Why is there a TV icon in Microsoft Word?
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@bstorer said:
@Auction_God said:
Most of those are a massive stretch to call "common".@dhromed said:
@Zylon said:
Many common operations take more clicks to accomplish with the Ribbon than with the old interface. Ribbon objectively fails.
List these common operations, please.
I'll give you some examples of them:
1) Set or edit Document properties.
2) Turn on or off automatic calculation
3) Protect / unprotect a range
4) Find out the version and Service pack installed
5) List or Edit the add-ins.
6) Autofit to row height
Not only that, but most are actually easier using the Ribbon, or don't require it at all.
1) Office button -> Prepare (hover) -> Properties (2 clicks)
2) Formulas tab -> Calculation Options -> (select one)
3) Home tab -> Format -> Protect Sheet / Lock Cell
4) Office button -> Excel options -> Resources -> About (this one takes longer, but FFS, nobody uses this "feature" on a regular basis)
5) Office button -> Excel options -> Add-Ins (and again, rarely used feature, most people will find what they need on the Add-Ins tab)
6) Just double-click the bottom of the row header, doofus. Or if you *must* use the toolbar, it's right on the Home tab -> Format -> AutoFit Row Height.
Pretty much all of these things take fewer clicks and *far* less precise/coordinated mouse movements than navigating a menu structure. They take one more click than a standard toolbar button, but none of these functions were on the standard toolbar in Excel 2003, so you'd have to customize anyway (and you can still do that in 2007). If you use obscure functions THAT frequently, then that's what the Quick Access toolbar is for - those 5 or 10 features that you use all the time but that nobody else cares about.
So again, I repeat, most of the Ribbon-hate seems to emanate from people who are just too lazy to learn how to use it.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@ender said:
OOo 3.1.1 takes 5 seconds to load, which while it is 3 seconds slower than Excel 2007, it's still fast enough for me. It's not my fault if you're trying to run OOo on a machine from last millennium. Also, unlike Office 2007, OOo at least pretends it's following my Windows colour scheme.
It takes about 10 seconds to load for me, which is too fucking slow for a modern piece of software. Abiword loads instantly. It's a fairly good machine (for a laptop): 2.2Ghz Core 2 duo, 4GB RAM.
Agreed; I switched away from OOo a couple years ago in favor of Abiword and Gnumeric. The only feature I could possibly miss is the formatting copy-paste tool, but in word processing I use styles anyway and Gnumeric provides the "paste special" function which can be used to achieve the same functionality with a few more cllicks (and I don't need it often enough for that to matter).
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@Aaron said:
Um - isn't that the same as 'being too lazy to learn how not to use the menus'?[...], but most are actually easier using the Ribbon, or don't require it at all.
<snip>
So again, I repeat, most of the Ribbon-hate seems to emanate from people who are just too lazy to learn how to use it.
Like complaining how copying using Ribbon makes it difficult (does it? I dunno, never used it on my own computers) when it still takes at least two clicks on the menu bar (maybe one if you have a toolbar) when Ctrl-C works with both?
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@Aaron said:
Not only that, but most are actually easier using the Ribbon, or don't require it at all.
1) Office button -> Prepare (hover) -> Properties (2 clicks)
2) Formulas tab -> Calculation Options -> (select one)
3) Home tab -> Format -> Protect Sheet / Lock Cell
4) Office button -> Excel options -> Resources -> About (this one takes longer, but FFS, nobody uses this "feature" on a regular basis)
5) Office button -> Excel options -> Add-Ins (and again, rarely used feature, most people will find what they need on the Add-Ins tab)
6) Just double-click the bottom of the row header, doofus. Or if you *must* use the toolbar, it's right on the Home tab -> Format -> AutoFit Row Height.
Pretty much all of these things take fewer clicks and *far* less precise/coordinated mouse movements than navigating a menu structure. They take one more click than a standard toolbar button, but none of these functions were on the standard toolbar in Excel 2003, so you'd have to customize anyway (and you can still do that in 2007). If you use obscure functions THAT frequently, then that's what the Quick Access toolbar is for - those 5 or 10 features that you use all the time but that nobody else cares about.
So again, I repeat, most of the Ribbon-hate seems to emanate from people who are just too lazy to learn how to use it.
