Bitching about Skyrim bugginess
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@dhromed said:
@blakeyrat said:
You know, sometimes I just start up Skyrim and walk around for a bit.
Okay, I thought you never liked eyecandy just for the sake of eyecandy.
I do the same with the AssCreeds.
I used to do the same with Prototype. I would spend half an hour running laps around the city at max speed or bounding gaily across rooftops.
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@dhromed said:
Whoa, can you elaborate a little? You're referring to the physics that I think may have been far too awesome for a plain shooter?
... huh?
What does physics have to do with emergent gameplay?
In any case, I wish people would stop saying "plain shooter." If Far Cry 2 were meant to be a "plain shooter", it wouldn't have been open world in the first place. Clearly they were trying for something more and failed-- the reason it's a "plain shooter" is because it utterly failed at being whatever it was supposed to be.
My hunch is it was supposed to be STALKER, except set in Africa instead of the Exclusion Zone. And it failed at that.
@dhromed said:
Okay, I thought you never liked eyecandy just for the sake of eyecandy.
Where the fuck do you people get this stuff? When have I ever said that? Quote me. Link it. I want to know.
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@lettucemode said:
I used to do the same with Prototype. I would spend half an hour running laps around the city at max speed or bounding gaily across rooftops.
Prototype totally ripped that from Crackdown. You'll note that when I named designers who could have made Far Cry 2 work, I named the Crackdown designers. This was not an accident. There is a purpose and pattern to the words I type.
Anyway I'd never play Prototype because of the crazy morality involved. "Whee I get to play as a guy who pointlessly slaughters tons of completely innocent people! Not just people, but soldiers there in good faith defending the populace of the city!" Yeah, I know, it's the whole GTA thing, but I can't get into GTA either for the same reason. I don't buy the whole "video games cause violence" thing, but I do wonder about people who enjoy games like Prototype.
At least in Crackdown you can pretend you're legitimate law enforcement.
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@blakeyrat said:
Where the fuck do you people get this stuff?
It was an inference. This is the first time as far as I can remember that you mention enjoying the graphics and atmosphere of a game in a personal sight-seeing way.
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@dhromed said:
@blakeyrat said:
Where the fuck do you people get this stuff?
It was an inference. This is the first time as far as I can remember that you mention enjoying the graphics and atmosphere of a game in a personal sight-seeing way.<a href="http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/24447/255697.aspx#255697>http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/24447/255697.aspx#255697
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@blakeyrat said:
The most fun part of Far Cry 2, by far, was getting in a jeep and tooling around in the beautiful Africa-esque world. I'd have enjoyed just driving from point A to point B significantly more if my jeep didn't keep getting shot-up.
Plus, you're often getting shot up by guys who are working for the same people you're working for. The soldiers of the two main factions are always hostile to you — even if you're on a mission for one of the factions. The faction leaders will actually warn you about this when you accept missions from them.
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@blakeyrat said:
@dhromed said:
@blakeyrat said:
Where the fuck do you people get this stuff?
It was an inference. This is the first time as far as I can remember that you mention enjoying the graphics and atmosphere of a game in a personal sight-seeing way.
Presence Sensor
@dhromed said:Hah! You've never played the Assassin's Creeds? Half-life 2? These are truly lovely games. Try walking around Venice in AC2. Fallout 3 looks pretty great as well. Bioshock 2 has some scenes that literally took my breath away. The two or thre...
It is absolutely crazy how I didn't remember that.
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@dhromed said:
It is absolutely crazy how I didn't remember that.
Not as crazy as just spinning the Wheel Of Character Traits, assigning one to me at random, then not bothering to do any kind of verification as to whether it actually applies to me or not. Now that's crazy.
BTW, since we're on the subject kind of a little bit ok not really, you should all visit my only actual mod that isn't a quick tweak or bug fix and hit the "thumbs up" button. Because 12 people have rated it and it only has a 3 star rating. Which is lame. You probably need to own Steam and/or Skyrim to rate though.
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@blakeyrat said:
Everybody who uses the term "dumbed down", no matter what topic they're talking about, is full of shit.
