US DMV WTF



  •  A few months ago my parents moved back from Germany to the US. They used to live in Florida a few years ago before returning to Germany and now moved to Denver.

    So today, they decide to stop by the DMV together to get their Colorado Drivers licenses since they still have their Florida licenses.

    When my father goes to get his new license, they state they can't issue him a Colorado license until he shows them a letter from his employer proving he's employed at the company there. He didn't know about that so obviously didn't have such a letter with him and could not receive his Colorado license. However, the same person had no problem issuing my mom her Colorado license since she's his wife and they live in Denver.

     

     



  • I'm not really suprised considering the trainwreck of beuraracy that powers the DMV (and the US government in general). Not all states are quite this bad, but I know New York and New Jersey often have some of the worse DMV services, requiring to make multiple phone calls and get shunted from department to department, or fill out three or four forms with at the branch office.



    On the flip side, the Massachusetts and Flodira DMVs didn't seem quite so bad during the times I lived there, so it pretty much varies from state to state (and in some cases, office to office, since some are seemingly working towards streamlining the process).



  • Can't he just go back now and get his license as the spouse of a (licensed) Denver resident?



  • I had that same thought but apparently not...



  • My mom once lost her driver's license on a Delta flight.  Needing a new one, she looked in to what she needed to do in order to replace it.  Step one was, she needed a copy of her birth certificate, which she didn't have.  Then she had to find out what she needed in order to get a copy of her birth certificate.  Step one, she needed her driver's license. You can see the problem.   Thankfully Delta found her license on a flight and mailed it to her.

    Yes, she was aware there are other usable documents.  For various reasons none were available.



  • @Heron said:

    My mom once lost her driver's license on a Delta flight.  Needing a new one, she looked in to what she needed to do in order to replace it.  Step one was, she needed a copy of her birth certificate, which she didn't have.  Then she had to find out what she needed in order to get a copy of her birth certificate.  Step one, she needed her driver's license. You can see the problem.   Thankfully Delta found her license on a flight and mailed it to her.

    Yes, she was aware there are other usable documents.  For various reasons none were available.

     

     

    Trying to change your name is much the same. Changing your name on document A requires a copy of document B with the name already changed... and B requires the same of A.

     

    TRWTF is the spastic autocomplete in the Tags input box. Events on keydown and keyup for Shift?! WTF?!



  •  The real WTF is that the US of A, oldest and most powerful alliance of states in the world still requires you to get a driving license from your state of residence. This really should be a federal gov issued document. (IANA: I am not american)

     At least in europe we have that: <font size="2">The
    ninth recital of Directive 91/439/EEC stipulates explicitly that the
    obligation to exchange driving licences within a year in the event
    of change of State of normal residence constitutes an obstacle to
    the free movement of persons and is inadmissible in the light of the
    progress made within the framework of European integration.</font>

    My driving license stipulate what type of vehicule I am capable of driving. I doesn't not serve as a proof of residence or identity, nor does my healthcare card or my (long gone) student id card, so it really doesn't matter if I got it in Germany, France or anywhere else. A car is still a car. For the rest I have had a passport since the age of 11.

     

     



  • <sarcasm>He should have told them he was an illegal alien... probably would have gotten a driver's license plus a stipend to buy a car...</sarcasm>



  • @mrJoe said:

     The real WTF is that the US of A, oldest and most powerful alliance of states in the world still requires you to get a driving license from your state of residence. This really should be a federal gov issued document. (IANA: I am not american)
     

    TRWTF is that a foreigner doesn't understand how our federal government and our state powers are divided but still thinks it is a good idea to show everyone his ignorance. Maybe you should try reading up on what you are talking about before posting your ignorance as fact?



  • @mrJoe said:

    that the US of A, oldest and most powerful alliance of states in the world still requires you to get a driving license from your state of residence. This really should be a federal gov issued document

    Actually, this is exactly why you can't drive a motor vehicle in the United Kingdom with an American driving licence:

    1. Driving licences in America are issued by the states, not the Federal Government, so individual states need to sign treaties with HM Government about accepting each other's driving licences.
    2. The American Constitution forbids states to sign treaties with foreign countries.
    3. You cannot drive in the United Kingdom with an American driving licence


  • @DrJokepu said:

    Actually, this is exactly why you can't drive a motor vehicle in the United Kingdom with an American driving licence
    Americans have licenses, not licences. Duh!