Nice try...
1) See how many clicks away that is...In 2003 it was File/Properties.
2) OK, but it is also: Office button -> Excel options -> Formulas -> <Pick One> -> OK
3) Nice place to hide that option
4/5) See, takes a long time to get there.
6) Buzzzt. Clicking on the bottom of the row does one friggin' row at a time. Then there is the option hidden in the "Format" area, who'd thunk it would be in there?
Oh, and of course the Excel help is useless for finding these things.
Now you're trying to lump me into a "Ribbon-hate" crowd. Very sad. And calling me lazy...very, very sad. MS could have done better (say by allowing the creation of your own ribbons). I look forward to the next Office version which will probably juggle everything around again. So then I can be supporting 3 versions of Excel (we have some users who refuse to switch to 2007). The "upgrade" refusal is not necessarily about the ribbon, it is about the abomination that they call charts in 2007. It takes over 15 minutes to graph a simple X/Y plot with a couple thousand points in 2007. Thankfully this was partially addressed in 2007 SP2, so now it is only annoyingly slow rather than "slit-your-wrists" slow. Unfortunately, our IT group refuses to roll out SP2 -apparently it scambles Outlook's PST files...
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@Auction_God said:
@Aaron said:
6) Just double-click the bottom of the row header, doofus. Or if you *must* use the toolbar, it's right on the Home tab -> Format -> AutoFit Row Height.
Nice try...
6) Buzzzt. Clicking on the bottom of the row does one friggin' row at a time. Then there is the option hidden in the "Format" area, who'd thunk it would be in there?
You mean highlighting a series of rows in excel, and double-clicking any 'border' between the highlighted rows doesn't autofit row-height? (Likewise with columns and auto-width)
If that's the case then if anything's broken in the Ribbon version of excel, it's not including the ribbon, it's removing part of the UI.
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@PJH said:
Oh, no, that still works just fine in 2007. Auction_God is just flailing about.@Auction_God said:
@Aaron said:
6) Just double-click the bottom of the row header, doofus. Or if you *must* use the toolbar, it's right on the Home tab -> Format -> AutoFit Row Height.
Nice try...
6) Buzzzt. Clicking on the bottom of the row does one friggin' row at a time. Then there is the option hidden in the "Format" area, who'd thunk it would be in there?
You mean highlighting a series of rows in excel, and double-clicking any 'border' between the highlighted rows doesn't autofit row-height? (Likewise with columns and auto-width)
If that's the case then if anything's broken in the Ribbon version of excel, it's not including the ribbon, it's removing part of the UI.
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@Auction_God said:
@Aaron said:
"hey you showed me how few clicks it was, but I used this 13 click method that proves my point"2) Formulas tab -> Calculation Options -> (select one)
2) OK, but it is also: Office button -> Excel options -> Formulas -> <Pick One> -> OKAlso, lern2selective quote. You make it a lot of work for the reader to jump up and down do figure out which one you're talking about. Aaron should have done the same. If you employed selective quote and responded to each point individually, it would be simple to figure out which point you're refuting.
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@Auction_God said:
@Aaron said:
Not only that, but most are actually easier using the Ribbon, or don't require it at all.
1) Office button -> Prepare (hover) -> Properties (2 clicks)
2) Formulas tab -> Calculation Options -> (select one)
3) Home tab -> Format -> Protect Sheet / Lock Cell
4) Office button -> Excel options -> Resources -> About (this one takes longer, but FFS, nobody uses this "feature" on a regular basis)
5) Office button -> Excel options -> Add-Ins (and again, rarely used feature, most people will find what they need on the Add-Ins tab)
6) Just double-click the bottom of the row header, doofus. Or if you *must* use the toolbar, it's right on the Home tab -> Format -> AutoFit Row Height.
Pretty much all of these things take fewer clicks and *far* less precise/coordinated mouse movements than navigating a menu structure. They take one more click than a standard toolbar button, but none of these functions were on the standard toolbar in Excel 2003, so you'd have to customize anyway (and you can still do that in 2007). If you use obscure functions THAT frequently, then that's what the Quick Access toolbar is for - those 5 or 10 features that you use all the time but that nobody else cares about.
So again, I repeat, most of the Ribbon-hate seems to emanate from people who are just too lazy to learn how to use it.
