that's not meant for consumption, I'd expect they poison it with methanol to get out of the extra tax?
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@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
Or they age it very little.
Aged in the glass while you try to bring yourself to take a second sip.
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@Gribnit said in Drug prohibition:
@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
@Carnage said in Drug prohibition:
One interesting thing regarding moonshine is that it seems to have largely vanished outside of pubs using it for filler since we joined the EU.
Some US outfits have gone legit and you can now buy their stuff in stores. I've been tempted just for the hell of it but I've never pulled the trigger.
It's decent. Then again, I also think Spiritus is decent.
I don't know what that is, but I have been known to enjoy Budweiser.
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@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
Some US outfits have gone legit and you can now buy their stuff in stores. I've been tempted just for the hell of it but I've never pulled the trigger.
It's decent. Then again, I also think Spiritus is decent.
I don't know what that is, but I have been known to enjoy Budweiser.
Yeah like that but with alcohol.
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@PleegWat said in Drug prohibition:
@Gribnit said in Drug prohibition:
@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
@Carnage said in Drug prohibition:
One interesting thing regarding moonshine is that it seems to have largely vanished outside of pubs using it for filler since we joined the EU.
Some US outfits have gone legit and you can now buy their stuff in stores. I've been tempted just for the hell of it but I've never pulled the trigger.
It's decent. Then again, I also think Spiritus is decent.
Since that's not meant for consumption, I'd expect they poison it with methanol to get out of the extra tax?
Spiritus Rektifikowani is indeed for human consumption, you filthy anti-Pole.
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I get the feeling (without trying to confirm ) that bills like this get introduced every couple of years and go nowhere. But maybe this time it will work.
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A new bill in the Senate would mark a tectonic state in the United States' drug law
I'm not sure what the "journalist" thinks that word means, but I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't know what it actually means.
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@HardwareGeek said in Drug prohibition:
A new bill in the Senate would mark a tectonic state in the United States' drug law
I'm not sure what the "journalist" thinks that word means, but I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't know what it actually means.
I don't think he's that far off. I think he's saying that it marks a "seismic shift". Poetic license and all.
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@HardwareGeek said in Drug prohibition:
A new bill in the Senate would mark a tectonic state in the United States' drug law
I'm not sure what the "journalist" thinks that word means, but I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't know what it actually means.
I think it's a typo. They meant a Teutonic state.
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@Gąska US drug laws will be enforced by German-speaking medieval Catholic knights? Interesting idea.
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@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
http s://nypost.com/2019/03/05/marijuana-legalization-has-boosted-snack-food-sales-study-reveals/
I wonder if in the long run it will boost the income of dentists.
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@jinpa I'm sure pizza delivery is already on the rise
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This is interesting but has some pretty strong caveats before an actual link should be considered established:
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@boomzilla Tried to play the video and got this:
Hey Youtube, stop applying the Windows way of fixing things to all computers
Edit: restarting Chrome fixed it
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@Gąska said in Drug prohibition:
@HardwareGeek said in Drug prohibition:
A new bill in the Senate would mark a tectonic state in the United States' drug law
I'm not sure what the "journalist" thinks that word means, but I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't know what it actually means.
I think it's a typo. They meant a Teutonic state.
At the risk of explaining the joke...
"Titanic shift"
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@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
States with legal medical marijuana have seen a drop in workplace deaths
The study's authors suggest that this could happen because young adults in those states use weed instead ofmore dangerous drugsworking.
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@boomzilla paving the way for a real cure for depression
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@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
I think not giving a shit about other people to the extent that you ignore them participating in self destructive behavior is morally wrong.
Wait, I thought you were a self-described-libertarian kind of guy.
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@anonymous234 said in Drug prohibition:
@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
I think not giving a shit about other people to the extent that you ignore them participating in self destructive behavior is morally wrong.
Wait, I thought you were a self-described-libertarian kind of guy.
Yes, to a large extent. Are libertarians not allowed to care about other people or something?
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@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
@anonymous234 said in Drug prohibition:
@boomzilla said in Drug prohibition:
I think not giving a shit about other people to the extent that you ignore them participating in self destructive behavior is morally wrong.
Wait, I thought you were a self-described-libertarian kind of guy.
Yes, to a large extent. Are libertarians not allowed to care about other people or something?
I initially read @anonymous234's response as "self-absorbed-libertarian", so I think the answer to your question is "no".
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@boomzilla I'm pretty sure that not banning things "for your own good" is one of the main things about libertarianism. Plus drug Iegalization is kind of the poster issue of libertarians... people make fun of them by saying they're just "conservatives who smoke pot".
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@anonymous234 said in Drug prohibition:
@boomzilla I'm pretty sure that not banning things "for your own good" is one of the main things about libertarianism. Plus drug Iegalization is kind of the poster issue of libertarians... people make fun of them by saying they're just "conservatives who smoke pot".
Yeah, there are a lot of people who just want to smoke dope and call themselves libertarians. I'm skeptical of prohibition and government power in general. I don't think I've ever called myself a hard core libertarian or anything like that and drug legalization is waaaaaaay down on the list of my libertarian concerns.
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@anonymous234 I think you can be a libertarian and still oppose drug legalization. Firstly there's the addiction, which means that a "fuck authority" libertarian type could try it once just to see and end up hooked. Even after that, though, drugs theoretically only affect the user, but in practice a seriously addicted user has already run out of money and will get more and more desperate to the point that they are willing to turn to more violent means of getting their fix. A libertarian would support marijuana legalization, but not necessarily other drugs.
