High-tech building + no smoking = ...
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@jeffg said:
a tiny joy to the millions of people who pay more for health insurance because of increased health care costs due to smokers?
Untrue. Every study I've ever seen indicates smokers pay considerably more into Social Security, Medicare and health insurance than they receive in benefits. Which person costs more to care for: the 60-year-old who is diagnosed with lung cancer and will die in 6 months or the 90-year-old who spend 2 decades falling apart slowly? Health freaks are a drag on society, not to mention completely boring, uptight shitheads.
@jeffg said:
or a tiny joy to the millions of kids who get to watch their parents die young?
All kids have to watch their parents die, asshat. Unless you think it's better that the kids die first. Smoking parents will die younger, but their kids are still going to be fully-grown when it happens, they just have to experience it 10 to 20 years sooner than if their parents were in top shape. Boo-fucking-hoo, it's their parents' life to live. No parent is under the obligation to squeeze every last, wretched minute possible out of their lives just so crybabies like you can have a few extra years of denial about their own mortality.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@jeffg said:
a tiny joy to the millions of people who pay more for health insurance because of increased health care costs due to smokers?
Untrue. Every study I've ever seen indicates smokers pay considerably more into Social Security, Medicare and health insurance than they receive in benefits. Which person costs more to care for: the 60-year-old who is diagnosed with lung cancer and will die in 6 months or the 90-year-old who spend 2 decades falling apart slowly? Health freaks are a drag on society, not to mention completely boring, uptight shitheads.
And I find it amazing that he didn't even take the time to read the hole thread, as you have already stated the health care costs issue before. He's just whining, whining, whining all the time.
To all these people complaining that "smokers take breaks at work", "smokers costs more to the system", "smokers stink, boo hoo, I'm gonna tell mom!", think about it this way: The LAW gives to every citizen the right to smoke on open public areas. Smokers decide to execute that right. Non-smokers prefer not to. If you think smokers are taking advantage, join them. It's simple like that.
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@belgariontheking said:
Posting drunk again?@boomzilla said:
Driving the car might actually kill someone else. Though more likely from plowing into them than as a carcinogen.
boomzilla, be less of an idiot. then we may let you post on our forums again.
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@boomzilla said:
@belgariontheking said:
Posting drunk again?@boomzilla said:
Driving the car might actually kill someone else. Though more likely from plowing into them than as a carcinogen.
boomzilla, be less of an idiot. then we may let you post on our forums again.This implies BTK posts sober, which I think is highly unlikely. Hey, the poor guy has to work with Oracle all day, so alcoholism really shouldn't be unexpected. However, to make a point: the number of people who die from second-hand smoke each year in the US is something like 10,000. However, all of these are people who lived with chain smokers and inhaled smoke day-and-night for many, many years. To claim there is a non-negligable affect on the health of people who infrequently catch a whiff of smoke in the open air is silly (I know you weren't claiming this, I'm just saying). The daily exposure to car exhaust and other forms of air pollution is much more surely a cause of ill-health than smoke inhaled while passing a smoker on the sidewalk. Fuck, I can state with absolute confidence that more people die from colds or the flu than second-hand smoke each year. These are illnesses spread via respiration, so the people who complain about the effect of second-hand smoke on their health should be thousands of times more afraid of anyone near them who has a sniffle. When someone sneezes in public OMFG THEY ARE POISONING AND RAPING MY LUNGS!!!!
Not flaming you, just making a point. That is all.
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@morbiuswilters said:
However, to make a point: the number of people who die from second-hand smoke each year in the US is something like 10,000.
I think that even that number is an overestimate. There's been no significant link found between second hand smoke and lung cancer*. But even if we accept that number, and then go with the approximate 40K people who die from car accidents, at least 20K of them probably weren't the driver at fault, so that's at least twice the number killed by driving a car.* The Relative Risk associated with second hand smoke for cancer (yes, this was the study relied upon by the Surgeon General) was something like 1.2. That means that they found about a 20% increased risk. Traditionally, in epidemiology, nothing below 2 is taken seriously, and usually it's gotta be over 3. The RR for smoking and lung cancer is much higher--somewhere around 20 according to the American Cancer Society. It might disgust you, it might give you a headache or make you wheeze (though whether this is real or psycho-somatic...) but it probably ain't giving you cancer. Ok, enough reason...back to the flames, fuckwad.
