Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :doing_it_wrong:
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@accalia said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@HardwareGeek said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
That error has been lurking in the bowels of our build system since time immemorial.
aaah. yesssssss. build systems.... no one person cna fully comprehend the horror that goes into a fully functional build system,
at least not while remaining sane.
Who said anything about sane?
Filed under: WHO SENT YOU?
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@lucas1 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@Rhywden I would die if I drank that.
Actually, you won't, and neither would I. That fate is reserved for sober people
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@anotherusername said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
lucas1 tends to be a little bit cunty, rhywden tends to be a little bit dickish
Sounds like a good match!
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@wft said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
How about more evil fun with Unicode normalized/denormalized file names?
Also, here's more stuff to behold and weep:
These are:
Ᾰ.txt
Ă.txt
Ă.txt
Ᾰ.txt
Ӑ.txt
Ӑ.txt
Note that I could only make 4 lowercase variants this way. Ok, there is probably a way to create more variants of both, this was just the low-hanging fruit.
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@remi said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@Steve_The_Cynic said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
I remember enumerating the different ways of spelling terminal "-eh" in French:
Phonetically, there are (at least) two "eh" in French, although many people (and/or regional accents) don't differentiate them that well. They are quite obvious in the middle of many words (and when written with é or è) but the end of words -ais/-ait and -ez, for example, are not always pronounced the same, which is more subtle.
Oh, yeah, I'm quite sure there is (or was historically) a difference in pronunciation. At one time, ffs, the "s" on the "-és" and "-ées" endings was pronounced(1), as it was on "-ais" (which would make the first person singular forms of the future and conditional sound different...).
Of course, my native-English ear can't hear that difference, but that's a whole different question.
(1) Just like the "s" in "Étienne", except there it has disappeared in modern spelling as well as pronunciation. In the 12th Century, King Stephen (of England)'s name in French was "Estienne", whereas today it is "Étienne".
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
Just like the "s" in "Étienne", except there it has disappeared in modern spelling as well as pronunciation. In the 12th Century, King Stephen (of England)'s name in French was "Estienne", whereas today it is "Étienne".
TIL.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
Oh, yeah, I'm quite sure there is (or was historically) a difference in pronunciation.
My point was that what you call the same sound is actually several ones (although the distinction is quite subtle now and, as I said, most people don't make it anymore, or don't know that they make it...). So saying that there are several ways to write the "same" sound is a bit like a Japanese saying that the sound "ell" can be written "l" or "r" (yeah, I know, that's also a simplification...).
Anyway, I'm just being -ic, it's all details now...
Of course, my native-English ear can't hear that difference, but that's a whole different question.
I can imagine. I'm not a native-English speaker and when I stumbled one day on the radio on a comical show with different regional English accents, I was absolutely, totally, utterly lost. Even the few sentences that I could actually understand (OK, part of the comical effect was also using local slang, so probably no-one in the audience understood everything), I was entirely unable to say in which regard they were pronounced differently...
(1) Just like the "s" in "Étienne", except there it has disappeared in modern spelling as well as pronunciation.
I'm not sure in the case of "Étienne" (and it might be because it's the first letter of the word), but usually this evolution can be seen when there is a circumflex on the "e" (or other letter, btw). E.g. "tête" (head) was "teste", "maître" (master) was "maistre" etc. Although again, in modern spelling, the circumflex is disappearing, and even in pronunciation, it's less and less marked.
All that is overlaid with the regional variations and accents. Which in France is a somewhat loaded issue since there is a central office charged of defining what the "proper" french is, plus there was historically a strong central pressure to supress regional variations (as in, regional non-french dialects mostly, but also non-standard french pronunciations). So there are some people who react strongly on these issues. But it's a vanishingly small minority, though.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@remi said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@Steve_The_Cynic said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
I remember enumerating the different ways of spelling terminal "-eh" in French:
Phonetically, there are (at least) two "eh" in French, although many people (and/or regional accents) don't differentiate them that well. They are quite obvious in the middle of many words (and when written with é or è) but the end of words -ais/-ait and -ez, for example, are not always pronounced the same, which is more subtle.
Oh, yeah, I'm quite sure there is (or was historically) a difference in pronunciation. At one time, ffs, the "s" on the "-és" and "-ées" endings was pronounced(1), as it was on "-ais" (which would make the first person singular forms of the future and conditional sound different...).