Spoken like someone who's never played Deus Ex: Invisible War.
Or spoken like someone who's just a shit-stirring emotionally stunted attention whore.
Or both.
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@Zylon said:
Spoken like someone who's never played Deus Ex: Invisible War.
Or spoken like someone who's just a shit-stirring emotionally stunted attention whore.
Or both.
"Dumbed down" doesn't actually mean anything. The closest meaning is, "I have a knee-jerk hatred of this thing, but I don't know and/or can't articulate why".
If you have a actual reason to hate Deus Ex: Invisible War, then by all means share it. But if you just call it "dumbed-down", I'm going to assume you're an idiot. I don't want to talk to people who knee-jerk, I want to talk to people who engage their brain and think.
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@blakeyrat said:
I don't want to talk to people who knee-jerk, I want to talk to people who engage their brain and think.
Knee-jerk is just a dumbed-down way of thinking.
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@blakeyrat said:
"Dumbed down" doesn't actually mean anything. The closest meaning is, "I have a knee-jerk hatred of this thing, but I don't know and/or can't articulate why".
Maybe that's accurate in this case as far as what he was actually saying, but that's certainly not what "dumbed down" means. It typically means that something was simplified, or details were removed. Anyways, it has its own wikipedia entry, so it must be something.
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@blakeyrat said:
If you have a actual reason to hate Deus Ex: Invisible War, then by all means share it. But if you just call it "dumbed-down", I'm going to assume you're an idiot. I don't want to talk to people who knee-jerk, I want to talk to people who engage their brain and think.
people love to conflate "dumbed down" with "consolized", which Invisible War was. Like Ultima 9, if the game didn't have the expections of Deus Ex weighing it down it would have been hailed as a reasonable Deus Ex clone.
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@boomzilla said:
Maybe that's accurate in this case as far as what he was actually saying, but that's certainly not what "dumbed down" means.
That's what it means every time I've heard it used.
Usually when you ask someone to defend its use, they reply with a stupid non-issue, like: "the rooms are smaller so it loads more often", or "the UI is designed for a controller". As if those things were relevant to the quality of a game...
@boomzilla said:
Anyways, it has its own wikipedia entry, so it must be something.
So does this spaceship model that appeared in exactly one episode of Space: 1999 in 1975.
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@blakeyrat said:
If you have a actual reason to hate Deus Ex: Invisible War, then by all means share it. But if you just call it "dumbed-down", I'm going to assume you're an idiot. I don't want to talk to people who knee-jerk, I want to talk to people who engage their brain and think.
First, you assume everyone is an idiot. Second, people who aren't idiots are highly unlikely to want to converse with a defensive, juvenile, rage fount such as yourself. Third, Invisible War's dumbing-down is well-documented. It is in, in almost every measurable way, a lesser game than the original-- smaller levels, smaller inventory, simplified hacking, the much-maligned "universal ammo" (thus granting a supposed RPG a simpler ammo system than Doom. DOOM.), no weapon reloading, no skill system, no conversation logging, no flavor text on item descriptions, no localized damage, no lockpicks, no long philosophical conversations with bartenders, no leaning... and so on and so forth. But hey, you can play as a girl.
That being said, regardless of your personal opinion of IW, categorically rejecting the entire concept of "dumbing down" is moronic, since it asserts that it is impossible to make something dumber. This is of, of course, absurd. For example, you do it to this forum every time you post.
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@Zylon said:
First, you assume everyone is an idiot.
That's fair.
@Zylon said:
But hey, you can play as a girl.
Are you actually trying to frame that as a bad thing? Cripes.
@Zylon said:
Third, Invisible War's dumbing-down is well-documented. It is in, in almost every measurable way, a lesser game than the original-- smaller levels, smaller inventory, simplified hacking, the much-maligned "universal ammo" (thus granting a supposed RPG a simpler ammo system than Doom. DOOM.), no weapon reloading, no skill system, no conversation logging, no flavor text on item descriptions, no localized damage, no lockpicks, no long philosophical conversations with bartenders, no leaning... and so on and so forth.