  • @mrJoe said:

    My driving license stipulate what type of vehicule I am capable of driving. I doesn't not serve as a proof of residence or identity, nor does my healthcare card or my (long gone) student id card, so it really doesn't matter if I got it in Germany, France or anywhere else. A car is still a car. For the rest I have had a passport since the age of 11.

     

    Why precisely is it a good thing to have just one solitary piece of documentation that's considered a valid form of ID?

    I know we're not dealing with an information system per se, but the phrase "single point of failure" comes to mind.

    P.S. How do you actually remember a term like "<font size="2">ninth recital of Directive 91/439/EEC" - or did you look that up?</font>



  • @DrJokepu said:

    Driving licences in America are issued by the states, not the Federal Government, so individual states need to sign treaties with HM Government about accepting each other's driving licences.

    What I don't understand is why there would need to be a treaty involved.  Can't the UK government just accept a valid US license? 



  • Maybe that's just the polite excuse.  Imagine the pandemonium when plane loads of visiting Yanks drive on the right side of the road.



  • @DogmaBites said:

    Maybe that's just the polite excuse.  Imagine the pandemonium when plane loads of visiting Yanks drive on the right side of the road.

    Well it's not like we're going to drive on the wrong side of the road like you Limey bastards.



  • @DogmaBites said:

    Maybe that's just the polite excuse.  Imagine the pandemonium when plane loads of visiting Yanks drive on the right wrong side of the road.

    FTFY



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    What I don't understand is why there would need to be a treaty involved.  Can't the UK government just accept a valid US license?

    One of the main problems with accepting US licences is that they are (a) many states have easily forgeable licences (b) they is no way to check validity.

    In order to check validity we would require access to each states DMV to check such details. Which I sincerely doubt any state would. Here in europe there are measures in place to easily check validity of neighbouring countries licence validity.



  • @Hitsuji said:

    One of the main problems with accepting US licences is that they are (a) many states have easily forgeable licences (b) they is no way to check validity.

    How are US licenses any more forgeable than UK ones?  You could check for validity by making a phone call if it came to that.  It's not like a lot of Americans are going to travel to England are going to bother forging a license.

     

    EDIT:  meant "more forgeable" 



  • Why TF would a letter from an employer be a condition of getting a driving license?



  • @LoztInSpace said:

    Why TF would a letter from an employer be a condition of getting a driving license?

    The only thing I can figure is that the OP's parents aren't US citizens and the state of Colorado doesn't want to issue a license to someone who isn't meeting the terms of their visa.  That's just a wild-ass guess, though. 



  • @mrJoe said:

    My driving license stipulate what type of vehicule I am capable of driving. I doesn't not serve as a proof of residence or identity

    Hey! My license is exactly that: it shows my name, and type of car I can drive. However, this is only the case for Mexico City; the other 31 states have the full address in the license. However, the Federal District licenses omit our address on purpose, as it has become common practice for muggers to use this information for a later break-and-entry.

    We have something similar to "national ID card": the voter ID card. That one's recognized as an official ID nationwide... however it also includes your full address, so many of us keep it at home unless we need to do something requiring ID. For most of the situations, however, a driving license will be enough.



  • @danixdefcon5 said:

    However, the Federal District licenses omit our address on purpose, as it has become common practice for muggers to use this information for a later break-and-entry.
    I'll take "Reasons I Don't Want to Live in Mexico City" for $1200, Alex.



  • @danixdefcon5 said:

    Hey! My license is exactly that: it shows my name, and type of car I can drive. However, this is only the case for Mexico City; the other 31 states have the full address in the license. However, the Federal District licenses omit our address on purpose, as it has become common practice for muggers to use this information for a later break-and-entry.

    I fail to see how this is any different than a US license.  It has your name on it, right?  It has your photo and birthdate?  Then it's a photo ID that is accepted most places and it also states what vehicles you can drive.  Our licenses have our addresses on them because the US isn't a crime-ridden hellhole: criminals here wouldn't dare break into your house after mugging you lest they get splattered on the wall.  Still, most places don't accept the address from your license as proof of residence because it is not necessarily up-to-date.  It really just serves as a photo ID and driver's license.

