How to "Brick" a $100,000 car



  •  @The Understatement said:

    If a Tesla Roadster is parked without being plugged in, the parasitic load from the car’s always-on subsystems continually drains the battery, and if the battery’s charge is ever totally depleted, it is essentially destroyed.  The only known remedy is for the owner to pay Tesla approximately $40,000 to replace the entire battery.  Unlike practically every other modern
    car problem, neither Tesla’s warranty nor typical car insurance policies
    provide any protection from this major financial loss.

    Complete discharge can also happen even if the car is plugged in, if it isn’t receiving sufficient current to charge, which can be caused by something as simple as using an extension cord.  After battery death, the car is completely inoperable.  At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it’s not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn.

    Of the approximately 2,200 Roadsters sold to date, a regional service
    manager for Tesla says he is personally aware of at least five cases
    of Tesla Roadsters being “bricked” due to battery depletion.




  • I find this one more worrying:
    @The Understatement said:

    In at least one case [of trying to proactively prevent bricking], Tesla went even further. The Tesla service manager admitted that, unable to contact an owner by phone, Tesla remotely activated a dying vehicle’s GPS to determine its location and then dispatched Tesla staff to go there. It is not clear if Tesla had obtained this owner’s consent to allow this tracking, or if the owner is even aware that his vehicle had been tracked. Further, the service manager acknowledged that this use of tracking was not something they generally tell customers about.



  • I find this interesting because I'm currently recovering my phone battery from a similar thing. The phone got into an odd state where it discharged the battery to its safety cut off (generally around 2.5v for most lithiums), so I've got the cell hooked up to a bench PSU now to bring it back up. Most lithium batteries have this in-built protection circuit because there is a chance that the battery will form metallic lithium causing a short when recharged and bursting into flame.. so fair enough. Personally I've bought cells back from near zero without dying in flames yet.

    I have been thinking for a while, why on earth would anyone buy a car powered by lipo batteries, not for this reason although this is obviously an issue... what gets me is the ongoing capacity reduction, we've all seen it with phones, laptops and whatever. I usually keep a handset for about five years and usually get through two batteries in that time.. and thats in a mobile phone which is possibly the best case for a lithium battery, its never too hot, doesn't spend much time at 4.2 and never spends long at 2.5. Laptop batteries I find go even quicker depending on usage patterns, often loosing a third of their capacity in the first year. Heat is the big killer.

    I'm not suprised the battery isn't covered by warranty for exactly this reason, its accepted that lithium batteries get old and need replacing. However its worrying if its really happening so easily to a car.

    My phone was an odd case, I've been messing with the firmware and the battery is old now anyway. I've had other phones though, left them in draws for years and still found charge in the battery when I get back, enough to keep above the in-battery safety cut off and charge normally, thats obviously because the phone has a higher cut off to prevent this from happening. It always leaves a few millivolts more than the absolutely safety cut out in the cell to prevent the battery becoming a brick even when left in storage for some time.

    There is no way they can just have overlooked this feature on a car and you have to assume its an intentional 'feature', with batteries that expensive you can kind of see why.

     



  • Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of green jobs.



  • Didn't people used to say that about Priuses also?  I don't know if Teslas are designed the same way but Priuses have two different battery systems.  It has the mondo hybrid batteries that run the car in tandem with the gas engine, but also a smaller battery that runs the accessories like lights, radio, AC, etc.  If you leave interior lights on or park the car for weeks with the RFID door lock feature turned on it will drain the accessory battery.  Toyota insists that when this happens you have to tow it to a dealer, but all you really have to do is hook a charger up to the accessory battery, start it up and then drive for 20 minutes so that the hybrid battery can recharge the accessory battery*.  It's really finely designed.  The hybrid battery never dies except from manufacturing defect because it constantly recharges with the gas engine and braking.  

    * Yep, I've done this a couple times.  I have tall dogs who tend to accidentally switch on the back seat overhead light when I'm not paying attention.



  • In other news Tesla have been told to fuck off in a defamation case.

    Motor manufacturer Tesla has failed in its latest attempt to pursue a legal action against BBC2's Top Gear over a review of one of its electric sports cars.

    [...]

    "Although Tesla say it will do 200 miles we have worked out that on our track it will run out after just 55 miles and if it does run out, it is not a quick job to charge it up again," said Clarkson's commentary.