Here's a brain-puzzler for you: if you took Mass Effect 2, and removed the prospecting mini-game, would you consider that dumbed down?
In other words, if a developer removes unnecessary and pointless complexity, by your definition, that still counts as "dumbed down", and yet the game is much better because of it. I guess in that case, you'd say it's "streamlined" instead of "dumbed down", right? Heh.
Take Deus Ex. The original game sold 1 million copies. Invisible War sold 1.2 million copies. It doesn't sound to be like being "dumbed down" hurt it much. And that's at least one measurable way it is not a lesser game than the original.
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@blakeyrat said:
@Zylon said:
I'm pretty sure he was trying to frame that as "neat, but not nearly as important as all that stuff they took out."But hey, you can play as a girl.
Are you actually trying to frame that as a bad thing? Cripes.
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@Sutherlands said:
@blakeyrat said:
@Zylon said:
But hey, you can play as a girl.
Are you actually trying to frame that as a bad thing? Cripes.
I'm pretty sure he was trying to frame that as "neat, but not nearly as important as all that stuff they took out."Don't undumb down the rants, please.
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@blakeyrat said:
Usually when you ask someone to defend its use, they reply with a stupid non-issue, like: "the rooms are smaller so it loads more often", or "the UI is designed for a controller". As if those things were relevant to the quality of a game...
You should create a barely-legible website that offers suggestions for alternative phrasings.
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@Zylon said:
simplified hacking
OK, I never played IW because I heard about a lot of the issues you described, but not that one. And it boggles my mind a little. IIRC, wasn't hacking in the original Deus Ex basically the same as lockpicking? You point your haxxo-matic at a computer or keypad and click the mouse button and it gets hacked. How can you possibly simplify that any further?
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@blakeyrat said:
Take Deus Ex. The original game sold 1 million copies. Invisible War sold 1.2 million copies. It doesn't sound to be like being "dumbed down" hurt it much.
Wasn't Invisible War available on a wider range of platforms than Deus Ex? Also, just out of curiosity, are sales figures available for Human Revolution, which by all accounts is much more true to the spirit of the original than IW was?
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OMG I spent a few hours tonight making a new mod! I R EXPERT GAMEBRYO MODDER!
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@blakeyrat said:
I'm the exact opposite of a Wikipedia "deletionist"
I believe they prefer to be called deletistas
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@blakeyrat said:
So does this spaceship model that appeared in exactly one episode of Space: 1999 in 1975.
Ohh, I have fond memories of that show....
@Mason Wheeler said:
Human Revolution, which by all accounts is much more true to the spirit of the original than IW was?
Well some purist might disagree with you but I liked it... is it me or are old games making a comeback? (sometimes for the worse)
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@serguey123 said:
@Mason Wheeler said:
Human Revolution, which by all accounts is much more true to the spirit of the original than IW was?
Well some purist might disagree with you but I liked it... is it me or are old games making a comeback? (sometimes for the worse)
The return of Tribes is uncanny. All the best elements from Tribes combined with the best elements from Tribes 2, free-to-play.
The MechWarrior free-to-play remake is looking pretty awesome too, but nobody's played it yet.
In fact, it seems that most of the time old games "come back" the result is pretty good: Fallout 3, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Serious Sam 3. I'd like to see a return of old-school American RPGs like the Wizardry, Might&Magic or Ultima series, though. Might&Magic only exists in turn-based strategy form, and the other two have been completely gone for a decade, overtaken by new-style American RPGs like Elder Scrolls. (Not to say Elder Scrolls is bad, only that there's room for both types of game.)
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@serguey123 said:
@Mason Wheeler said:
Human Revolution, which by all accounts is much more true to the spirit of the original than IW was?
Well some purist might disagree with you but I liked it...
I liked it too, but I was not trying to make a value judgment there, especially as I haven't played IW. I was simply stating as a fact that it seems to be generally agreed upon (at least from all the sources I've seen) that Human Revolution was a lot closer to the spirit of the original Deus Ex than Invisible War was. Whether that's a good thing or not depends on your personal tastes.
is it me or are old games making a comeback?
