Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
https://i.imgur.com/FDARyUH.png
Funny, I don't recall ever changing this setting.What if you have no such setting, it gets set up by default to something other than "Never" during the upgrade, then after the first boot it automatically applies the rule?
I did a clean install and mine was set to "Never".
But there's a bigger problem. Just the existence of a setting called "Delete everything in the Download folder after xx days" is completely insane.
-
@El_Heffe I don't know. Most of the things I put in the download directory I really should re-download the latest version if I need them again after more than a month or so. The rest has retention policies attached which only specify a maximum duration.
-
@PleegWat said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
I don't know. Most of the things I put in the download directory I really should re-download the latest version if I need them again after more than a month or so.
I think the problem is mainly with changing the policy without informing the user and having the user explicitly opting in. Now, it's not entirely clear what's going on here. Some people say that theirs defaults to "never", which IMO is fine. But, I too would be pissed at this changing behind my back, despite not having anything non-replaceable in the Downloads directory.
-
@cvi said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@PleegWat said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
I don't know. Most of the things I put in the download directory I really should re-download the latest version if I need them again after more than a month or so.
I think the problem is mainly with changing the policy without informing the user and having the user explicitly opting in. Now, it's not entirely clear what's going on here. Some people say that theirs defaults to "never", which IMO is fine. But, I too would be pissed at this changing behind my back, despite not having anything non-replaceable in the Downloads directory.
Yeah, changing the value of a setting like that (even if it's unchanged from default) would be undesirable. Even on new installations, it would be desirable to communicate to the user that there's a retention by default on that directory.
However, @El_Heffe suggested it is insane to have retention on that directory at all.
-
@PleegWat said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
However, @El_Heffe suggested it is insane to have retention on that directory at all.
Either I'm misreading stuff, but isn't he suggesting that automatically deleting stuff from it (and even just having the option to do so) is insane?
-
@cvi Yes. And I put it on the same level as automatically clearing up items which have been in the recycle bin for more than a month. It's pretty reasonable, IMO, to separate uncategorized incoming downloads from the downloads archive.
-
@PleegWat I think I'm missing something. I'm going to retry understanding what you're saying when I've caffeinated my brain a bit more. (It seems that some time after lunch it kinda gave up the whole idea of doing brainy things, and I'm not too happy about that.)
-
@PleegWat said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
However, @El_Heffe suggested it is insane to have retention on that directory at all.
No, I said it is insane to NOT have retention. What I put in the Download folder, and how long it stays there, is none of anyone's business.
Yes, there are people out there who do weird crazy things, like using the Recycle Bin or their e-mail's trash folder for long term storage of files. That's a bad idea, and they shouldn't be doing that, but, automatically deleting ANY files is almost always an even worse idea.
-
The cost of Window Cleaners DLC will be gradually included in the base price for Home users.
-
@El_Heffe: not to mention, there's a pretty common user pattern that breaks horribly if this feature is enabled:
- the user downloads a document from a website
- they open the document
- they edit it (typical example: filling a Word or PDF form)
- they save it in-place
- later, they reopen it from the "Recent documents" history list
If the feature is enabled, and there's more than a month between step 4 and step 5, poof! Their work is lost.
Sure, power users know that editing-in-place is a bad idea in this case, but plenty don't.
EDIT: another case: downloading a portable application. Since there's no installer, the user may run it directly from the download folder. If the app hasn't been used during the last month, poof! It's gone.
-
@El_Heffe said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
But there's a bigger problem. Just the existence of a setting called "Delete everything in the Download folder after xx days" is completely insane.
The setting makes some sense. Windows ever turning it on by itself is massively user hostile, though.
-
@mott555 said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Clippy got renamed to Cortana.
-
@clippy said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@mott555 said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Clippy got renamed to Cortana.
Ooh, time for angry fight?
One sec, gotta get my camera from the other scene....
-
After a bunch of customers did the QA, Microsoft fixed the bugs
-
@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
After a bunch of customers did the QA, Microsoft fixed the bugs
"the bug that caused file deletion was related to users who had enabled Known Folder Redirection to redirect folders like desktop, documents, pictures, and screenshots from the default location. Microsoft introduced code in its latest update to delete the empty and duplicate known folders, but it appears they weren’t always empty."
Does that explanation even make sense?
"Microsoft has developed fixes to address a variety of problems related to these folder moves, and these fixes are now being tested with Windows Insiders. "
More QA by customers instead of Microsoft.
-
@El_Heffe said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Does that explanation even make sense?
It does, sadly.
https://i.imgur.com/xhT5iYL.png
Every damn update.
-
Now they have a new, great passive-aggressive reply: "stop complaining about duplicate folders, or we'll delete them again in the next update. You wouldn't want that, would you?"
-
@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
It does, sadly.
<snip>
Every damn update.Wait... whoa... does that mean you...? That your Windows 10 is not actually *gasp* perfect?
O_O
-
@Applied-Mediocrity said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
It does, sadly.