  • @EncoreSpod said:

    I have been thinking for a while, why on earth would anyone buy a car powered by lipo batteries...

    It's $100k and it's not even meant to be your primary car. It's a toy for the rich. They don't mind replacing batteries every few years.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @EncoreSpod said:
    I have been thinking for a while, why on earth would anyone buy a car powered by lipo batteries...

    It's $100k and it's not even meant to be your primary car. It's a toy for the rich. They don't mind replacing batteries every few years.

    The problem is that they're trying to make/sell a car for the middle class, a station wagon, and so far they've demonstrated approximately zero competence at being able to pull it off.

    The suit against Top Gear is ridiculous on the face of it. The best they can say is they accidentally delivered a defective car to the Top Gear reviewers-- to, with a straight face, claim the show was lying about the range they measured is insane. What possible motive would Top Gear have to lie about that?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The problem is that they're trying to make/sell a car for the middle class, a station wagon, and so far they've demonstrated approximately zero competence at being able to pull it off.

    Did not know that. I'm guessing it's a condition of the bailout money they took?

    @blakeyrat said:

    The suit against Top Gear is ridiculous on the face of it. The best they can say is they accidentally delivered a defective car to the Top Gear reviewers-- to, with a straight face, claim the show was lying about the range they measured is insane. What possible motive would Top Gear have to lie about that?

    Was also unaware of this. Wow, it sounds like Tesla has really gone off the deep end. What a bunch of cocksuckers.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    The problem is that they're trying to make/sell a car for the middle class, a station wagon, and so far they've demonstrated approximately zero competence at being able to pull it off.

    Did not know that. I'm guessing it's a condition of the bailout money they took?

    I'm not sure if it was a condition or not, but it's pretty much their only way of attaining profitability. In another few months, everybody in the world who wanted a Tesla roadster will already have one, so...

    I was wrong, though. The original design was a wagon, apparently they've downsized it into a sedan, starting price: $50k. "Production begins in 2012." We'll see.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    What possible motive would Top Gear have to lie about that?
     

    Well, Top Gear does have an unabashedly boyish preference i.e. bias for Real Machines that go VROOM.



  • @dhromed said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    What possible motive would Top Gear have to lie about that?
     

    Well, Top Gear does have an unabashedly boyish preference i.e. bias for Real Machines that go VROOM.

    A high-end electric car can have amazing performance. In fact, it doesn't seem they were concerned with the performance at all. The problem with all electric cars, and the problem Top Gear pointed out, and the reason why electric cars are doomed outside niche uses for the near future, is the fact that batteries are expensive, hold very little power and take too fucking long to recharge.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    In another few months, everybody in the world who wanted a Tesla roadster will already have one, so...

    :D I've wanted one for awhile, so you're saying I'll get one!?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    In another few months, everybody in the world who wanted a Tesla roadster will already have one, so...
    :D I've wanted one for awhile, so you're saying I'll get one!?
    That phrase applies to "everybody"... a.k.a. people.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    In another few months, everybody in the world who wanted a Tesla roadster will already have one, so...
    :D I've wanted one for awhile, so you're saying I'll get one!?
    That phrase applies to "everybody"... a.k.a. people.

     

    A an Elder Dark One, I think he can simply fashion one out of the tainted souls of Chrysler pick-up truck drivers.

     



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    In another few months, everybody in the world who wanted a Tesla roadster will already have one, so...
    :D I've wanted one for awhile, so you're saying I'll get one!?
    That phrase applies to "everybody"... a.k.a. people.

    That's okay, I've got plenty of hu-man parts I can assemble into a working chimera. It will be a tight fit, though, because most of them were toddlers.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    It's a toy for the rich. They don't mind replacing batteries every few years.
    All electric cars don't cost $100k.  But there is a problem that affects them all, regardless of price -- the battery pack has an absolute finite lifespan and then it has to be replaced.  There's no repair or work-around -- you have to spend several thousand dollars to replace the battery.   These brand new electric cars will be fine for the first few years, but what happens when you want to trade it in for a new model?  Will anyone want to buy a used electric car knowing that they are guaranteed to get hit with a big expense in the next couple of years?  Will any car dealer even take your old electric car as a trade-in knowing that they're going to have trouble selling it?  It seems to me that this could be a pretty big problem.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    All electric cars don't cost $100k.

    Yes, some only cost $40k.