Funny you should mention that. I just downloaded Final Fantasy: Origins this morning for my PSP. It's the original Final Fantasy and FF2, redone with 16-bit graphics, gorgeous CD-quality soundtracks and (at least in the case of FF1) an actual comprehensible plot. Basically what the game would have been if they hadn't been bound by the limitations of NES hardware when they made it. And it's really enjoyable so far.
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@Mason Wheeler said:
is it me or are old games making a comeback?
Funny you should mention that. I just downloaded Final Fantasy: Origins this morning for my PSP. It's the original Final Fantasy and FF2, redone with 16-bit graphics, gorgeous CD-quality soundtracks and (at least in the case of FF1) an actual comprehensible plot. Basically what the game would have been if they hadn't been bound by the limitations of NES hardware when they made it. And it's really enjoyable so far.
To be fair, that's a pretty terrible example of a game making a come back, since Final Fantasy 1 has been coming back since it was made, more than any other game I can think of (Original: NES, Re-release: MSX, Wonderswan, PS1, GBA, PSP, iOS).
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@pkmnfrk said:
@Mason Wheeler said:
is it me or are old games making a comeback?
Funny you should mention that. I just downloaded Final Fantasy: Origins this morning for my PSP. It's the original Final Fantasy and FF2, redone with 16-bit graphics, gorgeous CD-quality soundtracks and (at least in the case of FF1) an actual comprehensible plot. Basically what the game would have been if they hadn't been bound by the limitations of NES hardware when they made it. And it's really enjoyable so far.
To be fair, that's a pretty terrible example of a game making a come back, since Final Fantasy 1 has been coming back since it was made, more than any other game I can think of (Original: NES, Re-release: MSX, Wonderswan, PS1, GBA, PSP, iOS).
Good point. But it deserves it. This (and to a lesser extent, FF4) is the game that almost single-handedly defined an entire genre. For 25 years now, people have been building on the foundation that it laid. Having more people exposed to it and learning what made it so fun can only be a good thing. :)
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@pkmnfrk said:
Final Fantasy 1 has been coming back since it was made,
FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7 etc.
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@blakeyrat said:
The MechWarrior free-to-play remake is looking pretty awesome too, but nobody's played it yet.
Ohhh, that might be interesting
@blakeyrat said:Fallout 3, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Serious Sam 3.
Yes, but not all of them are great, think of XCOM or Syndicate and others (I totally blame EA :))
@blakeyrat said:
I'd like to see a return of old-school American RPGs like the Wizardry, Might&Magic or Ultima series, though.
I second this, there was a rumor about Ultima hmmmm
@blakeyrat said:
Might&Magic only exists in turn-based strategy form
I like it but I like Disciples more. However there are a few others like Neverwinternights or some others from D&D franchise
@pkmnfrk said:
To be fair, that's a pretty terrible example of a game making a come back, since Final Fantasy 1 has been coming back since it was made, more than any other game I can think of (Original: NES, Re-release: MSX, Wonderswan, PS1, GBA, PSP, iOS)
Yeah but thanks to that the rest of the non japanese speaking world got to play ff3 for example
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@Mason Wheeler said:
Good point. But it deserves it. This (and to a lesser extent, FF4) is the game that almost single-handedly defined an entire genre. For 25 years now, people have been building on the foundation that it laid. Having more people exposed to it and learning what made it so fun can only be a good thing. :)
- Jesus Christ, I bet you're upset Final Fantasy doesn't have a cock you can suck
2) We're talking about games that WENT AWAY then CAME BACK. The Final Fantasy series never went away, so you're talking about something completely different than the rest of us.
3) Final Fantasy, and the entire genre of JRPG in general, is shit.
4) It didn't "define a genre", it took an existing genre (the American party-based, turn-based RPGs I mentioned in a previous post) and slightly changed the formula to work better on a low-powered game console.
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@pkmnfrk said:
Final Fantasy 1 has been coming back since it was made, more than any other game I can think of (Original: NES, Re-release: MSX, Wonderswan, PS1, GBA, PSP, iOS).
