Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN
-
@gwowen if a thought is repeated and quoted to inspire a feeling, and shared because it inspires that feeling, doesn't that automatically make it a meme?
-
@Arantor I guess so. It's certainly spread like the Genghis Khan's genes.
-
@Arantor said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@boomzilla being nuanced is awfully like doing work.
And yelling is so cathartic.
-
@Arantor The real answer is "High quality code review, comprehensive unit tests and widescale fuzzing make sufficiently many bugs shallow that you'll probably be OK."
Other than those, differences in development methodology are basically just fashions and preferences.
-
@gwowen you mean tings that can be carried out irrespective of open source, thus kind of proving Blakeyrat's point that open source doesn't magically mean better quality software?
-
@boomzilla said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@Arantor said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@boomzilla being nuanced is awfully like doing work.
And yelling is so cathartic.
YES YES IT FUCKING IS.
-
@Arantor said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@gwowen if a thought is repeated and quoted to inspire a feeling, and shared because it inspires that feeling, doesn't that automatically make it a meme?
Therefore, my conclusion is "Maybe."
-
@RaceProUK fits definition 1 just fine.
-
@Arantor said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
YES YES IT FUCKING IS.
https://what.thedailywtf.com/post/1131517
There are other documented screams further down the topic.
-
@Arantor said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@RaceProUK fits definition 1 just fine.
TIL money is a meme.
-
@Zecc the "many eyes makes bugs shallow" line is a meme. And this fits definition 1.
-
-
@Zecc Surely money is just an abstraction above simple barter?
-
Update to the OP:
https://twitter.com/Nick_Craver/status/862444660333170688
So MS balked and will include .NET 4.6+ support in ASP.NET Core v2.
Here's the turnaround point in the github thread.
No comment from Microsoft on the whole drama so far (that I've seen).
-
@Arantor I certainly don't believe Open Source methodology offers much in the way of benefit for code quality. I don't thing it offers much detriment either. Opensource/closed source methodologies don't find bugs, testing and review processes find bugs. You can develop under-tested code via any methodology.
-
@gwowen that's the point Blakey was making, and it's absolutely true.
-
@Arantor I wasn't really intending to disagree with Blakey (except maybe on whether it qualifies as a "meme", a point which I happily concede because I don't care). While sniping at Blakey is fun, sniping at ESR is much more fun.
And besides, Blakey's "show me where the penguin touched you" hatred of Open Source is too deranged to reason with.
-
: ASP.NET Core 2.0 won't support .NET Framework 4.6.
: ?! We need that!
: OK, OK, it'll support .NET Framework 4.6 too.
: MS are so pathetic!
:
-
@cartman82 The thing that REALLY pissed me off while reading through that Github issue and I emailed Hanselman about similar things when .NET 4.5 came out and broke everything ... even though "it was a drop in replacement". Is he says it will l be just fine.
No Scott most of us have to produce something and we are normally in understaffed companies and I don't need Microsoft, Google or Co. arbitrarily making it more difficult to use better versions of the libs / frameworks I already fucking use.
I actually like Scott Hanselman but sometimes his attitude of "well we are doing it, but I am going to say nicely why it isn't right" really pisses me off.
-
@Zecc said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
TIL money is a meme.
Yes, yes it is.
-
@Arantor said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@gwowen that's the point Blakey was making, and it's absolutely true.
No, blakey is not at all neutral on that like @gwowen is. He is firmly in the "detriment" camp.
-
@boomzilla Wait, does he want open source to fall under Title II or not? I'm confused.
-
@NedFodder Depends: does he want it to render 2px smaller?
-
@boomzilla said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
He is firmly in the "detriment" camp.
case in point:
@blakeyrat said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
This is what happens when you adopt open source, everything becomes shit.
-
@NedFodder said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@boomzilla Wait, does he want open source to fall under Title II or not? I'm confused.
He just wants it to fall.
-
@boomzilla said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
He just wants it to fall.