    @El_Heffe said:

    But there is a problem that affects them all, regardless of price -- the battery pack has an absolute finite lifespan and then it has to be replaced.  There's no repair or work-around -- you have to spend several thousand dollars to replace the battery.   These brand new electric cars will be fine for the first few years, but what happens when you want to trade it in for a new model?  Will anyone want to buy a used electric car knowing that they are guaranteed to get hit with a big expense in the next couple of years?  Will any car dealer even take your old electric car as a trade-in knowing that they're going to have trouble selling it?  It seems to me that this could be a pretty big problem.

    You're right, that's why electric cars only make sense as a toy for the rich at this time. Electric cars are a luxury item. The cost of battery replacements is part of the cost of owning one of these status symbols.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    All electric cars don't cost $100k.

    Yes, some only cost $40k.

    Hellz yah:



  • It looks like someone went into MS Paint to get rid of the background and used the line tool around the wheels.



  • I'm sure there is a good reason electric cars don't have a standardized, user swappable battery pack systems.

    That way you could switch to a fully charged battery in seconds; and deal with them just like stores deal with refillable propane tanks.



  • @bgodot said:

    I'm sure there is a good reason electric cars don't have a standardized, user swappable battery pack systems.

    That way you could switch to a fully charged battery in seconds; and deal with them just like stores deal with refillable propane tanks.

    Um, WTF? The batteries weigh hundreds of pounds. You're not going to swap them in seconds..



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @bgodot said:

    I'm sure there is a good reason electric cars don't have a standardized, user swappable battery pack systems.

    That way you could switch to a fully charged battery in seconds; and deal with them just like stores deal with refillable propane tanks.

    Um, WTF? The batteries weigh hundreds of pounds. You're not going to swap them in seconds..

    This is another of the major drawbacks to electric cars.  I've worked with battery powered forklifts.  The batteries probably aren't as big as the ones in electric cars and I can tell you from personal experience they are extremely heavy and swapping out a battery is not a simple quick task.  Removing a battery of that size and weight is similar to removing the engine from a car.

     



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @bgodot said:

    I'm sure there is a good reason electric cars don't have a standardized, user swappable battery pack systems.

    That way you could switch to a fully charged battery in seconds; and deal with them just like stores deal with refillable propane tanks.

    Um, WTF? The batteries weigh hundreds of pounds. You're not going to swap them in seconds..

    This is another of the major drawbacks to electric cars. I've worked with battery powered forklifts. The batteries probably aren't as big as the ones in electric cars and I can tell you from personal experience they are extremely heavy and swapping out a battery is not a simple quick task. Removing a battery of that size and weight is similar to removing the engine from a car.

    Pop Sci used to do articles about "battery changing gas stations", where the batteries were stored in a flat space beneath the car and a conveyor system removed the old battery and inserted a new one. Mechanically, it made sense, even assuming heavy batteries.

    The real problem is: a battery explodes. Who's fault is it? The gas station? The car it was originally attached to? The car it was on when it exploded? How many batteries do you need per car-on-road, considering charging time? 10-per-car? 20? Now your battery eco-costs are nuts, batteries are already nasty even at 1-per-car.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @bgodot said:

    I'm sure there is a good reason electric cars don't have a standardized, user swappable battery pack systems.

    That way you could switch to a fully charged battery in seconds; and deal with them just like stores deal with refillable propane tanks.

    Um, WTF? The batteries weigh hundreds of pounds. You're not going to swap them in seconds..

    Actually, they are already doing it http://www.betterplace.com/



  • @rad131304 said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    @bgodot said:

    I'm sure there is a good reason electric cars don't have a standardized, user swappable battery pack systems.

    That way you could switch to a fully charged battery in seconds; and deal with them just like stores deal with refillable propane tanks.

    Um, WTF? The batteries weigh hundreds of pounds. You're not going to swap them in seconds..

    Actually, they are already doing it http://www.betterplace.com/

    Cool idea.  However, it's definitely not "user swappable" as was said previously.


  • @blakeyrat said:

    Pop Sci used to do articles about "battery changing gas stations", where the batteries were stored in a flat space beneath the car and a conveyor system removed the old battery and inserted a new one. Mechanically, it made sense, even assuming heavy batteries.
    It's not that you can't change the batteries.  The average person, by themself, without large expensive specialized equipment, can't change the batteries.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    Pop Sci used to do articles about "battery changing gas stations", where the batteries were stored in a flat space beneath the car and a conveyor system removed the old battery and inserted a new one. Mechanically, it made sense, even assuming heavy batteries.
    It's not that you can't change the batteries. The average person, by themself, without large expensive specialized equipment, can't change the batteries.

