Common man woe!



  • I am noticing that US dollar is coming down and down.

    This means very soon Indian Rupee will become equal to US Dollar. This is not good for either country. If this continue, then it will finish outsourcers. So we must also put our country in debt to stay below US dollar value. For every dollar that US borrows, India must borrow 10. This will make sure that we are getting good value for dollar.

    In the meanwhile, what is common man going to do? Common man can go and grow big farms. Huge farms that will feed population and keep food supply going.

    Another idea for common man is to keep buying gold as much as he can. Then when all currency is finished and local green-grocer will not allow you to buy bread for money, you can give him gold.

    I am trying to think of other ideas. once I have complete list, I can post on blog. Watch out for blog. It wil be called "BEPREPAREDANDREADY"



  • Nagesh, have you turned into a crazy anti-government extremist?

    If society collapses (and it won't), your best bet is to just not live in a city. Recommending things like "take up farming" only works if you own land to farm on, and can defend it/capture it... if you live in a 7th floor apartment, you don't and can't. I find it refreshing that you don't recommend stockpiling guns and ammo, which is what American paranoids do.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Nagesh, have you turned into a crazy anti-government extremist?

    If society collapses (and it won't), your best bet is to just not live in a city. Recommending things like "take up farming" only works if you own land to farm on, and can defend it/capture it... if you live in a 7th floor apartment, you don't and can't. I find it refreshing that you don't recommend stockpiling guns and ammo, which is what American paranoids do.

    More I read about Libya and Egypt, I feeling scared. Have not people existing all over world. If I don't have money, where I can get gun from, I have no idea. Also owning weapon, not easy in India, unless you are politician or bhai *(member of underworld).

    bonsai farms are answer to living in apartment.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    stockpiling guns and ammo, which is what American paranoids do.
    I'm not paranoid. But I do know where the nearest gun-shop is, just in case it ever gets to that stage. No point keeping guns, as long as you're first there when the looting starts.



  • @intertravel said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    stockpiling guns and ammo, which is what American paranoids do.
    I'm not paranoid. But I do know where the nearest gun-shop is, just in case it ever gets to that stage. No point keeping guns, as long as you're first there when the looting starts.

    You're taking this to extreme.



  • @Nagesh said:

    I am noticing that US dollar is coming down and down.

    This means very soon Indian Rupee will become equal to US Dollar. This is not good for either country. If this continue, then it will finish outsourcers. So we must also put our country in debt to stay below US dollar value. For every dollar that US borrows, India must borrow 10. This will make sure that we are getting good value for dollar.

    In the meanwhile, what is common man going to do? Common man can go and grow big farms. Huge farms that will feed population and keep food supply going.

    Another idea for common man is to keep buying gold as much as he can. Then when all currency is finished and local green-grocer will not allow you to buy bread for money, you can give him gold.

    I am trying to think of other ideas. once I have complete list, I can post on blog. Watch out for blog. It wil be called "BEPREPAREDANDREADY"

    You're being inflexible ... empires rise and fall all the time - Egyptian, Roman, Sumerian, and Chinese are pretty good examples. Everything will be fine*. The only thing that ever changes is the oppressor; the rules rarely chage; if they do, it's almost never the rules of consequence.



  • @rad131304 said:

    You're being inflexible ... empires rise and fall all the time - Egyptian, Roman, Sumerian, and Chinese are pretty good examples. Everything will be fine*. The only thing that ever changes is the oppressor; the rules rarely chage; if they do, it's almost never the rules of consequence.

    OMG I'm also 15 and just read '1984' and/or 'Atlas Shrugged!' Squeeee! We should make a club!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @rad131304 said:
    You're being inflexible ... empires rise and fall all the time - Egyptian, Roman, Sumerian, and Chinese are pretty good examples. Everything will be fine*. The only thing that ever changes is the oppressor; the rules rarely chage; if they do, it's almost never the rules of consequence.
    OMG I'm also 15 and just read '1984' and/or 'Atlas Shrugged!' Squeeee! We should make a club!

    No.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @rad131304 said:
    You're being inflexible ... empires rise and fall all the time - Egyptian, Roman, Sumerian, and Chinese are pretty good examples. Everything will be fine*. The only thing that ever changes is the oppressor; the rules rarely chage; if they do, it's almost never the rules of consequence.

    OMG I'm also 15 and just read '1984' and/or 'Atlas Shrugged!' Squeeee! We should make a club!

