Looks like CPound is looking to get into the scamming business....
Posts made by TheRubyWarlock
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RE: Is it too late to make money off of old people who are confused by the internet?
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RE: Flamebait article
The RealWTF is that TunnelRat was too stupid to notice that this thread is a little more than 5 months old before he posted on it.
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RE: Interview Cruelty: CPound Would be Proud
The real WTF is that you clearly have no balls.
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RE: Using clipboard for application communication
This is another gem, about functions:
I guess I'll be the lone nonconformist on this issue....remember....everyone once thought the world was flat at one time as well...and everyone of them were WRONG.
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RE: Using clipboard for application communication
Brice Richard is known on JoS for thinking that he's a great programmer because, despite being self-taught, he has made a good living writing small-scale Access applications. He doesn't believe in breaking his code up into functions - from his past posting he seems to write everything as part of the event handler for a form/button/widget, and vehemently claimed that breaking code up into functions was stupid and he didn't see the point of it.
His posts are quite hilarious to read, especially when he starts going off about how his way of doing things is right for him, no matter how many people disagree.
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RE: Instant Message WTF
The REALWTF is that we still allow you to post here ;-)
Hurry up and finish the One Week Job story on your blog, gawddammit!
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RE: We Sell Knickknacks on the Internet
Wait I thought the last company that you'd never work for was the one that sold "knicknacks on the internet"? The one with the security and the tattooed beast who confronted you and demanded to see your hall pass.. I mean security clearance to be waiting outside the restroom.
Or is that same job (you do mention security IDs)? Besides, if most of your day is doing boring, worthless busywork then just coast through it, and study up on your own time.
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RE: Primary Key WTF
I fail to see what the problem is - looks like ol' "TubeRodent" is claiming anything he doesn't agree with as a WTF. There's nothing wrong with using "ID" as a primary key. In fact, the greatest web framework ever, Ruby on Rails (that's said jokingly, by the way, although I do like RoR) expects you to do it or you have to do some additional configuration (convention over configuration, after all).
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RE: Ever suffered a "Bait and Switch"?
A total rewrite would never have happened (I asked if there were plans to rewrite it): They had to keep the older versions for certain clients who didn't want to pay for the "new features" added to the later versions, so they had about four different versions of the same Classic ASP site, some with extra features and some without, and all of them needed to be kept maintained (and, as I found out my third day, sometimes you had to add something to one version, and not add it to the other version). New functionality was, they said, done in ASP.NET but that was A) added on top of the Classic ASP, not replacing, and B) only the latest and greatest version of the program.
The main reason I quit in a week is because I don't know Classic ASP very well at all and I had no interest in wallowing my career away working with legacy things with no chance of it being reworked.
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RE: Ever suffered a "Bait and Switch"?
@LoztInSpace said:
How would you run the show?
For starters, use some real development methodologies to avoid huge amounts of files with repeated code, that aren't structured properly but mix business logic, data access logic and HTML. Second, I wouldn't have 50 developers if I have a small company - ever hear of the old saying, Too many cooks spoils the broth? Then have an actual upgrade path that didn't involve hacking away at a huge, rotting codebase that's never been refactored by anyone who seemed to have even a passing familiarity with common software concepts.
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RE: Ever suffered a "Bait and Switch"?
@TunnelRat said:
Man, how fuckin' arrogant of you to expect to do work with current technology! And how in only one week were you able to judge that the whole shop was full of hacks?
But this happens all the time in I.T. -- the bait and switch.
Yah, I figured you'd sympathize. how was I able to judge? Just by the way they acted and talked.. it sounded like none of them knew shit about software. As if the code wasn't evidence enough
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Ever suffered a "Bait and Switch"?
About a month ago I received a job offer from a web software company. I had interviewed with them, and the position as it was explained to me was ASP.NET and VB.NET. They seemed like a great company, and although what they offered was a bit less than what I had made previously, I accepted their offer.