    Well, the point was that the cars and the "gas stations" were designed to work together using the same modular battery standards. But yes, it would make the batteries impossible to change at home without the "gas station" equipment. I mean think about it: the average person can't keep thousands of gallons of gasoline in an underground tank and pump it into their car at home without specialized equipment either, right?

    Like I said, Pop Sci used to cover this concept a ton back during the big electric car "push" of the 80s and early 90s, but now I can't find anything on it online. Nor can I remember the name of the auto-maker who was promoting this concept...

    Anyway it's a stupid idea.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Anyway it's a stupid idea.

    .. until some scottish engineer  in search of a whalesong can invent some dilithium-based energy storage...



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @rad131304 said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    @bgodot said:

    I'm sure there is a good reason electric cars don't have a standardized, user swappable battery pack systems.

    That way you could switch to a fully charged battery in seconds; and deal with them just like stores deal with refillable propane tanks.

    Um, WTF? The batteries weigh hundreds of pounds. You're not going to swap them in seconds..

    Actually, they are already doing it http://www.betterplace.com/

    Cool idea.  However, it's definitely not "user swappable" as was said previously.

    Granted you need more specialized equipment than for a propane tank, but how is this not user swappable? If I wanted to waste the money for the lift, swapping system, and extra battery I could certainly do it myself.



  • @rad131304 said:

    @Sutherlands said:

    @rad131304 said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    @bgodot said:

    I'm sure there is a good reason electric cars don't have a standardized, user swappable battery pack systems.

    That way you could switch to a fully charged battery in seconds; and deal with them just like stores deal with refillable propane tanks.

    Um, WTF? The batteries weigh hundreds of pounds. You're not going to swap them in seconds..

    Actually, they are already doing it http://www.betterplace.com/

    Cool idea.  However, it's definitely not "user swappable" as was said previously.

    Granted you need more specialized equipment than for a propane tank, but how is this not user swappable? If I wanted to waste the money for the lift, swapping system, and extra battery I could certainly do it myself.

    By that definition an iPhone battery is user-swappable because with enough equipment anyone can replace it.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @rad131304 said:
    @Sutherlands said:

    @rad131304 said:

    @morbiuswilters said:
    @bgodot said:

    I'm sure there is a good reason electric cars don't have a standardized, user swappable battery pack systems.

    That way you could switch to a fully charged battery in seconds; and deal with them just like stores deal with refillable propane tanks.

    Um, WTF? The batteries weigh hundreds of pounds. You're not going to swap them in seconds..

    Actually, they are already doing it http://www.betterplace.com/

    Cool idea.  However, it's definitely not "user swappable" as was said previously.

    Granted you need more specialized equipment than for a propane tank, but how is this not user swappable? If I wanted to waste the money for the lift, swapping system, and extra battery I could certainly do it myself.

    By that definition an iPhone battery is user-swappable because with enough equipment anyone can replace it.

    I don't agree with that; the difference to me is the design intent. The iPhone battery wasn't designed to be replaced except by an Apple technician (if the user does it, this voids the warranty), the car battery swap systems probably don't void the warranty, and it's expected that the swaps will happen often and at various locations. I do get what you're saying about the weight though - it's not like I just pop it out and pop a new one in with my bare hands. If the battery was redesigned into 10kg packaged units and you had 30 of them in the car that just plugged in like gigantic AA batteries would that change your mind? If you've got other concerns besides the weight I'd be interested to know what they are.



  • @rad131304 said:

    I don't agree with that; the difference to me is the design intent. The iPhone battery wasn't designed to be replaced except by an Apple technician (if the user does it, this voids the warranty), the car battery swap systems probably don't void the warranty, and it's expected that the swaps will happen often and at various locations. I do get what you're saying about the weight though - it's not like I just pop it out and pop a new one in with my bare hands. If the battery was redesigned into 10kg packaged units and you had 30 of them in the car that just plugged in like gigantic AA batteries would that change your mind? If you've got other concerns besides the weight I'd be interested to know what they are.
     

