Linux on the Desktop? A long way off...
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@HardwareGeek said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Tsaukpaetra Oh, boy; replies to posts from 15+ years ago!
You'll never guess what happens next!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@HardwareGeek said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Tsaukpaetra Oh, boy; replies to posts from 15+ years ago!
You'll never guess what happens next!
I sure can. I go to bed, because it's after midnight, and I have to
workuse Linux on the (virtual) desktop in the morning.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Thief said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Microsoft have also recently released / said they'll release the specs for all the binary MS Office file formats, so openoffice.org should support them properly soon enough.
Would that it went anywhere...
It sort of did. They even standardized the newer formats as ISO standards (while the Star/Open/LibreOffice ones are only ECMA standards) … in a typical Microsoft way with slight differences from what Microsoft Office actually implements.
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@Bulb said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Tsaukpaetra said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Thief said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Microsoft have also recently released / said they'll release the specs for all the binary MS Office file formats, so openoffice.org should support them properly soon enough.
Would that it went anywhere...
It sort of did. They even standardized the newer formats as ISO standards (while the Star/Open/LibreOffice ones are only ECMA standards)
LibreOffice's OpenDocuement is ISO standardized, too. ISO/IEC IS 26300.
… in a typical Microsoft way with slight differences from what Microsoft Office actually implements.
600 pages of standard.
Nah, just kidding, it's over 7100 pages, 600+ pages are just the backwards compatibility cruft including shit like "do the line wrapping just like Word 6 did" (
yes, the one from 1993).
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@LaoC said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Nah, just kidding, it's over 7100 pages,
...which Microsoft Word doesn't fully comply with, giving us
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
You'll never guess what happens next!
GODDAMN FBMAC!
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@Watson said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@LaoC said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Nah, just kidding, it's over 7100 pages,
...which Microsoft Word doesn't fully comply with, giving us
Wait... Microsoft doesn't follow their own standard?
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@Atazhaia at the time ISO 29500 was created, there were no reference implementations that followed the standard.
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@Arantor said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Atazhaia at the time ISO 29500 was created, there were no reference implementations that followed the standard.
Btw, MS Office itself also reads the file in more forgiving manner. Say, the CalcChain file in Excel (.xlsx file) need not be present if you don't need explicit order in your formulas, and the SharedString file need not exists if all strings are included in the cells as inline strings.
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@Atazhaia said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Watson said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@LaoC said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Nah, just kidding, it's over 7100 pages,
...which Microsoft Word doesn't fully comply with, giving us
Wait... Microsoft doesn't follow their own standard?
Well, Microsoft's first submission to ISO had a lot of Windows-specific stuff (for supporting all their different versions of Word), and ISO naturally said that such stuff wasn't appropriate for a vendor-neutral industrial standard. Microsoft went away and split their backward compatibility out those 600 pages of "Legacy" @LaoC referred to, and resubmitted the "Strict" part as the standard, with the optional "Legacy" extension. ISO accepted this on the condition that all new OOXML documents adhere to the "Strict" part, with the extension only used as required for backward compatibility. Microsoft said "Okay, sure" with its fingers crossed behind its back.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie7K0lLrw4A
Not a huge sample but still interesting. I did like that he was shocked by most people having a good experience when interacting with the Linux community.
Today we have way higher expectations than a few years ago.
2015-2020: "Look! My favorite game now works on Linux. That's amazing!"
2020-Now: "Ohh, this game with anti-cheat and two very specific apps don't work on Linux at all. Linux is not so good."Fool on me for going into the comment section but I did like this one. The Linux people never quite understand that those programs are the reason people keep using those operating systems and they're the bigger part of the ecosystem. You're not going to be able to find a substitute for Call of Duty.
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@DogsB said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Not a huge sample but still interesting. I did like that he was shocked by most people having a good experience when interacting with the Linux community.
Today we have way higher expectations than a few years ago.
2015-2020: "Look! My favorite game now works on Linux. That's amazing!"
2020-Now: "Ohh, this game with anti-cheat and two very specific apps don't work on Linux at all. Linux is not so good."Expectations were pretty low for a long time. Back when we had the LAN pit one of my buddies would bring over a bootable Linux CD every once in a while to show me how the hardware support had advanced. "Look, it's a year later and it can play sounds now! On this particular Sound Blaster, anyway."
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@Parody I still have the twitches from fighting to compile OSS vs ALSA drivers for my machine many years ago.
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@Zecc said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
I spot a copy-paste-forget-to-update-size-of-bars error.
He broke some of them down based on expert vs newbie so that might be what you're seeing but he is French.
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@Parody said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@DogsB said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Not a huge sample but still interesting. I did like that he was shocked by most people having a good experience when interacting with the Linux community.
Today we have way higher expectations than a few years ago.
2015-2020: "Look! My favorite game now works on Linux. That's amazing!"