Nice try...
1) See how many clicks away that is...In 2003 it was File/Properties.
2) OK, but it is also: Office button -> Excel options -> Formulas -> <Pick One> -> OK
3) Nice place to hide that option
4/5) See, takes a long time to get there.
6) Buzzzt. Clicking on the bottom of the row does one friggin' row at a time. Then there is the option hidden in the "Format" area, who'd thunk it would be in there?
Auction God, that's pretty weak. If that's the best you got, I'm going to have to cheer for the ribbon on this one. @Auction_God said:
MS could have done better (say by allowing the creation of your own ribbons). I look forward to the next Office version which will probably juggle everything around again. So then I can be supporting 3 versions of Excel (we have some users who refuse to switch to 2007).
You complain about supporting too many versions (read: configurations) of Excel, but then you think everybody shoud be able to completely customize the ribbon? Sounds like hypocrisy for me.
You know, older versions of Office treated the menu bar as a toolbar. I don't know why they did, they just did. I worked support at the time and it was a NIGHTMARE. People would accidentally drag it into a toolbar window, people would accidentally drag it to the bottom of the screen, people would accidentally manage to hide it. Customability is a *bad thing* when you're supporting software. It just means more things to break, and less effective testing gets done. Microsoft's learned this lesson, Apple's long-since learned it, now you should start figuring it out as well. Your customers will love you.
@Auction_God said:
The "upgrade" refusal is not necessarily about the ribbon, it is about the abomination that they call charts in 2007. It takes over 15 minutes to graph a simple X/Y plot with a couple thousand points in 2007.
I could go into detail, but I'll just say you're either a bald-faced liar, or your company has the worst IT department in history.
@Auction_God said:
Thankfully this was partially addressed in 2007 SP2, so now it is only annoyingly slow rather than "slit-your-wrists" slow. Unfortunately, our IT group refuses to roll out SP2 -apparently it scambles Outlook's PST files...
Ah, so maybe it's the latter.
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@blakeyrat said:
Auction God, that's pretty weak. If that's the best you got, I'm going to have to cheer for the ribbon on this one.
@blakeyrat said:
Sounds like hypocrisy for me.
@blakeyrat said:
I could go into detail, but I'll just say you're either a bald-faced liar, or your company has the worst IT department in history.
@blakeyrat said:
Ah, so maybe it's the latter.
Oh baby, it is on!! It's been awhile since we had a good old-fashioned flamewar.
/me gets the popcorn
Edit: Holy shit, Community Server auto-converts "/me" into IRC-style actions. WTF.
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@PJH said:
Um - isn't that the same as 'being too lazy to learn how not to use the menus'?
As far as I know, Microsoft didn't change any of the keyboard shortcuts, so if we're going to talk about said "power users" then the 2003 (toolbar) vs. 2007 (ribbon) debate is effectively moot. What's really at stake here is the usability for new users, or experienced users looking for less-frequently-used functions that they don't know the shortcuts for (or don't/can't have shortcuts).
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@Auction_God said:
Nice try...
1) See how many clicks away that is...In 2003 it was File/Properties.
2) OK, but it is also: Office button -> Excel options -> Formulas -> <Pick One> -> OK
3) Nice place to hide that option
4/5) See, takes a long time to get there.
6) Buzzzt. Clicking on the bottom of the row does one friggin' row at a time. Then there is the option hidden in the "Format" area, who'd thunk it would be in there?
OK, so for #1, you have... 2 clicks vs. 2 clicks. Wow, I'm blown away. For #2, congratulations, you found a more complicated way of performing a simple task, you want a freakin' medal?
All of the others (except for the "about" box which no one cares about) are either identical in usability or better in Excel 2007. The majority of your "rebuttal" consists of, as I pointed out earlier, you being too dumb/lazy to actually find where the actions were "hidden". As if you intuitively knew in Excel 2003 which toolbar they were on and which itty-bitty icon was the right one.
Thank you for helping to confirm that Ribbon-haters are just bitching out of militant ignorance and spite.
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@Aaron said:
Thank you for helping to confirm that Ribbon-haters are just bitching out of militant ignorance and spite.