Surprise, surprise I turned up the first day to discover the following:
1) In this small company of about 100 people, there were over 60 "developers" (and I use the term loosely, as most of them seemed like hacks) as well as a horde of DBAs, Systems Analysts and QA Analysts. There were rigid processes to put anything into production, that usually resulted in it going through many levels of "testing", with even minor nitpicks requiring the whole thing to be thrown out. Despite the owner claiming to have software experience (in VB3 or something, I think, which should say it all), the company gave the impression of being someone's lame attempt to get rich despite having no idea how to run a software company (and the sad part is, they do really good business. What is it with shitty companies always doing well instead of going bankrupt like they should??)
2) 95% of the application was written in Classic ASP and had to be maintained as such. I'm talking HUGE classic asp application, with 13,000+ asp files (I actually posted a snippet from it here a while back). Blatant mixing of logic and presentation, some required functions buried inside of unrelated include files. Javascript inside of ASP files instead of JS files, copy-n-pasted logic everywhere. It would make some of the WTFs here look like shining examples of proper code. All in all, horrible, stinking, rotting code that could never be modified or properly rewritten since it would take too long. I have pretty much zero experience with Classic ASP - I played around with it years ago in school, and despised it. Plus I have no interest in fucking around with legacy shit that will hurt my longterm career.
Needless to say, I was pissed that I got conned into the job, when the interviewers explained to me that it was mostly ASP.NET (I specifically asked about it). I figure they told people that because, if they mentioned what it really was, they'd never hire anybody! I quit the end of my first week in disgust. Anyone else ever have shit like that happen, and if so what did you do about it?
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RE: If you loved "third class programmer", you'll love "Life of an IT Grunt"
I enjoy reading the guy's blog, but he's still an asshole. What gets me is the pervasive "Everybody here but me is a complete fucking retard" attitude. Taken in context, his beef with "Charlie" might be understandable, and the guy might be over his head. But IMO a good supervisor (as he claims to be) shouldn't try to go behind someone's back and get them fired. He should have worked with Charlie to help him improve, not say "Yeah, this stupid gook doesn't know shit, he doesn't belong here, so I'm going to try and get rid of him, that way everyone at this shithole company will know of my greatness." (My apologies for using such a racist term).
He comes across like an arrogant prick - I would have thought being in the Marines would take arrogance away from you (I wouldn't know, I'm nowhere near good enough to be in any of the armed forces), not increase it tenfold.
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RE: How to Get Paid
You're still an arrogant shitbag who thinks he's better than everyone else. Not to mention a racist and bigot. Maybe you wouldn't have so much trouble if you treated others as human beings and not immediately think they're shit and nowhere in your league.
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RE: A couple of Visual Studio WTFs - Warning:Large Images
I'd just like to add that I made my comment as a joke at the myriad of folks who point out in the frontpage articles that "The Real WTF is VB" or such nonsense. I firmly believe there's nothing bad with VB, just that the majority of people who use it really have no business being programmers in any language. I wasn't actually saying that VB sucks (hell, I know it myself and taught myself to program using it, although I now prefer C#).
Although I think everyone knew that already.
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RE: A couple of Visual Studio WTFs - Warning:Large Images
Sorry to do this, but someone had to say it:
The Real WTF is that you appear to be writing code in Visual Basic
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RE: In response to "Life of an I.T. Grunt"
Wow. Just wow. I started to read that blog (I actually bookmarked it, to read/laugh about later), and I just have to say that the guy who wrote that is the one who doesn't belong in the field, not the people he bashes. And I thought I was an arrogant prick, but this guy makes me look tame in comparison! It boils down to him thinking "Why is everyone except me so fucking stupid?". I think he summed it up best in the post where he mentions his wife saying during an argument that maybe he's the problem. His wife is spot on.
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RE: No Loitering! Or else, there will be...trouble!
Let's see.. so the translation of this would be:
- CPound (somehow) gets an interview with a company. Everyone is very friendly/welcoming to him, while CPound is aloof and probably turns his nose up at the fact that nobody as this company seems to wear suits and ties. Perhaps he saw someone with tattoos and/or piercings and wondered to himself how the company could employ such a crude animal and consider themselves professionals.