In standard pronunciation (Parisian), there is a difference between é ([e], also written "ez" terminally) and è ([ɛ], also written "ê", "ai", "ei" or "e" - the last only before several consonants). An unaccented e before a single consonant (or in a single-syllable word like le and many personal pronouns) is pronounced yet differently (if at all). For instance, Étienne is [etjɛn].
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@Khudzlin In other words, when you go into the details, history and local variations, all languages are complicated :-)
inb4: lojban?
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@lucas1 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@Yamikuronue I will put that down to you being more of an SJW than anything else.
@lucas1 go home, you are drunk. (I like how that still works even the next day.)
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@anotherusername said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@GodEmperor fuck off. Don't be an ass. And the downvote was from me, not Yami.
This isn't a thread. All of you need to chill the fuck out.
Cry more.
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@aliceif said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@anotherusername said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
lucas1 tends to be a little bit cunty, rhywden tends to be a little bit dickish
Sounds like a good match!
How cis-normative of you.
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@lucas1 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
I just don't speak it like you were taught.
My Fair Lady "Why Can't the English Learn to Speak" – 06:03
— Eivind Solfjell@Arantor said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@lucas1 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
I just don't speak it like you were taught.
At this point I feel like I should admit I speak largely with Received Pronunciation. I should also point out I'm worse about bad grammar than my girlfriend @royal_poet who is German - and an immigrant, so I guess we both upset your delicate sensibilities even more.
Are you sure it's Received Pronunciation? Official British radio and TV news broadcasters use that.
But RP's not correct, either.
Example:
RP pronunciation of 'area': æriːər
æ as in pat
r as in row
iː as in meet
ər as in spur or ferment or fur
It seems that all words that end in an 'a' are pronounced with that final 'ur' sound. There's nothing in the spelling or the history of the word that would indicate that an 'R' should be pronounced there.Conversely, words like 'year' are pronounced without the final 'R': jɪə
j as in yet
ɪ as in pit
ə as in agoIt's almost as bad as Eliza Doolittle in the movie from the above-mentioned video.
"In 'Artford, 'Ereford, and 'Ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly hever 'appen."
"The rine in Spine sties minely on the pline."TL;DR: Why can't the English learn to speak?
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@djls45 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
Why can't the English learn to shut the fuck up?
There. Fixed it.
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@error said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@aliceif said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@anotherusername said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
lucas1 tends to be a little bit cunty, rhywden tends to be a little bit dickish
Sounds like a good match!
How cis-normative of you.
Wouldn't that be hetero-normative? Whatever.
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@CodEmperor said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@djls45 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
Why can't the English learn to shut up?
There. Fixed it.
FTFQM
Please don't put words in my mouth.And I personally like the sound of the accents from the British Isles. I just don't think they can say they speak "proper" English when they murder the pronunciation like that.
Language is hard for a reason: "Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth."
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@CodEmperor said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@djls45 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
Why can't the English learn to shut the fuck up?
There. Fixed it.
So you want your bezzie mate to STFU too? I'm fine with this.
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@aliceif said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@error said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@aliceif said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@anotherusername said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
lucas1 tends to be a little bit cunty, rhywden tends to be a little bit dickish
Sounds like a good match!
How cis-normative of you.
Wouldn't that be hetero-normative? Whatever.
Both, I think.
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@djls45 I'm that guy who adds an r sound in bath and glass.
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@Arantor said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
an arrrh sound
I have always knew you where a pirate
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@Luhmann Aye.
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@djls45 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
"The rine in Spine sties minely on the pline."
The ditch in the Vertebral Column stores a particular business analytics company on a particular brand of fishing line.
??? ??? ???
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@Arantor said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
an r sound in bath and glass
What even? Where then? How?
I've heard people who say "Yotta warsh the cloze in the hot wooder."
But "barth"? "Glarss"?
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@djls45 yup, you guessed it.
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@djls45 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
There's nothing in the spelling or the history of the word that would indicate that an 'R' should be pronounced there.
My guess: Oxford dialect used to put an R in there if the next word started with a vowel. If it's good enough for Oxford, it's good enough for Thames TV.
TL;DR: Why can't the English learn to speak?
As the irish say: "English is a language created by thieves". First they need to get a language of their own.
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@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
As the irish say: "English is a language created by thieves". First they need to get a language of their own.