Hey, jackass. You still haven't tried to handwave away what a colossal nuisance the automatic tab-switching is. The Home tab contains all the base functionality of the Office apps, yet is continually switching away from it in a ham-fisted attempt to provide context-sensitive functionality. This simply wasn't an issue in the older versions of Office, since the toolbars stayed put no matter what you were doing.
Thus, the ribbon is objectively BAD interface design, because it defeats muscle memory.
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@Zylon said:
@Aaron said:
Thank you for helping to confirm that Ribbon-haters are just bitching out of militant ignorance and spite.
Hey, jackass. You still haven't tried to handwave away what a colossal nuisance the automatic tab-switching is. The Home tab contains all the base functionality of the Office apps, yet is continually switching away from it in a ham-fisted attempt to provide context-sensitive functionality. This simply wasn't an issue in the older versions of Office, since the toolbars stayed put no matter what you were doing.
Thus, the ribbon is objectively BAD interface design, because it defeats muscle memory.
I like the tab switching. I mean how often do I want tomake my picture bold, or change the font size on my clip-art? Anyways, after you change the tab back to home 1 time on a picture or drawing it stops automatically changing.
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@Zylon said:
Thus, the ribbon is objectively BAD interface design, because it defeats muscle memory.
The name Zylon is hard for me to pronounce.
Thus, the name Zylon is objectively BAD namming, because it defeats easy verbal identification.
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@Zylon said:
Hey, jackass. You still haven't tried to handwave away what a colossal nuisance the automatic tab-switching is. The Home tab contains all the base functionality of the Office apps, yet is continually switching away from it in a ham-fisted attempt to provide context-sensitive functionality. This simply wasn't an issue in the older versions of Office, since the toolbars stayed put no matter what you were doing.
I don't think that the vast majority of people who have been laid within the past 12 years consider this to be an "issue" in the current version of office. 9 times out of 10, the Home tab is the one showing when you need it, and in the rare cases when it isn't, you click on it once, and it stays selected until you change your context again. This is frustrating only to those who consider the phrase "belligerent, anal-retentive and possibly obsessive-compulsive control freak" to be the highest of compliments.
And if you really, desperately need the Home tab to stay where it is, then you can always just Ctrl+Click it to lock it there. But I'm sure you already knew that, right?
...objectively...
I do not think that means what you think it means.
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I think I know what's going here. Everyone complaining about the ribbon was probably tech-savvy enough to have opted out of Microsoft's tracking program, right?
Guess how Microsoft conducts their usability testing.
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@Aaron said:
@Zylon said:
Hey, jackass. You still haven't tried to handwave away what a colossal nuisance the automatic tab-switching is. The Home tab contains all the base functionality of the Office apps, yet is continually switching away from it in a ham-fisted attempt to provide context-sensitive functionality. This simply wasn't an issue in the older versions of Office, since the toolbars stayed put no matter what you were doing.
I don't think that the vast majority of people who have been laid within the past 12 years consider this to be an "issue" in the current version of office. 9 times out of 10, the Home tab is the one showing when you need it, and in the rare cases when it isn't, you click on it once, and it stays selected until you change your context again. This is frustrating only to those who consider the phrase "belligerent, anal-retentive and possibly obsessive-compulsive control freak" to be the highest of compliments.
My problem is more the other way - I use the Data tab fairly intensively, and the application repeatedly annoys me by shifting to the Home tab when I don't need it to. Like I said in my earlier post, the context switching does a reasonable job, but for me it needs to do a better one if it is not to be more irritating than it is worth. It's essentially screwing with my mental model of the application state with the intention of making it easier for me to select the next command I need. If it worked all the time I doubt I'd notice it. But it gets it wrong often enough to be annoying, because I have to check what tab is currently showing to work out whether I need to switch tabs, whereas if it just stayed where I put it I would already know. A few seconds of icon-hunting followed by the realisation that I'm on the wrong tab (and icon-hunting again) doesn't sound like much, but I think it's the fact that the application state doesn't correspond to my mental model that has the jarring effect.
And if you really, desperately need the Home tab to stay where it is, then you can always just Ctrl+Click it to lock it there. But I'm sure you already knew that, right?