- CPound excuses himself, saying he needs to use the restroom. Instead, CPound begins snooping around the company's facilities for some reason or another, maybe to tail the tattooed person and "expose" him for the scary thug CPound knows he is, who might be blackmailing the CEO and/or performing other criminal acts without anyone knowing.
- The web developer guy finds CPound and politely asks him what he's doing. CPound is unable to come up with a response, and the interviewer is informed. CPound is thanked for his time and asked to leave the premises (Alternative: The tattooed and/or pierced "thug" is the one who asked CPound what he was doing, and CPound ran away for fear of getting jumped in the parking lot. Alternative #2: CPound is thrown out of the company by security and told not to show his face again or charges will be pressed against him).
- Frustrated that he's lost yet another interview (which in his mind means another group of folks who can't begin to comprehend his genius), CPound concocts the story we see here about an overly-inquisitive web developer who gives him the third degree about loitering, hoping to make us sympathize with him.
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RE: Another stunning interview answer
@asuffield said:
I have always found it deeply amusing that most companies hire people based on precisely one skill: how good they are at lying to their (prospective) boss.
QFT. That's always ironically funny that they expect you to be honest and truthful with them, but during the interview, if you answer something honestly (such as this person did, or admit you screwed up something in a past job and was fired, but have since improved) then you'll probably not get the job since you're a "bad risk"
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RE: Really dynamic webpages
@dhromed said:
@TheRubyWarlock said:
It's also a big red flag when being asked to change a line of text takes over a day and a half to locate the variable where the text is set, and still being unable to find it.
Don't you have a Search feature?
Yes, but it was not found in any of the files I looked at. I did a Search, and it said not found. So there was over 13,000 files to look through to try and find it.
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RE: Sexism in IT
@dhromed said:
Report it.
This is bullshit.
Seconded. If your country has laws against it, report this nonsense. If not ,then do what the other guy said and dress up like a woman. Sell the rights to a film producer and you'll make millions.. then give us some for suggesting it to you in the first place :-)
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RE: Really dynamic webpages
@PSWorx said:
Fro what I've seen ASP.NET seems to have its own share of WTFs though. I mean, ViewState, anyone?
Touche. But still not as bad as Clbuttic ASP.
Oh, I have another brief bit from this same huge app: A comment that reads something like "We will uncomment this variable once we have checked the code to make sure it's not declared anywhere else". You'd think that would be a sign that something needs to be consolidated. It's also a big red flag when being asked to change a line of text takes over a day and a half to locate the variable where the text is set, and still being unable to find it.
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RE: Really dynamic webpages
I've actually seen good Classic ASP code... once. In a book. Or maybe on a webpage. But most of it has been scary stuff. Like I said above, the code here (well actually I just left the job for a variety of reasons) has includes that reference other includes that reference other includes, with some variables not being in any common includes but still set somewhere. They used what they called a "Page Set" which meant you had for example: foo.asp (handles layout, although everything is done via function calls that write out HTML), foo_inc.asp (variables/methods for foo.asp, usually one long method/logic), foo_js.asp (JavaScript for foo.asp - why on earth this wasn't in its own JS file is beyond me [I guess so you couldn't view it directly in the browser?] especially since most of the xxx_js.asp files had similar javascript). The fact that foo.asp and foo_inc.asp both included page logic made it a treat to look through.
I so much prefer ASP.NET. Much cleaner and friendlier to separate logic and presentation without resorting to Clbuttic ASP weirdness
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Really dynamic webpages
Just started a new job (which I absolutely hate and might quit, but that's another story) on Monday. I found these admist a huge Classic ASP application (I'm talking over 13,000 ASP files and over 1,000 folders). Not sure if they're really WTFs, but they sure seem WTF-y to me; I've never seen anything like this before. Sorry, I don't know how to format the code all pretty-like:
Function GetRequiredColor(byval blnRequired)
'response.write(blnRequired)
If blnRequired Then
GetRequiredColor = "#FF0000"
Else
GetRequiredColor = "#FFFFFF"
End If
End FunctionFunction RequiredMarker(byval blnRequired)
If blnRequired Then
RequiredMarker = "<font color=""#FF0000"">*</font> "
Else
RequiredMarker = " "
End If
End FunctionFunction PrintWindowBottomButton(str_DirLevel, str_Caption, str_Position, str_Title, str_PageHeader, str_PageFooter, str_portrait, str_CloseBottomWindow, str_LeftMargin, str_RightMargin, str_TopMargin, str_BottomMargin, str_BackBtn)
If str_DirLevel = "" Then
str_DirLevel = "../../../"
End IfIf str_Caption = "" Then
str_Caption = "Print"
End IfIf str_Position = "" Then
str_Position = "Center"
End IfIf str_Title = "" Then
str_Title = "Click here to print!"