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@boomzilla said:
Posting stupid again?@belgariontheking said:
Posting drunk again?@boomzilla said:
Driving the car might actually kill someone else. Though more likely from plowing into them than as a carcinogen.
boomzilla, be less of an idiot. then we may let you post on our forums again.
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@belgariontheking said:
Please don't give your password to Farmer Brown.@boomzilla said:
Posting stupid again?@belgariontheking said:
Posting drunk again?@boomzilla said:
Driving the car might actually kill someone else. Though more likely from plowing into them than as a carcinogen.
boomzilla, be less of an idiot. then we may let you post on our forums again.
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@boomzilla said:
Please don't give your brain to anyone. It's useless to them, just as it's useless to you@belgariontheking said:
Please don't give your password to MPS.@boomzilla said:
Posting stupid again?@belgariontheking said:
Posting drunk again?@boomzilla said:
Driving the car might actually kill someone else. Though more likely from plowing into them than as a carcinogen.
boomzilla, be less of an idiot. then we may let you post on our forums again.Also, FTFY
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@Nightshift said:
And I find it amazing that he didn't even take the time to read the hole thread.
It doesn't amaze me.
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@belgariontheking said:
Heh. I'm trying to decide which is more likely: I won your random troll / flame lottery, or Second hand smoke ran over your dog.@boomzilla said:
Please don't give your brain to anyone. It's useless to them, just as it's useless to you@belgariontheking said:
Please don't give your password to MPS.@boomzilla said:
Posting stupid again?@belgariontheking said:
Posting drunk again?@boomzilla said:
Driving the car might actually kill someone else. Though more likely from plowing into them than as a carcinogen.
boomzilla, be less of an idiot. then we may let you post on our forums again.Also, FTFY
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just quit, weak souls
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@boomzilla said:
Heh. I'm trying to decide which is more likely: I won your random troll / flame lottery, or Second hand smoke ran over your dog.
Wait, what? I thought you were one of the anti-smoking whiners. If you're not, then sorry for trolling you. I'll stop and concentrate on those that deserve it.And fluffy was more than a dog, *sniff* okay?
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@morbiuswilters said:
Untrue. Every study I've ever seen indicates smokers pay considerably more into Social Security, Medicare and health insurance than they receive in benefits.
hi moron,
i said nonsmokers' costs go up because of addicted clowns like yourself. smokers paying more than they receive has nothing to do with that.
i am glad that you smoke, and look forward to the day when you are no longer posting on this site
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@belgariontheking said:
Wait, what? I thought you were one of the anti-smoking whiners. If you're not, then sorry for trolling you. I'll stop and concentrate on those that deserve it.
Fair enough. Apparently I need to be more blatant when flaming those losers.Please see especially these two previous posts:
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@jeffg said:
hi moron,
i said nonsmokers' costs go up because of addicted clowns like yourself. smokers paying more than they receive has nothing to do with that.
No, you said:
@Idiot McIdiotface said:
a tiny joy to the millions of people who pay more for health insurance because of increased health care costs due to smokers?
Which is false and stupid. If smokers pay for more than they receive, then they are subsidizing non-smokers, not the other way around, you brain-dead fucktard.
@jeffg said:
i am glad that you smoke, and look forward to the day when you are no longer posting on this site
I am glad that I smoke, too. However, I'll most likely outlive you unless your physical age matches your mental age, which seems to be about 7.
Also, learn to fucking capitalize and use punctuation: this isn't your mommy's refrigerator and we're not impressed with the bits of color-smeared construction paper you've dragged your Downsy, paint-covered claw over.
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just quit, weak soul
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@jeffg said:
just quit, weak soul
Why? I like smoking. It's not like I can't quit, I just choose not to.
Just quit trolling, weak mind.
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3000 posts doesn't make you not a troll. your posts are a waste and so are you. please stop.
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@jeffg said:
3000 posts doesn't make you not a troll. your posts are a waste and so are you. please stop.
Where do they make people like you? Did you not read what he has posted?
He's the only one in this stupid thread that has actually backed up his statements with facts.
Seriously dude. Try increasing your reading comprehension skills, or I don't know, maybe post something usefull, or at least funny.