I didn't know it. I can't see it in any of the help or training topics on the ribbon (though - as with many commands on the ribbon itself - it's possible that the information I'm looking for has merely been put somewhere that I would not think to look for it), so I would have to suppose that this is not well-known. In any event, I don't want only to work on one tab so I'm not sure that this would be useful. Though I may try to train myself to switch tabs with Ctrl+Click to see if having the tabs stay with the ones I manually select is easier for the way I work than letting the context switching do its thing. The real point, though, is that on the previous version, once I modified the toolbars to suit my usage patterns, essentially everything I needed was available on a visible toolbar all the time, so there was no need for any of this mental juggling. If I needed a command it was always there and always in the same place. It's hard to beat that for efficiency.
I think the take-home lesson on this is that different people work in different ways, and while the new UI may be better for some (indeed, hopefully most) users, there are others for whom it is worse. I don't think it's helpful for each camp to insult the other. Don't assume that our problems are not real simply because you don't share them. And those of us who do have problems with it need to recognise that many others don't. More than anything else it probably just means that we use the application for different things.
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@Scarlet Manuka said:
The real point, though, is that on the previous version, once I modified the toolbars to suit my usage patterns, essentially everything I needed was available on a visible toolbar all the time, so there was no need for any of this mental juggling. If I needed a command it was always there and always in the same place. It's hard to beat that for efficiency.
The quick access toolbar serves this exact purpose.
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@tster said:
@Scarlet Manuka said:
The real point, though, is that on the previous version, once I modified the toolbars to suit my usage patterns, essentially everything I needed was available on a visible toolbar all the time, so there was no need for any of this mental juggling. If I needed a command it was always there and always in the same place. It's hard to beat that for efficiency.
The quick access toolbar serves this exact purpose.If you think the quick access ribbon serves this purpose, you haven't used Excel enough. Most commands you add have the same "default" graphic ( a green hemisphere). there is no way that I've been able to find to add a text description to each. And changing the default graphic involves some very serious registry hacking.
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@Auction_God said:
If you think the quick access ribbon serves this purpose, you haven't used Excel enough. Most commands you add have the same "default" graphic ( a green hemisphere). there is no way that I've been able to find to add a text description to each. And changing the default graphic involves some very serious registry hacking.
Honestly, looking through the settings, most of the commands have icons. Are there any commands which did have icons in 2003 which could be added to the toolbars, but which don't have icons now?
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@tster said:
The quick access toolbar serves this exact purpose.
You really, genuinely, aren't that bright, are you?
The quick access bar is a pathetic shadow of the full-fledged custom toolbars of Office versions past. It's a half-assed sop to the limitations of the Ribbon, most likely added by MS as quick hack when they were far too committed to the Ribbon to do the right thing and scrap it.
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@Zylon said:
The quick access bar is a pathetic shadow of the full-fledged custom toolbars of Office versions past. It's a half-assed sop to the limitations of the Ribbon, most likely added by MS as quick hack when they were far too committed to the Ribbon to do the right thing and scrap it.
99% of people never, ever customize toolbars. (Yes, I made up the number, Microsoft could tell you the exact number.) I hate to break this to you, but your usage of Office? IS NOT TYPICAL. Therefore, Microsoft is not wasting development resources catering to your every whim. At this point, you have two choices: 1) learn to use Office the way most people do, or 2) switch to another product.
There might be an option 3) convince Microsoft that they're losing revenue because of the ribbon. But frankly, I doubt you could pull that one off, since there's no reason to believe that Office 2007 is unsuccessful.
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@blakeyrat said:
99% of people never, ever customize toolbars.
99% of people never use Word for anything more complex than what WordPad can provide, so I'm not entirely clear on what point you think you're making.
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@Zylon said:
@blakeyrat said:
99% of people never, ever customize toolbars.
99% of people never use Word for anything more complex than what WordPad can provide, so I'm not entirely clear on what point you think you're making.
99% of your claim is bullshit.
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@tster said:
@Zylon said:
@blakeyrat said:
99% of people never, ever customize toolbars.
99% of people never use Word for anything more complex than what WordPad can provide, so I'm not entirely clear on what point you think you're making.
99% of your claim is bullshit.
99% of Americans don't have health insurance.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@tster said:
@Zylon said:
@blakeyrat said:
99% of people never, ever customize toolbars.
