Orc-tal; trolling from the nerdy jokes thread
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@PleegWat said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@ben_lubar Who still uses octal these days, except when setting file permissions?
C:\Users\Adam> Get-NTFSAccess . Path: C:\Users\Adam (Inheritance disabled) Account Access Rights Applies to Type IsInherited InheritedFrom ------- ------------- ---------- ---- ----------- ------------- NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM FullControl ThisFolderSubfoldersAn... Allow False BUILTIN\Administrators FullControl ThisFolderSubfoldersAn... Allow False DESKTOP-WHRGRBL\Adam FullControl ThisFolderSubfoldersAn... Allow False
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@pie_flavor Yes? I don't see where that contradicts what I wrote.
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@PleegWat said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor Yes? I don't see where that contradicts what I wrote.
Don't mind him. Windows has rotted his brain.
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@PleegWat said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor Yes? I don't see where that contradicts what I wrote.
Only moronic file systems use octal for file permissions.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
Only moronic file systems use octal for file permissions.
You prefer septal? OK…
It's just a convenient way of writing the bit flags. There are other ways to write them that work fine too, but either don't illustrate what permissions are granted so easily — the hexadecimal form is an example of this — or use an encoding scheme that is either ridiculous or expensive (depending on the context in which you're in).
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@dkf Or, you use the Windows way, which doesn't involve magic numbers at all.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@dkf Or, you use the Windows way, which doesn't involve magic numbers at all.
Which is why users are represented with magic numbers like
S-1-5-21-649746425-4167416237-3926453357-1108, natch.
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@Tsaukpaetra Only when they can't be represented any other way. Most of the time, they're just something like NT AUTHORITY\TrustedInstaller or DESKTOP-WHRGRBL\Adam. They're stored as magic numbers but only a retarded system would make you interact with them as magic numbers.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra Only when they can't be represented any other way. Most of the time, they're just something like NT AUTHORITY\TrustedInstaller or DESKTOP-WHRGRBL\Adam. They're stored as magic numbers but only a retarded system would make you interact with them as magic numbers.
In the same way you're not forced to interact with an octal-based permissions filesystem with magic numbers.
Much number. So magic.
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@Tsaukpaetra Now show me what it looks like from the command line.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra Now show me what it looks like from the command line.
When in compact form:
I had to search high and low how to get the numbers-version:
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@Tsaukpaetra and what, exactly, does "rwx" mean?
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra and what, exactly, does "rwx" mean?
What exactly does CI IO GR GE RX mean?
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
Now show me what it looks like from the command line.
Displaying (first column):
bash$ ls -l README -rw-r--r-- 1 dkf staff 6373 4 Sep 08:34 READMEChanging (see
u+w):bash$ chmod u+w READMEWhere is the octal there? (Yes, I'm using a format which is still pretty compact, but so what? If you want something long-winded, use a different tool. I like not having to type a lot.)
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra and what, exactly, does "rwx" mean?
What exactly does CI IO GR GE RX mean?
what is that from?
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra and what, exactly, does "rwx" mean?
What exactly does CI IO GR GE RX mean?
what is that from?
The Windows Command prompt, duh.
Because unlike Linux, you have to use a special program to determine permissions on a file, it's not part of the directory listing.
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@Tsaukpaetra CMD's output is about as meaningful to me as VB6's. PowerShell is the intended way of interfacing with Windows from the command line.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra CMD's output is about as meaningful to me as VB6's. PowerShell is the intended way of interfacing with Windows from the command line.
[Citation Needed]
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra CMD's output is about as meaningful to me as VB6's. PowerShell is the intended way of interfacing with Windows from the command line.
[Citation Needed]
Was the fact that every Win10-specific action is only available in PowerShell and that the Win+X menu changed from CMD to PowerShell and that the shift right click menu has Open PowerShell Window Here instead of Open Command Prompt here in it not clue enough?
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra CMD's output is about as meaningful to me as VB6's. PowerShell is the intended way of interfacing with Windows from the command line.
[Citation Needed]
Was the fact that every Win10-specific action is only available in PowerShell and that the Win+X menu changed from CMD to PowerShell and that the shift right click menu has Open PowerShell Window Here instead of Open Command Prompt here in it not clue enough?
No.