     

    @danixdefcon5 said:

    We have something similar to "national ID card": the voter ID card. That one's recognized as an official ID nationwide... however it also includes your full address, so many of us keep it at home unless we need to do something requiring ID. For most of the situations, however, a driving license will be enough.

    A national ID?  For what?  I've never had anything that I needed a national ID for that a regular photo ID won't cover.  Unfortunately our braindead federal government has been trying to cram a national ID down our throats for years, but so far has not (technically) succeeded. 



  • @bstorer said:

    I'll take "Reasons I Don't Want to Live in Mexico City" for $1200, Alex.
     

    FTFY

    See also:

    @bstorer said:

    I'll take "Reasons I Mexicans Don't Want to Live in Mexico City" for $1200, Alex.

     

     



  • @bstorer said:

    @danixdefcon5 said:
    However, the Federal District licenses omit our address on purpose, as it has become common practice for muggers to use this information for a later break-and-entry.
    I'll take "Reasons I Don't Want to Live in Mexico City" for $1200, Alex.

    If you're ever going to visit Mexico City, be sure you pack your rectum with broken glass to give the sodomite rapists a surprise.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    How are US licenses any more forgeable than UK ones?  You could check for validity by making a phone call if it came to that.  It's not like a lot of Americans are going to travel to England are going to bother forging a license.

    Many US licences come with little to no security or security that is easily replicated. With the data protection act in place it's generally not as easy to just make a phone call. And as such on spot checks would mean a traffic jam if a driver holding an american licence came along, just so they could validate thier ID. And yes many americans do travel to europe with fake driving licenses (particularly those under 18 or students wishing to get into 'over 21's'/'over 23's' pubs/clubs. (and yes there are a hell of a lot of american students studdying here in cork alone. )



  • @Hitsuji said:

    Many US licences come with little to no security or security that is easily replicated.

    I call bullshit.  What features do UK licenses have that make them more difficult?  Have you ever even seen a US license or are you talking out of your ass?  It really just sounds like the UK cops are too dumb to be trusted with a task as difficult as checking a license.

     

    @Hitsuji said:

    With the data protection act in place it's generally not as easy to just make a phone call. And as such on spot checks would mean a traffic jam if a driver holding an american licence came along, just so they could validate thier ID.

    So police officers stop cars in them middle the the lane?  See above.

     

    @Hitsuji said:

    And yes many americans do travel to europe with fake driving licenses (particularly those under 18 or students wishing to get into 'over 21's'/'over 23's' pubs/clubs. (and yes there are a hell of a lot of american students studdying here in cork alone. )

    I'm sure UK teenagers never use fake IDs to buy booze, as well.  And students would be permanent residents so they should have to get a local license anyway.  I mean, who the fuck is going to forge a license for the purposes of driving?  Drinking and clubs I can see, but driving? 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    A national ID?  For what?  I've never had anything that I needed a national ID for that a regular photo ID won't cover.  Unfortunately our braindead federal government has been trying to cram a national ID down our throats for years, but so far has not (technically) succeeded.

    In europe:

    National ID will let you travel to other european countries, regular photo ID won't.

    National ID will get you a bank account, regular photo ID won't.

    National ID can be used for money transfer services such as Western Union, regular photo ID can't.

    National ID must be accepted as proof as age. regular photo ID can be refused.

     

    National ID effectively has much of the powers of a passport, without the cost of getting a passport. And can be carried around without the worry of losing a passport.



  • @Hitsuji said:

    In europe:

    National ID will let you travel to other european countries, regular photo ID won't.

    National ID will get you a bank account, regular photo ID won't.

    National ID can be used for money transfer services such as Western Union, regular photo ID can't.

    National ID must be accepted as proof as age. regular photo ID can be refused.

    Yes, I'm aware Europe is a fascist hellhole.  In the US, we seem to do fine without national ID cards. 



  • @Hitsuji said:

    In europe:

    National ID will let you travel to other european countries, regular photo ID won't.