     

    Like i'm going to be paying valve money for that atlas shrugged animation!! pfff.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @rad131304 said:
    You're being inflexible ... empires rise and fall all the time - Egyptian, Roman, Sumerian, and Chinese are pretty good examples. Everything will be fine*. The only thing that ever changes is the oppressor; the rules rarely chage; if they do, it's almost never the rules of consequence.
    OMG I'm also 15 and just read '1984' and/or 'Atlas Shrugged!' Squeeee! We should make a club!

    Seems like heavy and somewhat depressing reading for a youngling. Animal Farm was funny.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @rad131304 said:
    You're being inflexible ... empires rise and fall all the time - Egyptian, Roman, Sumerian, and Chinese are pretty good examples. Everything will be fine*. The only thing that ever changes is the oppressor; the rules rarely chage; if they do, it's almost never the rules of consequence.

    OMG I'm also 15 and just read '1984' and/or 'Atlas Shrugged!' Squeeee! We should make a club!

    But how is he wrong? Empires do rise and fall all the time. Ours won't be the final everlasting empire, ours won't be the culture that finally achieves immortality. Eventually, powers will shift, wars will be sparked, and new powers will arise, just like they have so many times in the past. These transitions are typically a bloodbath, but such is the determination of the powerful to stay in power. Meanwhile, for the rest of us, regression to old-timey agrarianism isn't really a viable option, and if you think your guns will protect you against professional armies led by frightened generals, then I've got a desktop search program to sell you. But otherwise, in such an event, if you keep your head on your shoulders and your homes in the mountains, your offspring might survive and live a healthy and productive life like any modern European.



  • @Xyro said:

    But how is he wrong?

    Among other reasons, he's panicking over something that takes centuries to happen.

    @Xyro said:

    Empires do rise and fall all the time. Ours won't be the final everlasting empire, ours won't be the culture that finally achieves immortality.

    1. Ours (assuming you're talking about the American way of life, but maybe you're not) isn't an empire at all

    2) You can't prove or disprove immortality until after the person is dead

    @Xyro said:

    Eventually, powers will shift, wars will be sparked, and new powers will arise, just like they have so many times in the past. These transitions are typically a bloodbath, but such is the determination of the powerful to stay in power.

    Yeah, just like eventually you'll die from being gored to death by a warthog or die from consumption. Because God knows humanity never advances at all.

    @Xyro said:

    But otherwise, in such an event, if you keep your head on your shoulders and your homes in the mountains, your offspring might survive and live a healthy and productive life like any modern European.

    Yeah, all those pretentious art house movies and homeopathy and disgusting cheeses and consuming liters of wine daily will keep you happy and healthy.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Xyro said:
    But how is he wrong?

    Among other reasons, he's panicking over something that takes centuries to happen.


    Centuries? How many European empires have risen and fell between, say, 1700-1800? And how many more between 1800-1900? Consider Russia between 1900-2000, to say nothing of the other players in the World Wars. Power can shift very rapidly. So what other reasons do you have?



  • @Xyro said:

    Centuries? How many European empires have risen and fell between, say, 1700-1800?

    Both risen and fell? Zero, most likely. How are you defining "empire" here? "Some dude hangs on to his crown longer than 2 weeks"?

    @Xyro said:

    Consider Russia between 1900-2000,

    Ok, one, given those parameters.

    @Xyro said:

    So what other reasons do you have?

    Regardless of how you define "empire" or how quickly they rise or fall, I really don't give a shit and neither should you. How's that?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Regardless of how you define "empire" or how quickly they rise or fall, I really don't give a shit and neither should you. How's that?

    That's fair enough, although it makes me wonder why you'd bother to post and criticize if you don't care.

    It doesn't matter how you define "empire" anyway, nor "rise" and "fall, as really it's not exclusive to empires. When the ranks of the powerful start to change, trouble is brewing. People tend not to relinquish power without a fight. Whether or not this is a literal fight of martial force is merely a matter of scale, but either way someone is going to get hurt. Is your business model failing? Sue! Has an small upstart outmatched your brand? Hostile takeover and/or sue! Is another country blocking your exports with high tariffs? Twist their arm and tariff them back! Is your economy less of a force to be reckoned with and more a force to be tolerated? This too can be shaken up. Overseas colony demanding independence? omg. etc, etc.



  • @Xyro said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    Regardless of how you define "empire" or how quickly they rise or fall, I really don't give a shit and neither should you. How's that?

    That's fair enough, although it makes me wonder why you'd bother to post and criticize if you don't care.

    I care about people giving me that old nihilistic "oh we're all going to die the government keeps us as slaves and nothing matters at all" bullshit. Because it's bullshit, and if you really feel that way please just seppuku right now and leave the rest of us alone. What I don't care about are the nitty-gritty details.