<snip>
Every damn update.Wait... whoa... does that mean you...? That your Windows 10 is not actually *gasp* perfect?
O_O
Mine certainly isn't. I wouldn't want to give it an aggregate score that would rate it as more or less imperfect than Windows 7 SP1(1), but in several important ways, 1803/April is less imperfect than the FCU version that came before it.
(1) Because the relative imperfections are not uniformly distributed. But on one significant aspect, both are better than what I had previously - both are 64-bit builds, and before that, I had 32-bit Win2K. Being able to run 64-bit stuff when it adds something(2) is a plus.
(2) No, the mere act of compiling something for 64-bit does not automatically, as a matter of course, improve it, except insofar as it forces certain kinds of bugs to receive a thorough stomping.
-
@El_Heffe said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
"the bug that caused file deletion was related to users who had enabled Known Folder Redirection to redirect folders like desktop, documents, pictures, and screenshots from the default location. Microsoft introduced code in its latest update to delete the empty and duplicate known folders, but it appears they weren’t always empty."
Which is interesting, because I got 1809 installed on my desktop which uses a different location for the known folders (D: rather than C:) and I lost no files. Either I got lucky, or I used the one way to make the change that wont trigger the file deletion bug.
The most fun thing is to watch which applications use a non-standard way to access those folders trip up on the fact that they are in a different place. I think Adobe managed some impressive fuckup that I should screenshot and post on the forum.
-
@izzion said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@El_Heffe
That would make total sense for the seemingly sporadic/random nature of the reports, too. After all, everyone knows the two most logical places to store super critical documents and pictures are the "Recycle Bin" and "Downloads" folders.You're forgetting the tmp and temp folders
-
@Steve_The_Cynic said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
(2) No, the mere act of compiling something for 64-bit does not automatically, as a matter of course, improve it, except insofar as it forces certain kinds of bugs to receive a thorough stomping.
It's clearly better. It lasts much longer before it crashes with out-of-memory errors.
-
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@El_Heffe said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
"the bug that caused file deletion was related to users who had enabled Known Folder Redirection to redirect folders like desktop, documents, pictures, and screenshots from the default location. Microsoft introduced code in its latest update to delete the empty and duplicate known folders, but it appears they weren’t always empty."
Which is interesting, because I got 1809 installed on my desktop which uses a different location for the known folders (D: rather than C:) and I lost no files. Either I got lucky, or I used the one way to make the change that wont trigger the file deletion bug.
I've been doing that for a few years now. Documents, Pictures and Downloads are on E:, Music is on F:, Videos on G:, and I have never noticed any "duplicate folders". Maybe that only happens if you move the Known Folders to a different location on the same drive -- but why would you do that? Doesn't really make sense to me.
Back in the early days of Windows 7 I discovered a strange quirk with this. If you move the location of those folders to a different drive, and then for some reason that drive becomes unavailable, things break terribly. The Start Menu and Control Panel don't work at all and trying to run Windows Explorer results in a weird error message about trying to connect to a server. I don't know if that happens with Windows 10.
-
" Redirecting one or more Known Folders does not, however, remove the original folder. If there are still files in the original folder, redirecting doesn't move those files to the new location. Using Known Folder Redirection can thus result in your files being split between two locations; the original folder, and the new redirected folder.
Technically this is true, BUT, when you change the location of a Known Folder it asks you if you want to move all your files to the new location, and won't let you proceed until you answer yes or no. If you're changing the location, why wouldn't you move everything to the new location? PEBKAC strikes again.
But then there's this:
"The October 2018 Update tried to tidy up this situation. No need to have a Documents directory in your profile if you're using a redirected location, after all. The problem is, it neither checked to see if those directories were empty first, nor copied any files to the new redirected location. It just wiped out the old directory, along with anything stored within it.
-
@Applied-Mediocrity said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@pie_flavor said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
It does, sadly.
<snip>
Every damn update.Wait... whoa... does that mean you...? That your Windows 10 is not actually *gasp* perfect?
O_O
Wow. Even mine doesn't do that!
-
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@El_Heffe said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
"the bug that caused file deletion was related to users who had enabled Known Folder Redirection to redirect folders like desktop, documents, pictures, and screenshots from the default location. Microsoft introduced code in its latest update to delete the empty and duplicate known folders, but it appears they weren’t always empty."
Which is interesting, because I got 1809 installed on my desktop which uses a different location for the known folders (D: rather than C:) and I lost no files. Either I got lucky, or I used the one way to make the change that wont trigger the file deletion bug.
I don't use KFR and I lost files in my Downloads. I love how they said it affected only a very small (minuscule) percentage. I'd say only a small percentage reported it. The rest of us grumbled in places like this. ()
-
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
I think Adobe managed some impressive fuckup
That's hardly a surprise, is it?
-
@HardwareGeek said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
I think Adobe managed some impressive fuckup
That's hardly a surprise, is it?
The most impressive thing about Adobe fuckups is their frequency.