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I find it hilarious that anti-smokers spend more time whining than smokers and introducing idiotic bans, because they can't walk two steps away so that the smoke doesn't blow in their face.
Don't like something in this world? Leave, don't force the rest of the world to change.
I'm in no support of smoking, despite being a smoker, but the only thing that annoys me more than smokers who deny the disadvantages, are stuck up anti-smoking snobs who think they are on some kind of crusade to save the smokers. Guess what? They don't need your help... Oh I'm sorry did I hurt your feelings?
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the point is that some people don't feel like breathing in your poison. and to say "oh it's diluted in the air", or "walk away" or "don't drive a car and i'll quit smoking" (surprised that person can use a computer) isn't right. you are imposing toxic chemicals on others. that is wrong.
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@jeffg said:
ou are imposing toxic chemicals on others.
It's the dose that makes the poison. And the dosage in second hand smoke is low enough that it's not a poison.
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I am sure you are not freegan, thus you have a carbon footprint, you also diminish good environment in countries like china and taiwan.So it is not right that we live in the society that we live in today. Nobody is imposing it on you, noone is forcing you to inhale it.
On that note, brb for a smoke ;)
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@jeffg said:
the point is that some people don't feel like breathing in your poison. and to say "oh it's diluted in the air", or "walk away" or "don't drive a car and i'll quit smoking" (surprised that person can use a computer) isn't right. you are imposing toxic chemicals on others. that is wrong.
At least I can find my shift key :). And yes, it is diluted, you CAN walk away and you CAN do something about the harmful toxins that you breathe in every day by not driving. These are TRUTHS not bullshit made up. What is wrong is self righteous assholes like you that think you can impose your personal beliefs on others. You're as bad as those fucking Mormans that show up occasionally at my door getting all mad at me if I don't want to hear their stupid bible quote.
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Sorry, no youtube at work :( They don't want us watching videos while we are supposed to be working, we might lose productivity...
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@boomzilla said:
Tar will stick to your lungs forever, be it a low dosage or not. I do not really care if someone else wants to smoke or not, but I do care if he's smoking near my desk, or in an enclosed area.@jeffg said:
ou are imposing toxic chemicals on others.
It's the dose that makes the poison. And the dosage in second hand smoke is low enough that it's not a poison.One of the reasons I stopped going to discos was that people smoking would create a "nice" layer of smog, meaning that most of us were "smoking" anyways because of the second-hand smoke. My grandma also has a couple of respiratory system diseases usually caused by smoking, even if she doesn't smoke. These were caused because of her friends who do smoke ... in an enclosed, small room.
If you want to smoke, so be it; just do it in open-air or well ventilated areas. Oh, and in my apartment, whoever wants to smoke, has to do it near the windows, as the tobacco smell usually stagnates inside the apt.
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@jeffg said:
the point is that some people don't feel like breathing in your poison. and to say "oh it's diluted in the air", or "walk away" or "don't drive a car and i'll quit smoking" (surprised that person can use a computer) isn't right. you are imposing toxic chemicals on others. that is wrong.
I don't think we gave you permission to post on the forums. Become not stupid and you may be given the privelege.
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Wait what... Forever? That sounds so scary. Where did you get that 'fact'?
It is medically proven that once quit smoking, the damages reverse in 7-8 years... F* our skin doesnt stay on forever. Why would tar stay longer than our skin... ON constantly renewing cells?
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@amischiefr said:
You're as bad as those fucking Mormons that show up occasionally at my door getting all mad at me if I don't want to hear their stupid bible quote.
Strange. Here the Mormons are quite polite and don't insist if you say you're not interested. Unlike Jehovah's Witnesses, they can be really obnoxious.
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Sheesh, is this thread still going? Do we really have this many smokers somehow trying to justify themselves? Do we really need to wade through all these half-arsed excuses?
Ok, how about this... let's put the whole secondary smoke health issue aside for a second and talk about some the other things that make smokers evil. Here, I'll make a list so they can easily pick which one they like and nitpick/invent retarded excuses for another 5 pages...
The Stench - Smoker stink. Literally. Their breath stinks, their clothes stink, their houses stink and any enclosed place they've smoked in stinks. And if you have the misfortune of spending more than a minute around someone smoking, then your clothes stink too. Thanks for that.