    @Xyro said:

    It doesn't matter how you define "empire" anyway, nor "rise" and "fall, as really it's not exclusive to empires. When the ranks of the powerful start to change, trouble is brewing. People tend not to relinquish power without a fight. Whether or not this is a literal fight of martial force is merely a matter of scale, but either way someone is going to get hurt. Is your business model failing? Sue! Has an small upstart outmatched your brand? Hostile takeover and/or sue! Is another country blocking your exports with high tariffs? Twist their arm and tariff them back! Is your economy less of a force to be reckoned with and more a force to be tolerated? This too can be shaken up. Overseas colony demanding independence? omg. etc, etc.

    Then again, lately, the fight has been economic (Cold War), or democratic (separation of Quebec... failed by 1% of the vote, no violence). In fact, right now, the only places of the world that are using violence to solve conflicts are the places that use violence to solve parking disputes. And despite that, their quality of life is still rising every single day and eventually they'll figure it the fuck out like the rest of us have.

    So smile.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I care about people giving me that old nihilistic "oh we're all going to die the government keeps us as slaves and nothing matters at all" bullshit. Because it's bullshit, and if you really feel that way please just seppuku right now and leave the rest of us alone. What I don't care about are the nitty-gritty details.

    ... was that what we were talking about?
    @blakeyrat said:
    Then again, lately

    wat



  • @Nagesh said:

    For every dollar that US borrows, India must borrow 10. This will make sure that we are getting good value for dollar.

    I'll believe in a massive regression to an agrarian lifestyle before anyone borrowing at the scale of the US. And pretty soon, the US won't be able to do that, either.



  • The funny thing is a monetary "collapse" only causes chaos because of the same reason that money works in the first place: people believe a collapse causes chaos, so they act accordingly and actually cause the chaos.

    It's a funny thing, money.  At the end of any given day, assuming no natural disasters or the like, a society has the same physical capacity to perform work that it had the day before. I'm amused by the fact that, despite this essentially constant capability, a day-to-day change in some numbers stored in various ledger books (physical or electronic; doesn't matter) prompts people to stop performing tasks.

    At its core, currency is just a kind of anonymized commitment to perform tasks or trade goods (either now, or in the future).  For some reason people think that if you don't have money you can't perform tasks or trade goods, which is really quite baffling.

    The "devaluing" of a currency, I think, therefore isn't so much related to the present ability to trade or perform tasks. Devaluation occurs when people think that the commitment to perform in the future is not going to be met, so they want more in the present. This is actually a more tricky situation, because it's very difficult to build trust that has been eroded.

    Also, gold isn't really a solution; it is just trading one fiat currency for another.  Gold only works as long as people are willing to accept it in exchange for goods and services, and given the irrationality of people I don't think that's a viable long-term strategy.  (Put another way: gold is only a safe haven as long as people think it is one.  This is not really a situation which instills one with confidence.)



  • @too_many_usernames said:

    It's a funny thing, money.  At the end of any given day, assuming no natural disasters or the like, a society has the same physical capacity to perform work that it had the day before. I'm amused by the fact that, despite this essentially constant capability, a day-to-day change in some numbers stored in various ledger books (physical or electronic; doesn't matter) prompts people to stop performing tasks.

    It is better than the old way of watching animal entrails for omens



  • @too_many_usernames said:

    Also, gold isn't really a solution; it is just trading one fiat currency for another.  Gold only works as long as people are willing to accept it in exchange for goods and services, and given the irrationality of people I don't think that's a viable long-term strategy.  (Put another way: gold is only a safe haven as long as people think it is one.  This is not really a situation which instills one with confidence.)

    Gold comment is right on money.

    One great ruler name by Mohamed Bin Tughlaq realize this long time ago and issue copper coins. Due to issue of copper coin, every merchant was making coins at home. He make invention of what is called quasi-money. Now he also create inflation as side product of this venture.



  • @Nagesh said:

    I am noticing that US dollar is coming down and down.

    This means very soon Indian Rupee will become equal to US Dollar. This is not good for either country. If this continue, then it will finish outsourcers. So we must also put our country in debt to stay below US dollar value. For every dollar that US borrows, India must borrow 10. This will make sure that we are getting good value for dollar.

     

    I like the tacit admission that the quality of code outsourced to India is so shitty that it wouldn't be worth it for anyone to hire you if they had to pay something equivalent to American salaries.


  • @Bumble Bee Tuna said:

    @Nagesh said:

    I am noticing that US dollar is coming down and down.