    I think the point was, very simply, that requiring expensive specialized equipment to complete the task nullifies the intended definition of "user swappable."  A power supply says "no user-serviceable parts inside."  It doesn't mean that someone without the requisite knowledge couldn't apply tweaks, fixes, etc.  It just means that for the average Joe, if there's a problem with your power supply there are no easily-tunable nerd knobs that might fix the problem.  Same here.  If you know what you're doing and have access to the tools needed, sure, you can swap out your iPhone battery.  You can swap out your electric car battery if you have the tools and parts, but most people won't, nor will they have easy access to said tools and parts. Ergo, neither can be classified as "user swappable."



  • @nonpartisan said:

    @rad131304 said:

    I don't agree with that; the difference to me is the design intent. The iPhone battery wasn't designed to be replaced except by an Apple technician (if the user does it, this voids the warranty), the car battery swap systems probably don't void the warranty, and it's expected that the swaps will happen often and at various locations. I do get what you're saying about the weight though - it's not like I just pop it out and pop a new one in with my bare hands. If the battery was redesigned into 10kg packaged units and you had 30 of them in the car that just plugged in like gigantic AA batteries would that change your mind? If you've got other concerns besides the weight I'd be interested to know what they are.
     

    I think the point was, very simply, that requiring expensive specialized equipment to complete the task nullifies the intended definition of "user swappable."  A power supply says "no user-serviceable parts inside."  It doesn't mean that someone without the requisite knowledge couldn't apply tweaks, fixes, etc.  It just means that for the average Joe, if there's a problem with your power supply there are no easily-tunable nerd knobs that might fix the problem.  Same here.  If you know what you're doing and have access to the tools needed, sure, you can swap out your iPhone battery.  You can swap out your electric car battery if you have the tools and parts, but most people won't, nor will they have easy access to said tools and parts. Ergo, neither can be classified as "user swappable."

    As I said, I don't agree that the specialized/expensive equipment nullifies user swappable in this case.



  • @rad131304 said:

    As I said, I don't agree that the specialized/expensive equipment nullifies user swappable in this case.

    Well, you are the only one.

    Name one thing that isn't "user-swappable" under your definition?



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @rad131304 said:

    As I said, I don't agree that the specialized/expensive equipment nullifies user swappable in this case.

    Well, you are the only one.

    Name one thing that isn't "user-swappable" under your definition?

     

    Hell, by that standard my kidney is user-swappable.

     



  • @rad131304 said:

    If the battery was redesigned into 10kg packaged units and you had 30 of them in the car that just plugged in like gigantic AA batteries would that change your mind? If you've got other concerns besides the weight I'd be interested to know what they are.
    I can think of other things, but even if weight is the only issue, that's enough.  It only takes one thng to make something not user-swappable.@rad131304 said:
    the difference to me is the design intent. The iPhone battery wasn't designed to be replaced except by an Apple technician (if the user does it, this voids the warranty)
    Warranty or manufacturer intent is irrelevant.  For example, many years ago, if you wanted to open up a computer (Radio Shack Color Computer, ect.) you would find that one or more screws that you needed to remove was covered with a sticker that said something along the line of "removing this sticker voids warrantly".  And pretty much everyone pulled the sticker off and threw it away so that they could make modifications that didn't require anything more specialized than a screw driver. Components were user-swappable even though the manufacturer didn't want them to be -- either because they wanted to sell expensive upgrades or because it never occurred to them that anyone would want to do that@rad131304 said:
    As I said, I don't agree that the
    specialized/expensive equipment nullifies user swappable in this
    case
    By your definition, everything in existence is user-swappble.  Not requiring specialized/expensive equipment is the exact, non-pedantic dickweed definition of user-swappable.



  • @rad131304 said:

    As I said, I don't agree that the specialized/expensive equipment nullifies user swappable in this case.
     

    Fortunately, you don't have to agree.



  • @nonpartisan said:

    Hell, by that standard my kidney is user-swappable.
     

    I don't need special equipment for that.



  • @dhromed said:

    @nonpartisan said:

    Hell, by that standard my kidney is user-swappable.
     

    I don't need special equipment for that.


    What do you do if you experience a redundancy failure?



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @rad131304 said:

    As I said, I don't agree that the specialized/expensive equipment nullifies user swappable in this case.

    Well, you are the only one.

    Name one thing that isn't "user-swappable" under your definition?