99% of people never use Word for anything more complex than what WordPad can provide, so I'm not entirely clear on what point you think you're making.
99% of your claim is bullshit.
99% of Americans don't have health insurance.
99% of people with a middle name of "Hussein" are
terrorists.muslims.members of the religion of peace.
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@morbiuswilters said:
And the other 99% don't want health insurance.@tster said:
@Zylon said:
@blakeyrat said:
99% of people never, ever customize toolbars.
99% of people never use Word for anything more complex than what WordPad can provide, so I'm not entirely clear on what point you think you're making.
99% of your claim is bullshit.
99% of Americans don't have health insurance.
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@Scarlet Manuka said:
And if you really, desperately need the Home tab to stay where it is, then you can always just Ctrl+Click it to lock it there. But I'm sure you already knew that, right?
I didn't know it. I can't see it in any of the help or training topics on the ribbon (though - as with many commands on the ribbon itself - it's possible that the information I'm looking for has merely been put somewhere that I would not think to look for it), so I would have to suppose that this is not well-known.
I didn't have to work very hard to figure out. In fact I've never used the feature, I literally worked it out in less than 30 seconds just before I wrote yesterday's reply. I thought to myself, "Hey, I'll bet there's a way to stop the tab switching." I tried double-clicking. That did something else that I didn't want. So I tried clicking with some modifier keys, and lo and behold, that one worked.
So, sure, maybe only a "power user" would figure this out, but only a "power user" would ever want that behaviour.
The real point, though, is that on the previous version, once I modified the toolbars to suit my usage patterns, essentially everything I needed was available on a visible toolbar all the time, so there was no need for any of this mental juggling. If I needed a command it was always there and always in the same place. It's hard to beat that for efficiency.
Just how many functions did you regularly use that aren't on the Home tab? If it's less than, say, 20, then the Quick Access toolbar should be just fine for the job. If it's more, then you are genuinely a fringe case, and for people like you, it actually is possible to customize the ribbon - obviously, due to the ribbon's complexity, that's no longer as simple as just flipping through a Customize dialog, but it's certainly doable and probably worth it if it's going to triple your productivity and save you hours upon hours of wasted time.
Personally, I just cannot imagine a non-contrived instance where you'd need multiple full rows of tool buttons because the ribbon and one row together aren't enough. Maybe you have a legitimate need, but the fact that I can't even conjure up an image of what you'd be doing speaks to how pointless it would be for Microsoft to be trying to accommodate it in a commercial product.
I think the take-home lesson on this is that different people work in different ways, and while the new UI may be better for some (indeed, hopefully most) users, there are others for whom it is worse. I don't think it's helpful for each camp to insult the other.
Aha, now we're getting somewhere. I didn't insult you because you work in a different way, I insulted you because you bashed Microsoft for developing a genuinely good feature based on years of actual objective research, simply because it doesn't suit your personal taste.
Part of making progress involves leaving a few people behind. The only way you can possibly avoid ever making a product "worse" for any customer, ever, is to maintain the status quo indefinitely and never change anything. You can stick to that philosophy if you like, but the Microsoft folks have a business to run.
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@Zylon said:
The quick access bar is a pathetic shadow of the full-fledged custom toolbars of Office versions past. It's a half-assed sop to the limitations of the Ribbon, most likely added by MS as quick hack when they were far too committed to the Ribbon to do the right thing and scrap it.
Your reply is a pathetic shadow of the full-fledged arguments presented against you in thread replies past. It's a half-assed sop to the limitations of vacuous rhetoric, most likely added by you as a quick comeback when you were far too committed to your logic- and evidence-deficient rant to do the right thing and shut the hell up.
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Well, at least now Aaron has finally admitted that he's just trolling.
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@Zylon said:
Well, at least now Aaron has finally admitted that he's just trolling.
What he did was make a point of how inflammatory your word choice was. If you think his post was a troll, then you should probably consider re-reading your own post.
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@Zylon said:
Well, at least now Aaron has finally admitted that he's just trolling.
No, my post was objectively true. Unlike yours.
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@Aaron said:
@Zylon said:
Well, at least now Aaron has finally admitted that he's just trolling.
No, my post was objectively true. Unlike yours.