The Chocking - health issues aside I don't appreciate gasping and chocking when I become engulfed in someone's little cloud of death on the street. Imagine having random people carrying little pieces of burning rubber and every couple of blocks you get a nice big breath of that smoke. That's what it's like.
The Trash. Oh this is a big one. It's one of the things that seriously tick me off. Go out on the street and observe a smoker. What does he do when he finishes? Why, he throws the butt on the street of course. Now I would like one of the smartasses on this thread to explain to me exactly when it became socially acceptable, not to mention legal, to jump dump your trash where you stand. Seriously, go ahead.
Now I know what you're thinking... I can see it just as the thought is forming in your head... "Cities are full of trash anyway." Doesn't make it right, just means you're not the only asshole out there. Or "the city has people to pick up trash anyway". They're there only because of people like you. And even so they don't suffice because <number of smokers in a city>*<cigaretes one of them smokes on the street per day> = permanent dump.
I'm not all that heart-broken about city streets however. Oh, no. What really pisses me off is the state of things outside the cities. Try to take a holiday anywhere where there's a bit of nature around. There might be a plastic bag on the ground. You might find a candy wrapper. What you'll most definately find however, is cigarete butts. Everywhere. The whole f*cking world is paved with them.
And speaking of paved, try going to the beach. Any unorganised beach open to the public. Can someone explain to me how monumentally evil does someone have to be to lay on the sand on a pristine sandy beach right next to the clear sparkling blue water, smoke a cigarete and then go "Now where shall I throw this... I know.. right here by my arm. In fact I'll put all them here and build a little fence for my sand castle. There.. that's better". How much of a bastard do you have to be to treat a beautiful public place like your personal ashtray?
Do you understand now why I talk about firing squads?
The Fires - Is there anyone alive that hasn't lost count of the times some idiot smoker somehow managed to start a fire? Oh, I know what you're thinking again.. It's "Smokers are responsible only for a small percentage of fires because statistics show that...etc". Again doesn't make them right, just means they're not the only assholes out there. Now I've got nothing against some guy falling asleep with a cigarete in his hand and burning the house down with himself in it. That's just evolution at work. But it's not just him, is it? How many apartment buildings... how many people... hell they even managed to light a friggin subway station on fire.
And if only that was the end of it. Two words for you... forest fires. That's righ, how many thousands of acres gone because some junkie smoker not only threw his trash where he was standing (see above) but didn't even have the decency to move his foot 10 centimeters and put it out.
The Attitude - One of their best qualities. Try telling a smoker that he's bothering you. Go ahead. A lot of them give you this look like you told them a pink elephant just flew by. I once had one of them give me that look in my own house. They probably think the right to smoke is in the constitution somewhere. Hell, if you want to see the most incredulous look possible on a someone's face, just tell one of them to pick up the cigarete butt they just threw down. It's like something logical comes out of your mouth and as it travels through the cloud of death it transforms into something else which only they can hear. I don't know what that is exactly. Maybe they hear "Go make me a sandwich" or "You owe me money". Whatever it is it must be pretty insane.
And of course they're never, ever wrong. Your clothes stink? Can't breath? You should have walked away. Cigarette butts everywhere? Wasn't me. Fires? It's global warming plus they should have cleared away the underbrush. My addiction making your life difficult? Quit whining.
And with that I'll leave you to enjoy the oncoming quoting orgy.
Now where's the Tylenol...
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@fatdog said:
He's the only one in this stupid thread that has actually backed up his statements with facts.
False.
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@DOA said:
Now where's the Tylenol...
omg stfu n00b. You're getting a headache over what? being wrong!
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@belgariontheking said:
omg stfu n00b. You're getting a headache over what? being wrong!
I'm not an expert on posting etiquette, but I'm pretty sure that starting a post with "omg stfu n00b" doesn't help any point you make afterwards. Assuming of course there was a point in the first place.
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@DOA said:
My point was this. This is what you sound like.@belgariontheking said:
omg stfu n00b. You're getting a headache over what? being wrong!
I'm not an expert on posting etiquette, but I'm pretty sure that starting a post with "omg stfu n00b" doesn't help any point you make afterwards. Assuming of course there was a point in the first place.@DOA said:
omg stfu n00b I no wat im talkin about
Noone's listening to you anymore. I just skipped to the bottom to maybe find something and found the Tylenol line.