2020-Now: "Ohh, this game with anti-cheat and two very specific apps don't work on Linux at all. Linux is not so good."Expectations were pretty low for a long time. Back when we had the LAN pit one of my buddies would bring over a bootable Linux CD every once in a while to show me how the hardware support had advanced. "Look, it's a year later and it can play sounds now! On this particular Sound Blaster, anyway."
On my first linux install (some ancient RedHat version in 95 or 96?) I got the sound working by editing the sound driver and fixing a bug. But ever since then, I've had working sound on Linux on all hardware I've tried. Some of them took a bit of fucking about, but not to the point of fixing drivers at least.
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@Carnage said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Parody said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@DogsB said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Not a huge sample but still interesting. I did like that he was shocked by most people having a good experience when interacting with the Linux community.
Today we have way higher expectations than a few years ago.
2015-2020: "Look! My favorite game now works on Linux. That's amazing!"
2020-Now: "Ohh, this game with anti-cheat and two very specific apps don't work on Linux at all. Linux is not so good."Expectations were pretty low for a long time. Back when we had the LAN pit one of my buddies would bring over a bootable Linux CD every once in a while to show me how the hardware support had advanced. "Look, it's a year later and it can play sounds now! On this particular Sound Blaster, anyway."
On my first linux install (some ancient RedHat version in 95 or 96?) I got the sound working by editing the sound driver and fixing a bug. But ever since then, I've had working sound on Linux on all hardware I've tried. Some of them took a bit of fucking about, but not to the point of fixing drivers at least.
Well, my work laptops still can't handle the lid being closed while running without requiring a hard boot (ubuntu 18 and 22).
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@dcon said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Carnage said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Parody said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@DogsB said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Not a huge sample but still interesting. I did like that he was shocked by most people having a good experience when interacting with the Linux community.
Today we have way higher expectations than a few years ago.
2015-2020: "Look! My favorite game now works on Linux. That's amazing!"
2020-Now: "Ohh, this game with anti-cheat and two very specific apps don't work on Linux at all. Linux is not so good."Expectations were pretty low for a long time. Back when we had the LAN pit one of my buddies would bring over a bootable Linux CD every once in a while to show me how the hardware support had advanced. "Look, it's a year later and it can play sounds now! On this particular Sound Blaster, anyway."
On my first linux install (some ancient RedHat version in 95 or 96?) I got the sound working by editing the sound driver and fixing a bug. But ever since then, I've had working sound on Linux on all hardware I've tried. Some of them took a bit of fucking about, but not to the point of fixing drivers at least.
Well, my work laptops still can't handle the lid being closed while running without requiring a hard boot (ubuntu 18 and 22).
The thing that's annoying with my work laptop is that it draws power when sleeping so it'll drain the battery in a day or two. Other than that everything works. I used to have a work laptop with a touch screen, and that was... Not entirely implemented. It worked as a huge touchpad, and if you had more screens plugged in, it went all sorts of wonky, because it tried mapping the display surface to the touch surface sooo... Not very good. I also turned off the touchscreen after a short while because even when it was working correctly with the single screen it was annoying as all hells.
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@Carnage said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
if you had more screens plugged in, it went all sorts of wonky,
I remember that... Had to perform a bunch of arcane commands:
# Use xrandr to get display screen name (last arg to xinput) xinput map-to-output `xinput | grep "USBest Technology SiS HID Touch Controller" | cut -f 2 | cut -d = -f 2` DVI-I-1-1Touch actually seems to be working correctly on my u22 machine (laptop is main screen, 4K monitor is on the left). I had a USB touch screen I used on the u18 machine (which did not have a touch screen) which is where that command came from.
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@Carnage said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@Parody said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
@DogsB said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
Not a huge sample but still interesting. I did like that he was shocked by most people having a good experience when interacting with the Linux community.
Today we have way higher expectations than a few years ago.
2015-2020: "Look! My favorite game now works on Linux. That's amazing!"
2020-Now: "Ohh, this game with anti-cheat and two very specific apps don't work on Linux at all. Linux is not so good."Expectations were pretty low for a long time. Back when we had the LAN pit one of my buddies would bring over a bootable Linux CD every once in a while to show me how the hardware support had advanced. "Look, it's a year later and it can play sounds now! On this particular Sound Blaster, anyway."
On my first linux install (some ancient RedHat version in 95 or 96?) I got the sound working by editing the sound driver and fixing a bug. But ever since then, I've had working sound on Linux on all hardware I've tried. Some of them took a bit of fucking about, but not to the point of fixing drivers at least.
His point was that it worked out of the box, no editing files or fixing drivers required. On the same hardware, Windows of the era either worked out of the box or worked after installing the drivers and software that came with, no other messing around needed.
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@Carnage said in Linux on the Desktop? A long way off... :
On my first linux install (some ancient RedHat version in 95 or 96?) I got the sound working by editing the sound driver and fixing a bug. But ever since then, I've had working sound on Linux on all hardware I've tried. Some of them took a bit of fucking about, but not to the point of fixing drivers at least.
As long as you have a sound card that follows the AC97 standard, then yes.
However there's also some sound card that does not, and not supported by any driver built into kernel source.