End IfIf str_PageHeader = "" Then
str_PageHeader = ""
End IfIf str_PageFooter = "" Then
str_PageFooter = "Page &p of &P"
End IfIf str_Portrait = "" or LCASE(str_Portrait) = "true" Then
str_Portrait = "true"
Else
str_Portrait = "false"
End IfWith Response
.Write "<script> " & vbcrlf
.Write "function PrintBottomWindow(strPrintHead, strPrintFoot)" & vbcrlf
.Write "{ " & vbcrlf
.Write "if (navigator.appName == 'Microsoft Internet Explorer')" & vbcrlf
.Write "{ " & vbcrlf
.Write "document.factory.printing.header = '" & str_PageHeader & "'; " & vbcrlf
.Write "document.factory.printing.footer = '" & str_PageFooter & "';" & vbcrlf
.Write "document.factory.printing.portrait = " & str_Portrait & ";" & vbcrlf
If Len(str_LeftMargin) > 0 Then .Write "document.factory.printing.leftMargin = " & str_LeftMargin & "; " & vbcrlf
If Len(str_TopMargin) > 0 Then .Write "document.factory.printing.topMargin = " & str_TopMargin & "; " & vbcrlf
If Len(str_RightMargin) > 0 Then .Write "document.factory.printing.rightMargin = " & str_RightMargin & "; " & vbcrlf
If Len(str_BottomMargin) > 0 Then .Write "document.factory.printing.bottomMargin = " & str_BottomMargin & "; " & vbcrlf
.Write "document.factory.printing.Print(true); " & vbcrlf
.Write "} " & vbcrlf
.Write "else " & vbcrlf
.Write "{ " & vbcrlf
.Write "window.print();" & vbcrlf
.Write "} " & vbcrlf
.Write "} " & vbcrlf
.Write "</script> " & vbcrlf
.Write "<" & str_Position & "> " & vbcrlf
.Write "<input type='button' name='btnPrintBottom' id='btnPrintBottom' class='formbutt' title='" & str_Title & "' value='" & str_Caption & "' onclick='PrintBottomWindow();'>"
If str_CloseBottomWindow <> "" and LCASE(str_CloseBottomWindow) <> "true" Then
.Write " <input type='button' name='btnCloseBottom' id='btnCloseBottom' class='formbutt' value='" & str_CloseBottomWindow & "' onclick='window.close();'>"
End If
If str_BackBtn <> "" and LCASE(str_BackBtn) <> "false" Then
.Write " <input type='button' name='btnBack' id='btnBack' class='formbutt' value='" & str_BackBtn & "' onclick='history.back();'>"
End If
.Write "</" & str_Position & "><br>" & vbcrlf
End With
End Function</" ? & str_Position> -
RE: We have automated tests so our code is reliable
@snoofle said:
The rationale, as explained to me, is that we only need to know that the tests pass; we can ignore the console output.
That's even better! Did you.. oh, I dunno.. explain that the tests are designed to "pass" no matter what, even if they don't work, so you're not actually testing anything? Then again don't do that. They're liable to label you a troublemaker and let you go, and then I'd feel bad.
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RE: We have automated tests so our code is reliable
Wow... so let's see. Unless I'm mistaken there are two possible outcomes, and both are shining examples of WTFery:
1) The code executes in the try block, and if no exceptions occur there's no assertions made, so the test passes... without actually asserting that things are what they should be.
2) If an exception occurs... it prints the exception to the console.. and asserts that True is True, so the test passes.