I'm starting to think that, at some point in his life, Richard Stallman stole his lunch money.
-
@TimeBandit said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Richard Stallman stole his lunch money
FOOD IS FREE AND OPEN SO THIS IS MY SANDWICH!!!
-
@Jaloopa Well, who doesn't enjoy an Open sandwich?
-
-
-
@boomzilla said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
No, blakey is not at all neutral on that like @gwowen is. He is firmly in the "detriment" camp.
The "opensource methodology" being detrimental. I think most people will agree with him once you accept what his definition of "opensource methodology".
Your disagreement is all on semantics and pedantry.
-
@wharrgarbl here, in this place? SURELY THOU JEST.
-
@wharrgarbl I agree with him on some of those things but I think he's wrong to call them "opensource." For instance, ignoring bug reports. But I'm not racist against software methodologies like he is.
-
@boomzilla Nobody managed to point a better name, and those things he listed are typical of opensource.
I agree it isn't an ideal name, but it's the better name we have for it.
-
@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Nobody managed to point a better name
apart from CADT
-
@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@boomzilla Nobody managed to point a better name, and those things he listed are typical of opensource.
I agree it isn't an ideal name, but it's the better name we have for it.
Are you trying to offend me?
Seriously, though, you're being too nuanced here and not congruent with blakey's professed views.
-
@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
I think most people will agree with him once you accept what his definition of "opensource methodology".
Right. Similarly, just like everyone will agree that Obama wiretapped Trump, once we all accept Trump's definition of "Obama" and "wiretapped".
-
@gwowen I would explain why it's different, but your analogy is ridiculous. I can see why blakey gets angry with you people.
-
@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@gwowen I would explain why it's different, but your analogy is ridiculous. I can see why blakey gets angry with you people.
For a guy who was spouting some vague nonsense about something "being insulting" you have a lot of nerve.
-
@boomzilla It's annoying when people just try to "win the argument" instead of trying to understand your point.
-
@lucas1 I agree with you. I'm just saying that if they are hell-bent on taking this "let's release everything as soon as possible so people can give feedback on our unfinished crap" model, also known as the "free QA department" model, they would probably do a lot better for themselves if they used a different branding for those releases. That way, you would develop a userbase for your "labs" branding which would only include people who were actually interested in fiddling around with your works in progress and nobody would be surprised or angry when it doesn't work.
-
@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
I would explain why it's different, but your analogy is ridiculous. I can see why blakey gets angry with you people.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone. "It means just what I choose it to mean - neither more or less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."Incidentally - blakey gets angry with people for the same reason most other people get angry on the internet - because he's a self-righteous twit with anger management issues.
-
@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@boomzilla It's annoying when people just try to "win the argument" instead of trying to understand your point.
Yes. You haven't understood blakey's point yet, for instance.
-
@gwowen but there is no better word for "bad development methodologies tipically used in opensource software"
-
@boomzilla said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Yes. You haven't understood blakey's point yet, for instance.
At least I gave it an honest try
-
@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
"bad development methodologies typically used in opensource software"
Oh wait. I know this one -- "Give an example of 'begging the question'"
-
@RaceProUK said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
: ASP.NET Core 2.0 won't support .NET Framework 4.6.
: ?! We need that!
: OK, OK, it'll support .NET Framework 4.6 too.
: MS are so pathetic!
:They are.
Shit like this makes it seem MS has no fucking idea what they are doing.
.NET is aimed largely at stable slow-moving enterprises. They are not gonna like this kind of chaos and uncertainty.
-
@cartman82 Stable slow-moving enterprises aren't using .NET Core or Standard anyway: they're using Framework.
-
@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
It's annoying when people just try to "win the argument" instead of trying to understand your point.
YMBNH
-
@RaceProUK said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@cartman82 Stable slow-moving enterprises aren't using .NET Core or Standard anyway: they're using Framework.
And at this pace, they never will.