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@pie_flavor said in Drug prohibition:
a "fuck authority" libertarian type could try it once just to see and end up hooked
There's very little chance of anybody getting instantly addicted to any drug from one dose. Maybe heroin but even then it's far from certain
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@Jaloopa Yes, but the one dose has no immediate negative effects. By the time you can see for yourself 'okay, this is bad for me, I need to stop', you no longer can.
Libertarianism has as a fundamental assumption the idea that we are in complete control over our own decisions. In several cases, the worst of which is addictive drugs, this is not the case.
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@pie_flavor said in Drug prohibition:
@anonymous234 I think you can be a libertarian and still oppose drug legalization.
No, you would not be an actual libertarian. The defining view of libertarianism is that it's not the government's place to protect people from themselves, along with "Your right to swing your arm ends at my nose".
Many people, of course, do not fit entirely within the views of a named doctrine; so there are doubtless people who are libertarian except on the issue of drug legalization.
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@pie_flavor said in Drug prohibition:
@Jaloopa Yes, but the one dose has no immediate negative effects. By the time you can see for yourself 'okay, this is bad for me, I need to stop', you no longer can.
Libertarianism has as a fundamental assumption the idea that we are in complete control over our own decisions. In several cases, the worst of which is addictive drugs, this is not the case.The libertarian position is that this was a risk you took upon yourself. You would not have the right to steal or victimize others as a result of your addiction, however. But the high prices of illegal drugs are due primarily to their illegality, so it is likely that if drugs were legalized (and not taxed excessively), that additional crimes to pay for the drugs would be less common.
It sounds like you're not libertarian; that's fine, but that doesn't change the libertarian position.
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@jinpa Am I a capitalist if I support some regulation? Maybe a libertarian is one who believes in not banning anything at all, even nukes.
You're confusing 'libertarian' with 'extreme libertarian'. In an ideal world drugs would be legal, but in this world they cause serious community dysfunction. Same way in an ideal world there would be zero business regulations but in this world you're pretty much boned without things like antitrust laws. 'The libertarian position' is the idealistic variant; that's why I didn't use those words at all. Instead I pointed out how drugs among other things violate an assumption in the idealistic view, which is why it may not apply in the real world.
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@pie_flavor said in Drug prohibition:
but in this world they cause serious community dysfunction
You're in the wrong topic. We're discussing our Earth here.
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@Jaloopa said in Drug prohibition:
@pie_flavor said in Drug prohibition:
a "fuck authority" libertarian type could try it once just to see and end up hooked
There's very little chance of anybody getting instantly addicted to any drug from one dose. Maybe heroin but even then it's far from certain
I once had a cow-orker who had a significant history of drug use in the 60s-70s. He said he'd tried just about everything, but he wouldn't touch cocaine, because it was so good you could get hooked the first time you tried it.
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@HardwareGeek I have proof by contradiction that that's not universal. I took cocaine once, 7 years ago, and have never felt any particular desire to try it again
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@pie_flavor said in Drug prohibition:
@jinpa Am I a capitalist if I support some regulation? Maybe a libertarian is one who believes in not banning anything at all, even nukes.
You're confusing 'libertarian' with 'extreme libertarian'.No. But you're confusing "libertarian", the categorization of a person, with "libertarian", the adjective or the principle.
"Oogah boogah, there are people I would call libertarians whose views are not entirely libertarian, therefore the definition of the philosophy of libertarianism must change, oogah boogah."
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@jinpa I haven't said any of those things. Read it again.
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@pie_flavor Though, in the fairness of things, we'd also have to talk about alcohol and tobacco.
I mean, it's not as if those two are massively more harmless than the other drugs out there.
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@Rhywden Tobacco yes, alcohol no. Physical addictions are what I'm after here; again, psychological addictions can be created for literally anything that provides dopamine.
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@pie_flavor both can cause physical addiction
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@Jaloopa TIL. Still, alcohol physical dependence is way the hell muted compared to things like tobacco or hard drugs.
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@pie_flavor said in Drug prohibition:
alcohol physical dependence is way the hell muted compared to things like tobacco
You really don't have a good idea about what alcohol abuse does.
Alcohol withdrawal can be fatal in cases of severe abuse.
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@Carnage Yes but I'm referring to rate of acquisition. The hook starts late and moves slowly. You can drink a beer every night and not even begin to develop an addiction, and the same cannot be said of any of the others.
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@pie_flavor said in Drug prohibition:
@Carnage Yes but I'm referring to rate of acquisition. The hook starts late and moves slowly. You can drink a beer every night and not even begin to develop an addiction, and the same cannot be said of any of the others.
Yeah, addiction depends a fair bit on genetics. Some people can do most drugs recreationally recurringly and never develop an addiction, while some people will be addicted from the first taste. It wont be a debilitating addiction for a few years with alcohol though, whereas some drugs turn your life to shit in a few months.
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@pie_flavor said in Drug prohibition:
@Carnage Yes but I'm referring to rate of acquisition. The hook starts late and moves slowly. You can drink a beer every night and not even begin to develop an addiction, and the same cannot be said of any of the others.
LSD does not create any physical addiction. You do not seem to know as much about drugs you think you do.