Now I've not used JUnit, but I've used NUnit. This seems to be as "effective" as not running any tests at all, since from the look of things it'll "pass" the test regardless of what happened.
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RE: Adventures at My New Company - Story #4
Re: Adventures at My New Company - Story #4
Let's see.. given this is CPound we're talking about, here's what probably happened:
- CPound somehow obtained a job.
- "Ralph" is probably a "hairy, tattooed, pierced beast" who CPound insulted due to his "tats".
- Ralph therefore doesn't like CPound, and threatened to kick his ass
- CPound whined like a baby his boss, and demanded Ralph be fired (for being a hairy, tattooed, pierced beast). CPound's boss laughed and said that Ralph does good work. CPound vehemently argued that people with "tats" are dangerous to the company and should be fired.
- CPound's boss instead fired CPound for being an idiot, and he was escorted to his car before he could collect his personal belongings.
- CPound, to save face, came up with this cock-and-bull story to make himself look sane and everyone else look insane.
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RE: Adventures at My New Company - Story #3
@dhromed said:
What kind of fucked company entertains the concept of "insubordination"?
What is this? A pirate ship? The army?
Sadly most of them seem to act like this (not for something as stupid, but the concept of "insubordination"). Management thinks that because they somehow got into management, they know everything about everything, and employees should just shut up and do what they're told, instead of think rationally (because, you know, it might make the boss look like the idiot he is). So the whole concept of "insubordination" is there to keep "grunts in line" and from making management (They do the real work, you know. The rest of us are shit and could be replaced easily) look bad.
Utter rubbish concept, of course, but that's how the world works.
Although now I'm intrigued at the idea of treating a company like a pirate ship and making insubordinates walk the plank. It could work, too, since our local football team is pirate-themed. Yarr!
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RE: Adventures at My New Company - Story #2
@CPound said:
@dhromed said:
Tell,
Are there balanced, informed, quiet individuals in your day-to-day environment as well?
Nope.
I think YOU are the wack-job, and you're making this stuff up to make it so that you seem normal. Good for a laugh, though
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RE: What does Microsoft *do* with .NET technologies?
I believe (not 100% sure) that MS Small Business Accounting (and maybe the newer version? Accounting 2007 or whatever it's called) is written in C#.
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RE: Just got the boot
You know what? You're right. I've already started experimenting with some of the things that gave me "trouble" at that job so I'll be better prepared for the next one. If nothing else, the experience exposed me to a "better" (subjectively speaking) way of doing things than what I had used at the jobs before. Although everybody who I have spoke to have always said you should put in exactly 100% (i.e. only *ever* work 8 hours since you don't get paid for working over it - no reason to give extra for no return), you're correct in that I should have spent more time at home playing around with similar methodologies so I would have been better prepared.
I guess my initial post was more A) Frustrated venting (I *had* to get it off my chest, and knew of no other way to do so), and B) Shock/surprise/anger at being let go without ever being told that I wasn't learning quick enough or was doing something "wrong". -
RE: Just got the boot
Let me just clarify that by "come in early and left early" I mean "Worked normal hours" - i.e. 9-5. The rest of the team would routinely come in at 10:30-11:00 and therefore stay until 6 or 7pm (pretty much by the time they arrived at work, I was nearing my lunch break); they also lived in the same area while I had an hour and 20 minute commute one-way. They were okay with my working "regular" hours as I mentioned it during the interview (my previous job, I would come in at 7am and leave at 3pm). My point was that I would have stayed until 6 or 7 a few days a week to learn more of the system (idea being that "after hours" I'd have time to sit down and go over the things I wasn't sure about) had it been mentioned that I wasn't learning fast enough.
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RE: Just got the boot
Wow harsh comments there. Let's see: I *do* have a degree, just not in Computer Science. I *am* a decent programmer, just not up to speed on all these so-called "right way to do things" methodologies. Right To Work *is* bullshit because it means the company doesn't need a reason to fire you (i.e. it basically means they can discriminate against you and you can't prove it at all). And lastly, pay seems to go up/down depending on the business in question - some offer peanuts for work that would cost a lot of money because they're A) cheapskates and B) think they can get someone to work for that amount.