-
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
I think Adobe managed some impressive fuckup that I should screenshot and post on the forum.
Please do.
-
@marczellm As I posted it in the WTF Bites thread rather than this one I can just link it in here too.
I don't know how Adobe fucked this up, but they did.
-
@El_Heffe said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
The most impressive thing about Adobe fuckups is their frequency.
You could use them as a calibration standard for the SI second definition?
-
@dkf: probably not. They can't even get them to happen on schedule.
-
Hearing about this issue with the October update gave me a bit of a quandary.
: Hmm, it's been a while since I did a backup, I'd better do one. System image backup please.
: Error, haha
: Strange, let's try that again.
: Error, haha. Do you want help with this error?
: Eh... sure, why not.
: Maybe this thread with somebody complaining about the same problem, but without any resolution, will help?
: ... no, not really.
: How about these other two threads on unrelated issues? Do they solve your problem?
: Why did I ever think this might help?
: Hey, lots of people have this issue starting with version 1703.
: Apparently it's fixed in the October update.
-
-
@TimeBandit said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Microsoft begins re-releasing Windows 10 October update after fixing file deletion bug
They'll re-release the update any second now.
[30 days later]
...any second now.
-
@anonymous234 Oh, it's still not released? I'm still living on the bleeding edge then!
-
@Atazhaia Don't worry, you'll be downgraded to Home version soon
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/9v6ibm/windows_10_pro_suddenly_not_activated/
-
@TimeBandit: I read somewhere (maybe even here) that the Pro version was not considered a "real" professional version any longer anyways, and the only one that's still business-oriented is the Enterprise one.
-
@Zerosquare said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
the Pro version was not considered a "real" professional version
I don't consider any Windows10 version a professional one
-
@Zerosquare said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
the only one that's still business-oriented is the Enterprise one.
Four words: Disney's Magical Fucking Kingdom
-
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Zerosquare said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Four words: Disney's Magical Fucking KingdomI know Disney has been diversifying, but I didn't know they ventured into "adult entertainment".
-
@Zerosquare said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Zerosquare said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Four words: Disney's Magical Fucking KingdomI know Disney has been diversifying, but I didn't think know they ventured into "adult entertainment".
I thought that was the whole (original) reason they got copyright extended so much, so they could have a monopoly on mouse porn?
-
@Zerosquare said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Zerosquare said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Four words: Disney's Magical Fucking KingdomI know Disney has been diversifying, but I didn't think know they ventured into "adult entertainment".
While I wouldn't describe the majority of Touchstone's films as "adult" (in the sense in which it is used in "adult entertainment"), it's worth noting that Disney created Touchstone so that they could release more films like Tron(0), The Black Hole(1), and above all Dragonslayer(2) without them having to be labelled "Disney".
(0) Slavery, torture, megalomania, brutality, and so on.
(1) Slavery, torture, megalomania, and one major protagonist-side character who is eviscerated by a malevolent robot just inches outside the boundaries of the screen, with no doubt whatsoever as to what is happening.
(2) A film that's full of "grown-up" themes, but no actual on-film sex (although it's very, very strongly hinted at in one part of the film). Political corruption of the worst sort, murder, a king selling out his people to keep the peace, etc., and a very, very dark overall theme. Oh, and Vermithrax Pejorative, the definitive Western film dragon. All others, before and since, must be measured for "dragonishness" against her(3), and they are all found wanting.
(3) Unusually, the draconic antagonist is female.
EDIT: and it's probably wise not to remind people of such Disney classics as High Altitude Precision Bombing.
-
@Atazhaia Either you got it during the first release or you're in the Windows Insiders program.
-
@anonymous234 Shockingly I got it during the first release and even had it install without issues despite having my user folders in a non-standard location. After the same PC refused to install 1803 without a full OS reinstall due to some unidentified conflict or something...
-
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
and even had it install without issues despite having my user folders in a non-standard location
AIUI, for the bug to manifest you need to have moved your user folders and have your files in the old folder (the path you're supposed to have moved them from) and have an outdated OneDrive client.
Besides, I'm sure there's been literally millions (maybe billions) of people who have lost files because of Windows bugs before. It's never been exactly the most stable software in the world. And even if software bugs didn't exist and user errors didn't exist, hard drives still fail unpredictably. Files that don't have backups will be lost sooner or later.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Zerosquare said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Atazhaia said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
@Zerosquare said in Windoze 10 Fall 2018 Flopdate, now with even more nothingness:
Four words: Disney's Magical Fucking KingdomI know Disney has been diversifying, but I didn't think know they ventured into "adult entertainment".
I thought that was the whole (original) reason they got copyright extended so much, so they could have a monopoly on mouse porn?
Something about a willy going like a steamboat?
-
So, just to confirm, it's not my machine being weird and lazy, 1809 is still not back in rotation?
-
@Onyx Correct, 1809 has not yet been rereleased to the general public.
-
@Parody And yet I'm running it.