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@DOA said:
They probably think the right to smoke is in the constitution somewhere.
The Constitution doesn't work that way. *Everything* is legal until made illegal; until there is a federal law making smoking illegal, they do have the right to smoke.
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@belgariontheking said:
My point was this. This is what you sound like. @DOA said:
Noone's listening, yet here you are. Are we really gonna have this meta-discussion or do you have something of essense to say?omg stfu n00b I no wat im talkin about
Noone's listening to you anymore. I just skipped to the bottom to maybe find something and found the Tylenol line.
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@danixdefcon5 said:
Tar will stick to your lungs forever, be it a low dosage or not.
No it doesn't. Holy fuck, are you this stupid? If that were the case, dust and crud would accumulate in your lungs until you just choked to death.
@danixdefcon5 said:
If you want to smoke, so be it; just do it in open-air or well ventilated areas.
Nobody has advocated smoking at your desk, dude. We have people who think smoking outdoors is fine versus whiny, batshit idiots who think that a whiff of smoke will kill them.
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@DOA said:
They probably think the right to smoke is in the constitution somewhere.
Where is the power to restrict it? If anything, it's reserved for the States and the People. Unfortunately, following the Constitution isn't the 'in' thing with those who have sworn to uphold it.
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@DOA said:
Are we really gonna have this meta-discussion or do you have something of essense to say?
It's better than your dumbass whining. I bet you wouldn't even clean up your own shit off the toilet seat in a public bathroom, but you sit in here and whine about the infinitesimal dangers of others smoking somewhere in the next county.
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@destriaero said:
It is medically proven that once quit smoking, the damages reverse in 7-8 years...
No, it does not. If a frequent, regular smoker quits smoking, it will take a full 15 years for their lung cancer risk to drop to that of a non-smoker. The damage to the cells is never, ever reversed. The problem isn't direct damage to cells, as your body can just replace damaged cells. The problem is that your DNA in those cells is being exposed to carcinogenic compounds that will slowly mutate the DNA. Additionally, smokers have a higher rate of replacement of their lung cells, which means more DNA replication and more chances for errors to slip in that way. Cancer has nothing to do with damaged cells, it has to do with damaged DNA and once DNA is damaged it will continue to propagate.
Of course, our DNA is constantly being damaged and mutated and the older someone gets, the more mutation that builds up. That's why the anti-smoking whiners are so moronic -- their own body will naturally develop cancer without any outside interference and the are exposed to carcinogens all the time. However, it is the repeated, constant, long-term exposure to carcinogens which causes smokers to develop numerous mutations. As the body ages, its ability to deal with crap DNA decreases and it becomes more likely that crap DNA will spawn cancer that will devour the body. Your body is actually developing cancers of sorts all the time, but normally the immune system is able to exterminate obvious cancers quickly and efficiently, which is also why people with AIDS become susceptible to very obscure, odd cancers like Karposi's Sarcoma.
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@belgariontheking said:
It's better than your dumbass whining. I bet you wouldn't even clean up your own shit off the toilet seat in a public bathroom, but you sit in here and whine about the infinitesimal dangers of others smoking somewhere in the next county.
No I'm talking about every country and I'm talking about facts and common knowledge. But I suppose that was too elaborate for you. Let me try and put it into more familiar terms and condense it into a ADD-friendly format... ZOMG!!!11 you suck at teh logic!!!11
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@DOA said:
The Stench
I'm betting you're a fatass and smell like pork, but I still wouldn't sit around bitching about it, I'd just hold my breath around you and try not to pass out.
@DOA said:
The Chocking
Seriously, stop crying. You act as if you've never had to deal with anything the slightest bit annoying in your life. Shut your fucking whiny face.
@DOA said:
The Trash
There's more food garbage than cigarette trash most places, so let's outlaw food. Or why not have more public receptacles for cig butts? I use them when they are around, look for a storm drain when not and if I can't find one of those I just throw it in the window of a passing anti-smoking crybaby in the hopes it causes them to crash into a concrete wall and impale themselves on the steering column, killing them slowly and painfully.
@DOA said:
The Fires
Wouldn't outlawing camping be more productive if you are concerned about wildfires? Something tells me a cigarette is not going to cause thousands of acres of forest to burn up quite like an unattended campfire will.