Waitasec. iOS?!? Is that even possible? Final Fantasy is a complex game that requires multiple buttons to control the gameplay. How in the world can it be ported to a system with only one input button and no keyboard, that can only support insipid finger-gesture controls like on Angry Birds?
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@Mason Wheeler said:
Movement? Tap where you want to go. Select a combat command? Tap the character/command. Select an enemy? Tap the enemy.@pkmnfrk said:
Final Fantasy 1 has been coming back since it was made, more than any other game I can think of (Original: NES, Re-release: MSX, Wonderswan, PS1, GBA, PSP, iOS).
Waitasec. iOS?!? Is that even possible? Final Fantasy is a complex game that requires multiple buttons to control the gameplay. How in the world can it be ported to a system with only one input button and no keyboard, that can only support insipid finger-gesture controls like on Angry Birds?
Yeah, I think you think it's more complicated than it is.
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@Sutherlands said:
@Mason Wheeler said:
Movement? Tap where you want to go. Select a combat command? Tap the character/command. Select an enemy? Tap the enemy.@pkmnfrk said:
Final Fantasy 1 has been coming back since it was made, more than any other game I can think of (Original: NES, Re-release: MSX, Wonderswan, PS1, GBA, PSP, iOS).
Waitasec. iOS?!? Is that even possible? Final Fantasy is a complex game that requires multiple buttons to control the gameplay. How in the world can it be ported to a system with only one input button and no keyboard, that can only support insipid finger-gesture controls like on Angry Birds?
Yeah, I think you think it's more complicated than it is.
The real question is: how did they port it without a Javascript debugger?
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@Mason Wheeler said:
OK, I never played IW because I heard about a lot of the issues you described, but not that one. And it boggles my mind a little. IIRC, wasn't hacking in the original Deus Ex basically the same as lockpicking? You point your haxxo-matic at a computer or keypad and click the mouse button and it gets hacked. How can you possibly simplify that any further
A fair question. In the original Deus Ex, the way hacking worked was that you "hacked" a computer/security console/ATM by either trying to guess the password (or by knowing it from a datapad), or by clicking the HACK button. If you choose to hack in, you only have a limited amount of time to access the system, and if you stay in too long you get fried.
In Invisible War, you of course can't engage in password-guessing, since there's no typing interface. If you have the hacking biomod, you will just automatically hack any device you try to access, whether you wanted to or not. And once you're in, you're in. No time limit.
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@Sutherlands said:
@Mason Wheeler said:
Movement? Tap where you want to go. Select a combat command? Tap the character/command. Select an enemy? Tap the enemy.@pkmnfrk said:
Final Fantasy 1 has been coming back since it was made, more than any other game I can think of (Original: NES, Re-release: MSX, Wonderswan, PS1, GBA, PSP, iOS).
Waitasec. iOS?!? Is that even possible? Final Fantasy is a complex game that requires multiple buttons to control the gameplay. How in the world can it be ported to a system with only one input button and no keyboard, that can only support insipid finger-gesture controls like on Angry Birds?
Yeah, I think you think it's more complicated than it is.
Movement: So they implemented a pathfinding algorithm inside the game, and reworked the map engine to support it?
Commands: To avoid fat-finger errors becoming a serious annoyance, they would have had to make all the menu text *much* larger on-screen. And with the complexity of the menu system, they'd have probably needed to rework the entire thing because blowing the text up would mean that what used to fit on one screen no longer fits on one screen.
Plus, how do you even access the menu (not in-combat; the normal menu screen where you get at inventory, equipment, etc)? To make that work, there needs to be some special way to tap the screen that it will never misinterpret as a walking command.
I think it *is* more complicated than it would need to be if Apple had actually designed the iPhone to be functional instead of "cool".
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@Mason Wheeler said:
I think it is more complicated than it would need to be if Apple had actually designed the iPhone to be functional instead of "cool".
Look, I hate Apple as much as the next red-blooded, heterosexual male, but is our definition of "functional" now "makes it easy to play a shitty 25 year-old game"?
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Mason Wheeler said:
I think it *is* more complicated than it would need to be if Apple had actually designed the iPhone to be functional instead of "cool".