    I don't believe I've created a definition of "user swappable" yet; all I said was that I don't have put ownership ability of specialized equipment on my list for user swappable. There are a number of factors that, for me, contribute. Primarily I would say that it's ease of access to equipment to perform the task (note this does NOT mean that the user owns the equipment or could ever afford to purchase it) and the ability to perform without assistance from a specially trained technician (note this does NOT mean the equipment required might not be highly advanced nor that it can be done without the aid of equipment easily). I believe the better place system meets my conditions for user swappable, therefore, in this case, the cars built for the better place system that live in areas where they operate have user swappable batteries. Normally, I would agree that electriv car batteries are not user swappable. I'm saying that the specific example I gave was an exception, not the rule.

    @El_Heffe said:

    @rad131304 said:

    If the battery was redesigned into 10kg packaged units and you had 30 of them in the car that just plugged in like gigantic AA batteries would that change your mind? If you've got other concerns besides the weight I'd be interested to know what they are.
    I can think of other things, but even if weight is the only issue, that's enough. It only takes one thng to make something not user-swappable.

    Can you elaborate? I have dealings with people in the industry and I was trying to get some criticism to pass along.



  • @nonpartisan said:

    @dhromed said:

    @nonpartisan said:

    Hell, by that standard my kidney is user-swappable.
     

    I don't need special equipment for that.


    What do you do if you experience a redundancy failure?
     

    What, you mean both my hands get disabled somehow?

    Well, just read this strip, and fill in the blanks.

     



  • At the risk of straying back on topic, apparently you can also sell a car to consumer reports:

    @Reuters said:


    DETROIT (Reuters) -- A $100,000-plus Fisker Automotive luxury car died during Consumer Reports speed testing for reasons that are still unknown, leaving the struggling electric car startup with another blow to its image.

    ...

    "During the gentle run down the track, a light on the dashboard came on," he said.

    The speed test was completed despite the light on the control panel, but after it was parked, officials were unable to get the car restarted.



  •     In electronics, "bricking" means to make a gadget so that it can no longer be used for its intended

    reason. More than one Tesla Roadster owner has said recently that the vehicle can grow to be a "brick"

    if simply left unplugged. Tesla, however, states the owners are at fault, not the automaker.[url] http://www.cardealexpert.com/news-information/auto-news/tesla-bricked-roadsters/[/url]

     





  • @AthenA said:

    [Automaker], however, states the owners are at fault, not the automaker
    Well they would, wouldn't they? The impression I get is that if the batteries are allowed to go flat, no amount of plugging them in will allow the car to be used without replacing the (very expensive) batteries.



    It's like saying about normal cars running on petrol/diesel/gas "if you run out of fuel, you need to have the tank and all the fuels lines replaced before you can use the car again," instead of simply being able to put some more fuel in and off you go.



  • This could go one of several ways:

    • owner are at fault for not keeping the car topped up with charge, lest it becomes bricked
    • designer at fault for a device that consumes power whilst not in use, requiring the owner to monitor at more frequent intervals to prevent bricking
    • manufacturer at fault for a product that costs £40K to replace a discharged battery
    Either way, this bad publicity is going to harm their sales, and it looks like the manufacturer is trying their damned best to deflect responsibility during this damage limitation period, which isn't going to stand them in good light.



  • @Cassidy said:

    This could go one of several ways:

    • owner are at fault for not keeping the car topped up with charge, lest it becomes bricked
    • designer at fault for a device that consumes power whilst not in use, requiring the owner to monitor at more frequent intervals to prevent bricking
    • manufacturer at fault for a product that costs £40K to replace a discharged battery

    Sure, it's the owner's fault for not following the instructions on how to maintain their cars. The whole point here is that it's apparently incredibly easy to do. It's either shitty engineering on Tesla's part or an excellent demonstration of the limits of the technology, and why electric cars won't be useful for the foreseeable future.



  • Yeah.. that was kinda my point: laying the blame at number 1 to divert attention from 2 & 3 ain't a good course of action, and most people will see through that blame-shifting deception.

    I think Top Gear have already mentioned such an issue in their news section, and discussed the ease at which to brick a car can only be described as a design flaw - nothing should be so fragile as to demand such a high level of maintanence.



  • @PJH said:

    It's like saying about normal cars running on petrol/diesel/gas "if you run out of fuel, you need to have the tank and all the fuels lines replaced before you can use the car again," instead of simply being able to put some more fuel in and off you go.

    You actually can damage the fuel injectors by letting the car run dry, so don't do it.



  •  .. but it won't cost 40K to have them replaced.. will it?


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