    This means very soon Indian Rupee will become equal to US Dollar. This is not good for either country. If this continue, then it will finish outsourcers. So we must also put our country in debt to stay below US dollar value. For every dollar that US borrows, India must borrow 10. This will make sure that we are getting good value for dollar.

     

    I like the tacit admission that the quality of code outsourced to India is so shitty that it wouldn't be worth it for anyone to hire you if they had to pay something equivalent to American salaries.

    Don't be an asshole. There's no shortage of shitty code being written here in the US-- go back and read the main page archives if you don't believe me! Or log in to an Oracle timekeeping system, or PeopleSoft, or SAP, or Siemens anything.

    Shitty code is a problem for the entire industry. The reason companies get shitty code from India is that they're hiring bottom-of-the-barrel development shops from India (the whole point of outsourcing to India is to make it cheap; good coders cost). Guess what? If you pay bottom-of-the-barrel development shops here in the States, you get shitty code back, too! (And, hell, if you pay $220/hour IBM consultants, there's a 50/50 chance you'll get shitty code.)

    This is an industry-wide problem. Don't pretend it only exists in India.



  •  

    Don't be an asshole.

     posted by blakeyrat

     



  • @Bumble Bee Tuna said:

     

    Don't be an asshole.

     posted by blakeyrat

     

    No irony there. You're being such an asshole that even Blakey gets to call you on it.



  • @intertravel said:

    @Bumble Bee Tuna said:

     

    Don't be an asshole.

     posted by blakeyrat

     

    No irony there. You're being such an asshole that even Blakey gets to call you on it.

    To be fair, his summary was not completely without merit (note that Bumble Bee Tuna didn't say anything about the shittiness of US outsourcers). The currency / standard of living differences between the US and India mean that the price of shittiness / $ spread is pretty wide right now between US and Indian outsourcers. But as the dollar devalues, you can get the same (or closer, anyways) amount of shittiness for the same number of dollars from a more convenient timezone.

    Of course, that doesn't mean that blakeyrat can't make a tangential reply to me, too, along with the roundabout accusations of racism or xenophobia or whatever.



  • @boomzilla said:

    To be fair, his summary was not completely without merit
    That's true, if by 'not completely without merit' you mean it was racist nonsense. It doesn't make sense in any way. Shittiness doesn't need to come into things. The point of outsourcing to India is not to get some shitty company to do things on the cheap, but to get a company just as good as those in whatever country you come from, but with lower costs. If India's economy strengthens to the stage that they no longer have a price advantage, the good companies will find it a lot harder to get business. That said, there'll presumably be more than enough internal demand by then to keep them very busy. But still.



  • @intertravel said:

    @boomzilla said:
    To be fair, his summary was not completely without merit
    That's true, if by 'not completely without merit' you mean it was racist nonsense. It doesn't make sense in any way. Shittiness doesn't need to come into things. The point of outsourcing to India is not to get some shitty company to do things on the cheap, but to get a company just as good as those in whatever country you come from, but with lower costs. If India's economy strengthens to the stage that they no longer have a price advantage, the good companies will find it a lot harder to get business. That said, there'll presumably be more than enough internal demand by then to keep them very busy. But still.

    Um, no, I didn't mean it was racist nonsense. Maybe he did mean it that way, but that's less clear to me than it is to you. Maybe nationalistic or jingoistic or mercantilistic or something, but that's not the same as racist.

    My use of shittiness was really in response to blakeyrat's explanation about the domestic suppliers of shittiness available in the US. If that's a problem, substitute the word "quality," and you basically get the same thing. Otherwise, I think we agree.



  • @Bumble Bee Tuna said:

    @Nagesh said:

    I am noticing that US dollar is coming down and down.

    This means very soon Indian Rupee will become equal to US Dollar. This is not good for either country. If this continue, then it will finish outsourcers. So we must also put our country in debt to stay below US dollar value. For every dollar that US borrows, India must borrow 10. This will make sure that we are getting good value for dollar.

     

    I like the tacit admission that the quality of code outsourced to India is so shitty that it wouldn't be worth it for anyone to hire you if they had to pay something equivalent to American salaries.

    Mr Tuna, If US Dollar is faling at that rate, why will I take American salary?

    Your logic is having great design failere.

    Love, Nagesh



  •  If you're mean to a fictional character, does that still count as being an asshole?



  • @Bumble Bee Tuna said:

     If you're mean to a fictional character, does that still count as being an asshole?

    Does not compute!!!!!!



  • @Nagesh said:

    @Bumble Bee Tuna said:

     If you're mean to a fictional character, does that still count as being an asshole?

    Does not compute!!!!!!

     

     Just like the code you write!


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