@DOA said:
They probably think the right to smoke is in the constitution somewhere.
The right to smoke is just an inherent component of human freedom. It's the right to be left alone. It doesn't need to be in writing because law does not permit people to do things, it permits government to do things. If government thinks that it has the right to control people's lives, it will be destroyed, the tyrants killed and it will be replaced. We've done it before and will do it again if necessary. As a rule, we tend to prefer to resolve things through non-violent democratic methods, but when that fails we can always just kill the bastards. So, no, there does not need to be a "right to smoke" anymore than there needs to be a "right to read" or a "right to chew your fingernails", etc...
@DOA said:
Hell, if you want to see the most incredulous look possible on a someone's face, just tell one of them to pick up the cigarete butt they just threw down.
If you tried that with me, I'd just tell you to fuck off and die. I might mock you until you burst into tears and ran away or--better yet--tried to throw a punch or instigate violence in some other stupid way, which would let me smash your skull against something hard for a few minutes.
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@morbiuswilters said:
I'm betting you're a fatass and smell like pork, but I still wouldn't sit around bitching about it, I'd just hold my breath around you and try not to pass out.
...and yet I'm not. So that was completely pointless.@morbiuswilters said:Seriously, stop crying. You act as if you've never had to deal with anything the slightest bit annoying in your life. Shut your fucking whiny face.
I've already covered attitude, you don't have to prove it.@morbiuswilters said:There's more food garbage than cigarette trash most places, so let's outlaw food.
If you really want me to point out how stupid this comparison is, let me know.@morbiuswilters said:Or why not have more public receptacles for cig butts?
Yes, let's pay taxes to accomodate your addiction.@morbiuswilters said:I use them when they are around, look for a storm drain when not and if I can't find one of those I just throw it in the window of a passing anti-smoking crybaby in the hopes it causes them to crash into a concrete wall and impale themselves on the steering column, killing them slowly and painfully.
Are you trying to prove you're an asshole?@morbiuswilters said:Wouldn't outlawing camping be more productive if you are concerned about wildfires? Something tells me a cigarette is not going to cause thousands of acres of forest to burn up quite like an unattended campfire will.
Like I said: "Doesn't make it right, just means you're not the only asshole out there".@morbiuswilters said:The right to smoke is just an inherent component of human freedom. It's the right to be left alone.<snip>
I could argue about the rights non-smokers have, but let's just give you this one to avoid opening that entire subject.@morbiuswilters said:@DOA said:
@DOA said:Hell, if you want to see the most incredulous look possible on a someone's face, just tell one of them to pick up the cigarete butt they just threw down.
If you tried that with me, I'd just tell you to fuck off and die. I might mock you until you burst into tears and ran away or--better yet--tried to throw a punch or instigate violence in some other stupid way, which would let me smash your skull against something hard for a few minutes.It's like something logical comes out of your mouth and as it travels through the cloud of death it transforms into something else which only they can hear. I don't know what that is exactly. Maybe they hear "Go make me a sandwich" or "You owe me money". Whatever it is it must be pretty insane.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Shut your fucking whiny face.
Hey thanks for actually reading his bullshit. It sounds like it was everything I assumed it would be: bullshit heaped upon more bullshit heaped upon self-righteous retardation. He will never realize it though, as the post just below yours indicates.For the record, the above quote from morbs best encapsulates the way to deal with people like DOA.
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@DOA said:
..snip..
I think you would really benefit from moving to singapore. Most of the issues you seem to have are already taken care of there. And i think english is a mayor second language there, so you might not even have to learn a new language.
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I fail to understand why this thread hasn't died, or been euthanized, yet. It's like how watching 12 Angry Men would be if Henry Fonda and Lee J. Cobb suddenly started sissy slap-fighting halfway through the movie.
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@DOA said:
They probably think the right to smoke is in the constitution somewhere.
Here it is:
@Constitution of the United States of America: Amendment 7 said:
nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
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@durendal.mk3 said:
I fail to understand why this thread hasn't died, or been euthanized, yet. It's like how watching 12 Angry Men would be if Henry Fonda and Lee J. Cobb suddenly started sissy slap-fighting halfway through the movie.
I fail to see why people post in threads they aren't interested in when it is obvious other people are still interested in the discussion.