Also:
The command I used has been available since Vista (when it superceded
cacls.exefrom Windows XP (which also still works, natch):
So, again, [Citation needed]
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
So, again
Additionally, if they really intended PowerShell the be the de-facto shell for Windows, why does cmd.exe not simply link to it?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra CMD's output is about as meaningful to me as VB6's. PowerShell is the intended way of interfacing with Windows from the command line.
[Citation Needed]
Was the fact that every Win10-specific action is only available in PowerShell and that the Win+X menu changed from CMD to PowerShell and that the shift right click menu has Open PowerShell Window Here instead of Open Command Prompt here in it not clue enough?
No.
Also:
Yes, I know that's a setting that you changed away from the default.
The command I used has been available since Vista (when it superceded
cacls.exefrom Windows XP (which also still works, natch):And the intended way to do this is Get-Acl and Set-Acl.
So, again, [Citation needed]
Here, here's another one, by the PowerShell Chief Architect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us4HTxtjfa8&t=1230
Apparently it's been deprecated since 2008.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
So, again
Additionally, if they really intended PowerShell the be the de-facto shell for Windows, why does cmd.exe not simply link to it?
... because there's a hell of a lot you'd try to do with cmd.exe that would fail in PS? Neither is a superset of the other and Windows maintains backwards compatibility for as long as humanly possible.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
.. because there's a hell of a lot you'd try to do with cmd.exe that would fail in PS?
Like what? Run programs? List directories? Set environment variables?
Anyways, this is the nerdy jokes thread. Pun up or shut up.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
Apparently it's been deprecated since 2008.
I don't know. Vijay Kumar, Community Star, is still asking people to open their CMD for
sfc /scannow
Didn't he get the memo?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
.. because there's a hell of a lot you'd try to do with cmd.exe that would fail in PS?
Like what? Run programs? List directories? Set environment variables?
You cannot be serious. I'm talking about specific commands that you'd expect batch files to be able to run.
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@Applied-Mediocrity That's an exe file; it can be run from PS too.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
.. because there's a hell of a lot you'd try to do with cmd.exe that would fail in PS?
Like what? Run programs? List directories? Set environment variables?
You cannot be serious. I'm talking about specific commands that you'd expect batch files to be able to run.
There's only like, what, some thirty built-in commands? That Microsoft has the source code for?
I can't imagine it would be difficult to map
attribortypeto a PowerShell command with full compatibility.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
.. because there's a hell of a lot you'd try to do with cmd.exe that would fail in PS?
Like what? Run programs? List directories? Set environment variables?
You cannot be serious. I'm talking about specific commands that you'd expect batch files to be able to run.
There's only like, what, some thirty built-in commands? That Microsoft has the source code for?
I can't imagine it would be difficult to map
attribortypeto a PowerShell command with full compatibility.Why, though? cmd.exe works perfectly, there's no need to straight-up remove it. Like Control Panel. There's no links to it, but it still functions if for some reason you want to use it. Or the
regcommand when you can just useHKLM:\orHKCU:\in PS.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
That's an exe file; it can be run from PS too.
If someone's taking Vijay's advice seriously, they have very vague idea what exe file even is, and better follow the instructions to the letter... including C:\ *cough*
But the point is - a good number of official and semi-official sources are showing how to use CMD exclusively for various tasks, and very little have PS (and then often for WMI queries). No big corporation has their house in order, but clearly CMD is not going away anytime soon. PS is a marked improvement, but for many tasks it will remain that other thing until CMD is forced to walk the plank (like 16-bit programs on x64 - nope, and that's a final).
Why, though? cmd.exe works perfectly,
Indeed.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
for many tasks it will remain that other thing until CMD is forced to walk the plank
They're slowly phasing it out. You can't do any form of Win10 automation, from new settings to UWP apps, with CMD.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra CMD's output is about as meaningful to me as VB6's. PowerShell is the intended way of interfacing with Windows from the command line.
PS C:\Users\«redacted»> dir Directory: C:\Users\«redacted» Mode LastWriteTime Length Name ---- ------------- ------ ---- d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 3D Objects d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Contacts d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Desktop d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Documents d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Downloads d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Favorites d----- 6-4-2018 16:52 Intel d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Links d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Music d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Pictures d----- 6-4-2018 16:26 RoamingSo what do
dandrmean again?rcan't meanread, since I can enter and list folders which don't have it.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@dkf Or, you use the Windows way, which doesn't involve magic numbers at all.