Children; on-topic non-meta discussion, please. Personal insults are allowed, so long as they are highly elaborate, eloquent and preferrably contain at least 1 well-placed reference to the other's maternal unit.
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@dhromed said:
Children; on-topic non-meta discussion, please.
Does anybody even remember what the actual topic of this thread was? Was it pie?
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@bstorer said:
@dhromed said:
Children; on-topic non-meta discussion, please.
Does anybody even remember what the actual topic of this thread was? Was it pie?No, it was about how to use Word to watch your favorite TV show.
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@tster said:
Oh, I never do that; it just takes too many clicks on that damn ribbon.@bstorer said:
@dhromed said:
Children; on-topic non-meta discussion, please.
Does anybody even remember what the actual topic of this thread was? Was it pie?No, it was about how to use Word to watch your favorite TV show.
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MORE META
@bstorer said:
@dhromed said:
The topic is the strengths and weaknesses of the Ribbon in office 2007. Just because it was not the original topic does not mean it's any less a real topic. Furthermore, it is the current topic, and therefore, the most important and most real, IMO.Children; on-topic non-meta discussion, please.
Does anybody even remember what the actual topic of this thread was? Was it pie?Also, your mother smells like farts.
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@bstorer said:
@tster said:
Oh, I never do that; it just takes too many clicks on that damn ribbon.@bstorer said:
@dhromed said:
Children; on-topic non-meta discussion, please.
Does anybody even remember what the actual topic of this thread was? Was it pie?No, it was about how to use Word to watch your favorite TV show.
That's why you should use emacs: a simple C-x C-z C-w will get you up-and-running. If that combination is too hard to remember you can just write your own using Emacs Lisp. Simple!
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@morbiuswilters said:
That's why you should use emacs: a simple C-x C-z C-w will get you up-and-running.
Is that like pressing Alt + F4 + S to save in MS Word?
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@amischiefr said:
@morbiuswilters said:
That's why you should use emacs: a simple C-x C-z C-w will get you up-and-running.
Is that like pressing Alt + F4 + S to save in MS Word?
I have no idea. I just made up a sequence by hitting keys with my left hand (my right hand was buys elsewhere).
It makes sense I would subconsciously come up with the sequence to close emacs since that's the command I use is to get the hell out when I accidentally launch it.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Actually, I think it should only suspend it (from the C-z) and send C-w to the shell. So modify it to C-x C-z C-d (also reachable with the left hand) and call it a win.@amischiefr said:
@morbiuswilters said:
That's why you should use emacs: a simple C-x C-z C-w will get you up-and-running.
Is that like pressing Alt + F4 + S to save in MS Word?
I have no idea. I just made up a sequence by hitting keys with my left hand (my right hand was buys elsewhere).
It makes sense I would subconsciously come up with the sequence to close emacs since that's the command I use is to get the hell out when I accidentally launch it.
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@bstorer said:
@dhromed said:
Children; on-topic non-meta discussion, please.
Does anybody even remember what the actual topic of this thread was? Was it pie?I believe the sequence went something like:
"Ha ha, somebody thought that the floppy disk icon was actually a TV."
"That is funny. But then again, floppy disks are obsolete. Maybe the whole idea of file systems and saving is obsolete."
"RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! Stop trying to take choices away from me, the typical average user who absolutely does represent 99% of Microsoft's customers!"
"Actually, you probably don't even represent 1% of their customers. You're a code monkey, nobody cares what you think."
"RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! The Ribbon is proof that they never listen to their customers, because it sucks and everybody hates it!"
"Actually, most people prefer the Ribbon because it doesn't suck. If you hate it, that's your problem."
"NO YOUR WRONG I'M TELLING!!!!!!"
"Good luck with that."
"JUST YOU WAIT UNTIL OPENOFFICE FINALLY STARTS UP ON MY MACHINE IN 8 YEARS FROM NOW, YOUR GONNA GET IT!!!"There. Have I adequately expressed the exhilarating nuances and hard-hitting arguments inherent to this scintillating debate?
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@bstorer said:
@morbiuswilters said:
Actually, I think it should only suspend it (from the C-z) and send C-w to the shell. So modify it to C-x C-z C-d (also reachable with the left hand) and call it a win.@amischiefr said:
@morbiuswilters said:
That's why you should use emacs: a simple C-x C-z C-w will get you up-and-running.