Look, I hate Apple as much as the next red-blooded, heterosexual male, but is our definition of "functional" now "makes it easy to play a shitty 25 year-old game"?
...or anything else complex enough to require discrete input from a source independent of the highly limiting constraints imposed by a touchscreen.
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@morbiuswilters said:
The real question is: how did they port it without a Javascript debugger?
Hm, I think you're right
@Mason Wheeler said:
Or it's simply "move toward curser click"Movement: So they implemented a pathfinding algorithm inside the game, and reworked the map engine to support it?
@Mason Wheeler said:
The basic commands in battle are now buttons. Just check out the screenshots. I don't know how to get to inventory from the world view, but I'm sure it's not very hard.Commands: To avoid fat-finger errors becoming a serious annoyance, they would have had to make all the menu text *much* larger on-screen. And with the complexity of the menu system, they'd have probably needed to rework the entire thing because blowing the text up would mean that what used to fit on one screen no longer fits on one screen.
Plus, how do you even access the menu (not in-combat; the normal menu screen where you get at inventory, equipment, etc)? To make that work, there needs to be some special way to tap the screen that it will never misinterpret as a walking command.
@morbiuswilters said:
shitty 25 year-old game
Why you little...
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@Mason Wheeler said:
@Sutherlands said:
Sounds like what they did to Zelda for the DS (Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks). <Sarcasm>So what if the DS has a D-pad, 4 standard buttons, LR buttons, and start select buttons? Those are not needed at all if you are playing such a simple game like Zelda. You can easily play Zelda on the DS with only a stylus and the mic.</Sarcasm> Ignoring everything else wrong with those two games they greatly increased the artificial difficulty of those games by making them exclusively use the stylus for almost everything. There was so many times that I would slash but instead my character would jump off a cliff instead, or I would start slashing when I am trying to run for my life. Also you cant camera pan when on boat/train while attacking since they both require the stylus (which is exceptionally painful when you factor in both you and the enemy are normally moving). To top it off some of the weapons in those zelda games used the mic to activate them, which if there is any background noise that said mic would pick it up and kindly start randomly activating your weapon at the most inconvienent times.@Mason Wheeler said:
Movement? Tap where you want to go. Select a combat command? Tap the character/command. Select an enemy? Tap the enemy.@pkmnfrk said:
Final Fantasy 1 has been coming back since it was made, more than any other game I can think of (Original: NES, Re-release: MSX, Wonderswan, PS1, GBA, PSP, iOS).
Waitasec. iOS?!? Is that even possible? Final Fantasy is a complex game that requires multiple buttons to control the gameplay. How in the world can it be ported to a system with only one input button and no keyboard, that can only support insipid finger-gesture controls like on Angry Birds?
Yeah, I think you think it's more complicated than it is.
Movement: So they implemented a pathfinding algorithm inside the game, and reworked the map engine to support it?
Commands: To avoid fat-finger errors becoming a serious annoyance, they would have had to make all the menu text *much* larger on-screen. And with the complexity of the menu system, they'd have probably needed to rework the entire thing because blowing the text up would mean that what used to fit on one screen no longer fits on one screen.
Plus, how do you even access the menu (not in-combat; the normal menu screen where you get at inventory, equipment, etc)? To make that work, there needs to be some special way to tap the screen that it will never misinterpret as a walking command.
I think it *is* more complicated than it would need to be if Apple had actually designed the iPhone to be functional instead of "cool".
I could not even imagine how bad it would be to try and play it with a fingers rather than a stylus on an iPad or iPhone.
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@Mason Wheeler said:
@morbiuswilters said:
@Mason Wheeler said:
I think it is more complicated than it would need to be if Apple had actually designed the iPhone to be functional instead of "cool".
Look, I hate Apple as much as the next red-blooded, heterosexual male, but is our definition of "functional" now "makes it easy to play a shitty 25 year-old game"?
...or anything else complex enough to require discrete input from a source independent of the highly limiting constraints imposed by a touchscreen.