There's more truth in that than most people would like to think. Modern English contains at least a few words from pretty much every other language in the world. (OK, yeah, mostly Old Low German and Old Norman French, but a scattering of other random stuff.)
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@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
As the irish say: "English is a language created by thieves". First they need to get a language of their own.
James Nicholl said in rec.arts.sf-lovers (in 1990)
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary.
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@ben_lubar said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@Khudzlin said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
I agree that UTF-16 is the worst Unicode encoding
What about UTF-18?
Ze goggles! Zey do nothing!
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@Rhywden Because you it is some old school latin shit and I was close enough in normal English conversations. It doesn't matter that your minor fucking nitpicking is right, everyone else does the other thing.
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@lucas1 You drunk again?
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@Rhywden Nope.
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@lucas1 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@Rhywden Nope.
Ah, so it's already permanent then. A pity.
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@Rhywden Again nope. Try again fucker.
How are the Rapes going in your country at the moment?
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@Rhywden said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@lucas1 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@Rhywden Sorry "Naw" isn't a word in the dictionary. Try again.
Oh, good, you finally found one! Might I also suggest using this one as well?
Well played, one-box.
EDIT: grrrrr server cooties shouldn't affect post writing
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@Rhywden said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
I told you guys before, our humor is removed at birth and then sent to work in the salt mines.
You mean Gorleben? Man ... storing 80 million doses of German humor together with that nucular™ waste, that sounds like a plan to create the Zombie Apocalypse!
Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermaaaaarghhl
NO CARRIER
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@lucas1 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@Rhywden Again nope. Try again fucker.
How are the Rapes going in your country at the moment?
The way I remember Germany they have loads of it. Half the countryside is yellow in June.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
There's more truth in that than most people would like to think. Modern English contains at least a few words from pretty much every other language in the world. (OK, yeah, mostly Old Low German and Old Norman French, but a scattering of other random stuff.)
And that's just why @lucas1 got his words mixed up in the first place: to use "were" that looks like a plural form for a singular irrealis doesn't make much sense at first sight, only historically in its relationship to German "war" and "wäre" it does.
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@LaoC said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
The way I remember Germany they have loads of it. Half the countryside is yellow in June.
Rape Culture is a big thing in much of Europe.
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@dkf said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
a big thing in much of Europe
It's getting a bit passé however
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@LaoC said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@lucas1 said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@Rhywden Again nope. Try again fucker.
How are the Rapes going in your country at the moment?
The way I remember Germany they have loads of it. Half the countryside is yellow in June.
The smell can get annoying at times.
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@Yamikuronue said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
There's no point.
I dunno. He's got a pointy head.
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So it seems Apple has decided that case insensitivity in the filesystem is wrong and to do something about it.
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@greybeard said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
Why on earth do you consider languages with non-Latin characters to be special snowflake? There are more than a handful of Mandarin speakers, for example.
ASCII motherfucker, do you speak it?
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@wharrgarbl said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
@greybeard said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
Why on earth do you consider languages with non-Latin characters to be special snowflake? There are more than a handful of Mandarin speakers, for example.
ASCII motherfucker, do you speak it?
NUL
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Since the thread has been revived...
@adynathos said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
Maybe instead remove the uppercase characters from English? They don't convey enough information to justify the effort.
The graphical effect can be kept with formatting, like bold/italics etc.Reminds me of doing word processing on our old Z80-based micro in the mid to late 1980s. It didn't have lowercase characters; the word processing program rendered uppercase characters using inverse video (swapping background and foreground colours).
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@scarlet_manuka sounds like the Sinclair ZX81.
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@greybeard said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
So it seems Apple has decided that case insensitivity in the filesystem is wrong and to do something about it.
Well Windows did something about it long ago with
FILE_FLAG_POSIX_SEMANTICS
... But without this flag, still uses theOrdinalIgnoreCase
comparison, which considers SS different from ß and AE different from Æ (unlike theInvariantCultureIgnoreCase
comparison).Note: I have no idea how
InvariantCultureIgnoreCase
handles AE vs ä, I haven't tested this.
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@greybeard said in Case (in)?sensitive filesystems are :
Why on earth do you consider languages with non-Latin characters to be special snowflake? There are more than a handful of Mandarin speakers, for example.
And we have already established your ignorance of Turkic languages.
To me, special snowflake languages wouldn't be those with non-latin characters, but those that use latin characters differently from how I do. :p
Such as the aforementioned
I
vsi
problem.