Is that like pressing Alt + F4 + S to save in MS Word?
I have no idea. I just made up a sequence by hitting keys with my left hand (my right hand was buys elsewhere).
It makes sense I would subconsciously come up with the sequence to close emacs since that's the command I use is to get the hell out when I accidentally launch it.
Some shells require you to press C-d a second time to exit if there are suspended jobs.
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@Aaron said:
Awww, I was really hoping it was pie. I've got some great comments about pie saved up.@bstorer said:
@dhromed said:
Children; on-topic non-meta discussion, please.
Does anybody even remember what the actual topic of this thread was? Was it pie?I believe the sequence went something like:
"Ha ha, somebody thought that the floppy disk icon was actually a TV."
"That is funny. But then again, floppy disks are obsolete. Maybe the whole idea of file systems and saving is obsolete."
"RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! Stop trying to take choices away from me, the typical average user who absolutely does represent 99% of Microsoft's customers!"
"Actually, you probably don't even represent 1% of their customers. You're a code monkey, nobody cares what you think."
"RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! The Ribbon is proof that they never listen to their customers, because it sucks and everybody hates it!"
"Actually, most people prefer the Ribbon because it doesn't suck. If you hate it, that's your problem."
"NO YOUR WRONG I'M TELLING!!!!!!"
"Good luck with that."
"JUST YOU WAIT UNTIL OPENOFFICE FINALLY STARTS UP ON MY MACHINE IN 8 YEARS FROM NOW, YOUR GONNA GET IT!!!"There. Have I adequately expressed the exhilarating nuances and hard-hitting arguments inherent to this scintillating debate?
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@bstorer said:
Awww, I was really hoping it was pie. I've got some great comments about pie saved up.
Now that you mention it, the Office floppy disk icon does kind of look like a (burnt) pop tart with white icing on it. That's kind of like pie, right?
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@morbiuswilters said:
@bstorer said:
Awww, I was really hoping it was pie. I've got some great comments about pie saved up.
Now that you mention it, the Office floppy disk icon does kind of look like a (burnt) pop tart with white icing on it. That's kind of like pie, right?
Good enough for me.
I think pie needs to be redesigned so that there is more filling and less crust. Perhaps they should remove the crust ribbon interface.
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@DescentJS said:
@morbiuswilters said:
@bstorer said:
Awww, I was really hoping it was pie. I've got some great comments about pie saved up.
Now that you mention it, the Office floppy disk icon does kind of look like a (burnt) pop tart with white icing on it. That's kind of like pie, right?
Good enough for me.
I think pie needs to be redesigned so that there is more filling and less crust. Perhaps they should remove the crust ribbon interface.
I think they should remove the ribbons of icing from cake because I'm diabetic and can't eat sugar and that means everyone else should have to be diabetic, too!
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@morbiuswilters said:
Why is it that Hostess Fruit Pies are considered pies, but Hot Pockets aren't? They're both filling inside a baked crust, and they're both equally questionable to refer to as "food". Hell, Hot Pockets are even cooked, while Hostess Fruit Pies are extruded whole by the hive queen of Gliese 581 c during her (Considering the flimsy understanding we have of gender in Gliesen giant scarabs, perhaps "its" is more apt?) mating season.@bstorer said:
Awww, I was really hoping it was pie. I've got some great comments about pie saved up.
Now that you mention it, the Office floppy disk icon does kind of look like a (burnt) pop tart with white icing on it. That's kind of like pie, right?
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@bstorer said:
Why is it that Hostess Fruit Pies are considered pies, but Hot Pockets aren't?
This is for backward compatibility with the legacy Hot Pockets Pizza Minis and Croissant Crust products, which do not support pie scenarios. Fruit Pies were a new product line so Hostess was free to eschew the limited and outmoded Snack API and push their new Dessert architecture.
Not surprisingly, a number of previous Hot Pockets users who upgraded to Fruit Pie have complained of insufficient meat and/or cheese in the Pie, claiming that simply melting a slice of American cheese on top is a clumsy and inconvenient and altogether unacceptable workaround.
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@bstorer said:
Why is it that Hostess Fruit Pies are considered pies, but Hot Pockets aren't?
The same reason a crepe isn't considered a burrito.