Which is why users are represented with magic numbers like
S-1-5-21-649746425-4167416237-3926453357-1108, natch.... hello, my name's
S-1-1-0, and it's been 5 months since my last post...
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
only a retarded system would make you interact with them as magic numbers.
Even the Linux CLI doesn't make you interact with them as magic numbers.
chmod ugo+rwX ...
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
.. because there's a hell of a lot you'd try to do with cmd.exe that would fail in PS?
Like what? Run programs? List directories? Set environment variables?
You cannot be serious. I'm talking about specific commands that you'd expect batch files to be able to run.
There's only like, what, some thirty built-in commands? That Microsoft has the source code for?
I can't imagine it would be difficult to map
attribortypeto a PowerShell command with full compatibility.Why, though? cmd.exe works perfectly, there's no need to straight-up remove it. Like Control Panel. There's no links to it, but it still functions if for some reason you want to use it. Or the
regcommand when you can just useHKLM:\orHKCU:\in PS.Did you hear? Microsoft is doing its best to eliminate the Control Panel, as you've pointed out elsewhere. After all, you literally can't use Windows without .Net, according to you. Remember that?
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@PJH And what the hell does that mean?
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@everyone said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@dkf Or, you use the Windows way, which doesn't involve magic numbers at all.
Which is why users are represented with magic numbers like
S-1-5-21-649746425-4167416237-3926453357-1108, natch.... hello, my name's
S-1-1-0, and it's been 5 months since my last post...Good one! Finally a joke in the nerdy jokes thread! Have a kiss! 💋
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@PleegWat said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra CMD's output is about as meaningful to me as VB6's. PowerShell is the intended way of interfacing with Windows from the command line.
PS C:\Users\«redacted»> dir Directory: C:\Users\«redacted» Mode LastWriteTime Length Name ---- ------------- ------ ---- d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 3D Objects d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Contacts d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Desktop d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Documents d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Downloads d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Favorites d----- 6-4-2018 16:52 Intel d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Links d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Music d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Pictures d----- 6-4-2018 16:26 RoamingSo what do
dandrmean again?rcan't meanread, since I can enter and list folders which don't have it.That's highly abbreviated because it's trying to show everything about directories at once. ACLs themselves are represented in a much more high-level way when specifically editing them, rather than strange letters.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@PleegWat said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra CMD's output is about as meaningful to me as VB6's. PowerShell is the intended way of interfacing with Windows from the command line.
PS C:\Users\«redacted»> dir Directory: C:\Users\«redacted» Mode LastWriteTime Length Name ---- ------------- ------ ---- d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 3D Objects d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Contacts d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Desktop d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Documents d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Downloads d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Favorites d----- 6-4-2018 16:52 Intel d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Links d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Music d-r--- 17-9-2018 17:29 Pictures d----- 6-4-2018 16:26 RoamingSo what do
dandrmean again?rcan't meanread, since I can enter and list folders which don't have it.That's highly abbreviated because it's trying to show everything about directories at once. ACLs themselves are represented in a much more high-level way when specifically editing them, rather than strange letters.
False.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@Tsaukpaetra said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
.. because there's a hell of a lot you'd try to do with cmd.exe that would fail in PS?
Like what? Run programs? List directories? Set environment variables?
You cannot be serious. I'm talking about specific commands that you'd expect batch files to be able to run.
There's only like, what, some thirty built-in commands? That Microsoft has the source code for?
I can't imagine it would be difficult to map
attribortypeto a PowerShell command with full compatibility.Why, though? cmd.exe works perfectly, there's no need to straight-up remove it. Like Control Panel. There's no links to it, but it still functions if for some reason you want to use it. Or the
regcommand when you can just useHKLM:\orHKCU:\in PS.Did you hear? Microsoft is doing its best to eliminate the Control Panel, as you've pointed out elsewhere. After all, you literally can't use Windows without .Net, according to you. Remember that?
They're porting its functionality to Settings, but you can still use it. And yes, a large amount of Windows 10 does not function without .NET in it. MS engineers would likely be put off their lunch at the thought of what you did to that poor computer.