    National ID will get you a bank account, regular photo ID won't.

    National ID can be used for money transfer services such as Western Union, regular photo ID can't.

    National ID must be accepted as proof as age. regular photo ID can be refused.

    In America: any government-issued photo ID lets you do everything, and national IDs can go to hell and die.



  • @bstorer said:

    In America: any government-issued photo ID lets you do everything, and national IDs can go to hell and die.
    I need to have just one government-issued ID - either a national ID card, a passport or driver's license. Some places will require you to have a proof of residence if you use driver's license though, since there's no address on driver's license.



  • @ender said:

    Some places will require you to have a proof of residence if you use driver's license though, since there's no address on driver's license.
     

    Why would they do that? You are surely carrying your large tree leaf that you use as a 'residence' on your back... isn't that proof enough?



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @ender said:

    Some places will require you to have a proof of residence if you use driver's license though, since there's no address on driver's license.
     

    Why would they do that? You are surely carrying your large tree leaf that you use as a 'residence' on your back... isn't that proof enough?

    You'd think fellow Slovenians would be able to confirm that he's one of them based upon smell alone.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I call bullshit.  What features do UK licenses have that make them more difficult?  Have you ever even seen a US license or are you talking out of your ass?  It really just sounds like the UK cops are too dumb to be trusted with a task as difficult as checking a license.

    I have seen many US licences and many fakes. Goes with the territory of studying in a college with many americans.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    So police officers stop cars in them middle the the lane?  See above.

    Not sure about UK but here in Ireland they can and do.

     @morbiuswilters said:

    I'm sure UK teenagers never use fake IDs to buy booze, as well.  And students would be permanent residents so they should have to get a local license anyway.  I mean, who the fuck is going to forge a license for the purposes of driving?  Drinking and clubs I can see, but driving?

    Again not sure about UK but here students don't forge IDs (particularly with the fact that if you are going to college then you are more than likely going to be over the legal age.) for those who are under the legal age it's simply the case of being restricted to a house party or else going 'gatting' and have someone else buy the drink for you.With very strict laws here(especially after so many pubs have been closed down for having under age drinkers) almost all pubs take a hard stand when it comes to ID and if they're ever unsure then they will refuse.

    As regards driving many ID's are forged for the purpose of getting a job that requires a driver's licence. (particlarly taxi-services where a taxi plate/licence can cost more than the price of a decent new car so many foreign nationals forge licenses so they can work with the same plate).



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Hitsuji said:

    Many US licences come with little to no security or security that is easily replicated.

    I call bullshit.  What features do UK licenses have that make them more difficult?  Have you ever even seen a US license or are you talking out of your ass?

    I don't know about UK licences, but at least the Texas driving license circa 1999 was a joke to forge. There were kids making credible forges for those who wanted to buy booze in El Paso. Stupid thing to do if you ask me, they could've just jumped into Juarez City as the legal drinking age in this country actually matches coming-of-age: 18.

    Granted, it has more to do with the state's DMV more than it has to do with the country as a whole; same thing happens here, where Mexico City licenses have been pretty secure for a while, but I do remember about 7 years ago that the Chihuahua state driver's license was even more of a joke to forge, as they still used frickin' typewriters & paper to do them.



  • @DrJokepu said:

    Actually, this is exactly why you can't drive a motor vehicle in the United Kingdom with an American driving licence:

    Really? When I went to England when I was younger, my father rented a car and drove it without any problems. I assume they asked him for a license. Is this a recent change? When I went to a UK territory as an adult, I rented a car and drove it (on the left-hand side of the road) and was only asked for my US license. That was less than 10 years ago. I'm just curious as I've never heard of that before, and didn't run into it myself.



  • @Hitsuji said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    So police officers stop cars in them middle the the lane?  See above.

    Not sure about UK but here in Ireland they can and do.

     

    So the police are just as drunk as the general population then?

     



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    So the police are just as drunk as the general population then?
    Drunker. You wouldn't want just any run-of-the-mill drunk carrying a weapon, would you?



  • @bstorer said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:
    So the police are just as drunk as the general population then?
    Drunker. You wouldn't want just any run-of-the-mill drunk carrying a weapon, would you?
     