So.. you mean to say that *I* am at fault for not learning a system that I had no prior experience with, and never was able to ask questions, never received any sort of "mentoring", and on top of that was never informed that I wasn't learning it fast enough UNTIL the minute I got fired? Glad I don't work with you fellas.
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RE: Just got the boot
The thing is - I thought I was learning the system. Nobody ever once came to me and said "I'd really like to give you more responsibility, but I'm not sure you know enough about our system yet. You should <look through the code/read more/etc.> to get a better feel for it so we can start you on real projects.", or made any indication at all that I wasn't making adequate progress. I thought everything was going well, and then its "Oh, you weren't learning as quickly as we wanted, so we're letting you go."
And yes, in most states the employer can fire you for any reason (or none at all) due to this bullshit "Right To Work" law (My grandfather keeps saying it's also what lets them pay as little as they want to - the idea being that *someone* will take the job, so if you don't want to be paid $10/hour for a dev job, then don't - somebody else will). Besides that, I was coming up on the end of my probationary term, so by getting rid of me before it finishes they don't have to pay any benefits.
And, for the record, the reason I didn't use testing or source control or anything in prior jobs is because I had only recently been exposed to programming (I'm self-taught, no fancy math-and-theory-laden CS degree here) and I honestly didn't know those things existed, and the companies I had worked for would have viewed them as a waste of time/money anyways. So that was one benefit of this job: It exposed me to Test-Driven Development (which I like) and how to "properly" decouple things.
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RE: Just got the boot
To answer the questions: The code was somewhat documented (believed in self-documenting code, so pretty much zero comments throughout). The unit tests helped a little, but not much since I still had to learn real "design patterns" like having everything reference an abstract interface instead of the class itself, and remember all the data mappers and whatnot. I was starting to get the hang of it, but remember I had never worked with it prior to this job (I've been used to being the sole developer, so none of that stuff was a concern). I'm not really bitter, I just wish it was brought to my attention that I needed to spend more time learning the system (I came in early and left early, I would have gladly stayed a few hours extra to get "help" with what I wasn't sure about), instead of just an abrupt firing without any communication prior.
That's actually what a (non-IT) friend of mine said: If they didn't give me any inclination that I wasn't performing to standards, they shouldn't have hired me in the first place, because they knew from the start I wasn't familiar with Agile Design, design patterns, source control and the like.
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RE: Just got the boot
@DZ-Jay said:
If on the other hand they were aware of your lack of experience in their particular methodologies and platforms, but still offered you the job, then it strikes me as strange that they wouldn't mentor you further, expecting you to slowly "grow into" the team.
-dZ.</blockquote></p><p>They knew about it. I mentioned at the interview that I wasn't familiar with "Agile" design, or Unit Testing and the like. I got very little mentoring, basically an overview, but the way their code was written it would often take me a day to just read through it and figure out what it was doing (loads of abstractions) before I knew what I needed to modify to fix a bug or accomplish a task. I'm not saying I'm not totally at fault (as I should have done more research I guess, or asked more questions?), but it seemed a bit abrupt also because there wasn't any discussion about it with ways I could improve.. just basically "You know, you're not really as experienced with this as the rest of us, so we're letting you go."<br> </p>
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Just got the boot
So.. yeah.. I just got canned from my ASP.NET job - I had only been there about two and a half months and was trying to learn their system (had never worked with an 'agile' design team before, or used TDD or abstract mappers or interfaces for everything), when my boss calls me in and tells me they're letting me go because I didn't learn the system as quick as they had hoped (without actually saying it, it was implied that I wasn't experienced enough to do any 'real' development compared to the rest of the team). I was under the impression that it took several months for a new dev to learn an existing system (especially a pretty complex one like this was), and that you'd barely be expected to know that much after just two months.
So, life goes on. Maybe I'll spend some time teaching myself more of Ruby and .NET (see my nickname :-p) while I look for a new job. I did learn some neat tricks though, so I guess it wasn't a total bust, although a bit frustrating that I was barely given the chance to do anything before being cut.