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@Tsaukpaetra What?
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@PJH And what the hell does that mean?
I'm sure you've been round this before in this thread, but
user,group,ownerother, addread, write execute.
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@pie_flavor
Seeing how they bungle things, think up something "exciting" and then discard it a few years down, CMD may yet outlive UWP, so I wouldn't bet on that particular horse.
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@PJH This feels to me like the same argument we're frequently going over with blakey. Big GUI screens with descriptive strings are useful to people doing something for the first time, but slow you down if you need to make the change often. Concise displays (like
-rws--x---) give a lot of information very compactly, which speeds up the expert but is completely inaccessible to people not used to the platform and dyslexics.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
That's highly abbreviated because it's trying to show everything about directories at once. ACLs themselves are represented in a much more high-level way when specifically editing them, rather than strange letters.
But the format for describing them is just as mysterious as that you get with the Linux command line. An example from earlier up the thread had
(OI)(CI)(IO)Fas description, and that's definitely not obvious at first glance. It might be clear to you because of what you have learned, but that's definitely not clearer than-rw-r--r--; neither is actually intuitive, and both are interfaces intended for people with some expertise (i.e., so they can actually read the abbreviated forms). Security descriptors are pretty opaque to most users.Also, what does
(OI)(CI)(IO)Factually mean? I can see from the example that theFis sometimes replaced with(special access:)with a longer description beneath (nor do I understand the significance of the terms in the special access expansion; I guess I could look those up though, as they look like they'd be googleable), but that doesn't tell me what those standard forms do, andIOtotally doesn't have a bazillion other meanings.
I'm curious…
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor
Seeing how they bungle things, think up something "exciting" and then discard it a few years down, CMD may yet outlive UWP, so I wouldn't bet on that particular horse.what? You caught the 'since 2008' part, right?
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@dkf said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
That's highly abbreviated because it's trying to show everything about directories at once. ACLs themselves are represented in a much more high-level way when specifically editing them, rather than strange letters.
But the format for describing them is just as mysterious as that you get with the Linux command line. An example from earlier up the thread had
(OI)(CI)(IO)Fas description, and that's definitely not obvious at first glance. It might be clear to you because of what you have learned, but that's definitely not clearer than-rw-r--r--; neither is actually intuitive, and both are interfaces intended for people with some expertise (i.e., so they can actually read the abbreviated forms). Security descriptors are pretty opaque to most users.Also, what does
(OI)(CI)(IO)Factually mean? I can see from the example that theFis sometimes replaced with(special access:)with a longer description beneath (nor do I understand the significance of the terms in the special access expansion; I guess I could look those up though, as they look like they'd be googleable), but that doesn't tell me what those standard forms do, andIOtotally doesn't have a bazillion other meanings. I'm curious…Deprecated since 2008.
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@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@dkf said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
@pie_flavor said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
That's highly abbreviated because it's trying to show everything about directories at once. ACLs themselves are represented in a much more high-level way when specifically editing them, rather than strange letters.
But the format for describing them is just as mysterious as that you get with the Linux command line. An example from earlier up the thread had
(OI)(CI)(IO)Fas description, and that's definitely not obvious at first glance. It might be clear to you because of what you have learned, but that's definitely not clearer than-rw-r--r--; neither is actually intuitive, and both are interfaces intended for people with some expertise (i.e., so they can actually read the abbreviated forms). Security descriptors are pretty opaque to most users.Also, what does
(OI)(CI)(IO)Factually mean? I can see from the example that theFis sometimes replaced with(special access:)with a longer description beneath (nor do I understand the significance of the terms in the special access expansion; I guess I could look those up though, as they look like they'd be googleable), but that doesn't tell me what those standard forms do, andIOtotally doesn't have a bazillion other meanings. I'm curious…Deprecated since 2008.
Obviously not.
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@PJH said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
I'm sure you've been round this before in this thread, but
user, owner, groupaddread, write execute.user (owner), group, othersFTFY
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@dkf said in The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!):
Also, what does
(OI)(CI)(IO)Factually mean?It means: object inherit, container inherit, inherit only, full access.
In other words, this thing, the things inside this thing, but only not this thing, full permission is granted.
If I'm reading that correctly, anyways.