I have never needed a physical keyboard on my phone and will murder anyone who tries to force me to use one. I'm no fan of the iPhone, but not because it is difficult to use. Seriously, what are you doing with your phone that you need a physical keyboard (I'm excluding playing shitty 25 year-old RPGs)?
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@morbiuswilters said:
Seriously, what are you doing with your phone that you need a physical keyboard?
Well for starters, anything I would need a keyboard for! Particularly writing emails, writing comments to articles and blog posts, or using the GPS app to get directions somewhere. An on-screen keyboard is horrible for two reasons. First, it takes up 2/3 of the screen, which means that I lose all that context. And second, there's no tactile feedback, which both slows you down and makes it far too easy to fat-finger something even if your fingers aren't particularly fat. I stopped looking at the keys while I type something like 15 years ago. Having a phone that forces you to do so is a huge leap backwards in usability.
And Apple knows it. That's why they have Autocorrect. Which, like any automated attempt to use heuristic code to fix human error, (see: JS semicolon insertion,) tends to cause even worse problems than it fixes.
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@Mason Wheeler said:
Well for starters, anything I would need a keyboard for! Particularly writing emails, writing comments to articles and blog posts, or using the GPS app to get directions somewhere. An on-screen keyboard is horrible for two reasons. First, it takes up 2/3 of the screen, which means that I lose all that context. And second, there's no tactile feedback, which both slows you down and makes it far too easy to fat-finger something even if your fingers aren't particularly fat.
I don't type much on my phone because, well, it's a phone and I really would prefer not to. However, I've never found on-screen keyboards difficult to use, although I would use voice recognition for most of the things you are talking about.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Seriously, what are you doing with your phone that you need a physical keyboard
I've (very) occasionally needed to ssh into remote systems when all I have on me is my mobile phone.... (though it's not an iPhone, and I too would baulk at using a Blackberry, not that they're selling to Joe Public any more.)
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@PJH said:
@morbiuswilters said:
Seriously, what are you doing with your phone that you need a physical keyboard
I've (very) occasionally needed to ssh into remote systems when all I have on me is my mobile phone.... (though it's not an iPhone, and I too would baulk at using a Blackberry, not that they're selling to Joe Public any more.)shudder If I am on-call and would need to SSH into anything I would have a laptop with me. I can't imagine fumbling around in a shell on a phone, physical keyboard or not. Hell, I could probably drive home and get my laptop faster than I could accomplish anything useful on a phone.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@PJH said:
@morbiuswilters said:
Seriously, what are you doing with your phone that you need a physical keyboard
I've (very) occasionally needed to ssh into remote systems when all I have on me is my mobile phone.... (though it's not an iPhone, and I too would baulk at using a Blackberry, not that they're selling to Joe Public any more.)shudder If I am on-call and would need to SSH into anything I would have a laptop with me. I can't imagine fumbling around in a shell on a phone, physical keyboard or not. Hell, I could probably drive home and get my laptop faster than I could accomplish anything useful on a phone.
Agreed. Right tool for the right job and all that. "Post-PC Era" hype notwithstanding, any serious computing work still requires a serious computer, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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The most critical advantage with a pull out keyboard (as mentioned by others) is that it saves from taking up 2/3 of the screen. I personally would not mind if the pull out was a second smaller screen rather than a keyboard that way it could be used for any kind of touch controls (similar to the second screen on the DS and 3DS).
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@Anketam said:
The most critical advantage with a pull out keyboard (as mentioned by others) is that it saves from taking up 2/3 of the screen. I personally would not mind if the pull out was a second smaller screen rather than a keyboard that way it could be used for any kind of touch controls (similar to the second screen on the DS and 3DS).
I still don't find this to be a problem. Then again, if I do any typing from my phone it's only a few sentences. I don't write a dozen pages of technical documentation on my phone, but maybe I'm crazy like that..
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@morbiuswilters said:
*shudder* If I am on-call and would need to SSH into anything I would have a laptop with me. I can't imagine fumbling around in a shell on a phone
A super-quick fix or investigation might be okay to do on a phone, until you can get to a proper machine to do the needful.