    You do realize we have an unarmed police force don't you?



  • @Hitsuji said:

    I have seen many US licences and many fakes. Goes with the territory of studying in a college with many americans.

    You did not answer my question.  What makes a US license easier to forge?

     

    @Hitsuji said:

    Not sure about UK but here in Ireland they can and do.

    Is being drunk on the job a requirement to be a police officer in Ireland or will they waive it in cases of extreme mental retardation? 

     

    @Hitsuji said:

    Again not sure about UK but here students don't forge IDs (particularly with the fact that if you are going to college then you are more than likely going to be over the legal age.) for those who are under the legal age it's simply the case of being restricted to a house party or else going 'gatting' and have someone else buy the drink for you.With very strict laws here(especially after so many pubs have been closed down for having under age drinkers) almost all pubs take a hard stand when it comes to ID and if they're ever unsure then they will refuse.

    So basically none of these students are forging licenses for the purpose of driving.  Just like I fucking said.

     

    @Hitsuji said:

    As regards driving many ID's are forged for the purpose of getting a job that requires a driver's licence. (particlarly taxi-services where a taxi plate/licence can cost more than the price of a decent new car so many foreign nationals forge licenses so they can work with the same plate).

    So taxi drivers are forging the unforgeable Irish IDs and this is a reason to restrict Americans from driving.  Gotcha.



  • @Hitsuji said:

    You do realize we have an unarmed police force don't you?
     

    So they just engage in drunken slap fights if you resist arrest then?



  • @dcardani said:

    Really? When I went to England when I was younger, my father rented a car and drove it without any problems. I assume they asked him for a license. Is this a recent change? When I went to a UK territory as an adult, I rented a car and drove it (on the left-hand side of the road) and was only asked for my US license. That was less than 10 years ago. I'm just curious as I've never heard of that before, and didn't run into it myself.
     

    Sorry I am full of shit, you're right.

    Visitors can drive with a US driving licence, but after 12 months you need to get an UK licence. Normally they accept your previous foreign licence and exchange it to an UK one, but they cannot accept US ones because of the aforementionned reasons.



  • @Hitsuji said:

    You do realize we have an unarmed police force don't you?

    The Irish police: almost as effective as a stern glance! 



  • @DrJokepu said:

    Sorry I am full of shit, you're right.

    Visitors can drive with a US driving licence, but after 12 months you need to get an UK licence. Normally they accept your previous foreign licence and exchange it to an UK one, but they cannot accept US ones because of the aforementionned reasons.

    HA HA HA!  So basically Hitsuji is full of shit. 



  • @Hitsuji said:

    @bstorer said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:
    So the police are just as drunk as the general population then?
    Drunker. You wouldn't want just any run-of-the-mill drunk carrying a weapon, would you?
     

    You do realize we have an unarmed police force don't you?

    Really? Then how do you plan to stop crazed leprechauns? You can't just placate them with pots of gold.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    HA HA HA!  So basically Hitsuji is full of shit. 
     

    Wait... there was a doubt?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Hitsuji said:

    You do realize we have an unarmed police force don't you?

    The Irish police: almost as effective as a stern glance! 

    Yeah, but by taking guns out of the hands of their drunken police force, in the first year alone they cut down on accidental gun deaths by 95%.



  • @bstorer said:

    Really? Then how do you plan to stop crazed leprechauns? You can't just placate them with pots of gold.

    The whole damn country is crazed leprechauns.  Besides, they're all so weak from the frequent potato famines and ubiquitous alcoholism that there's no real threat of physical violence. 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @bstorer said:

    Really? Then how do you plan to stop crazed leprechauns? You can't just placate them with pots of gold.

    The whole damn country is crazed leprechauns.  Besides, they're all so weak from the frequent potato famines and ubiquitous alcoholism that there's no real threat of physical violence. 

    Sure, tell that to the IRA. I'm sure they're really frightened of the unarmed police force.



  • @bstorer said:

    Sure, tell that to the IRA. I'm sure they're really frightened of the unarmed police force.

    Oh no, the IRA was opposed by British military security forces carrying automatic rifles.  That doesn't count as an armed police force, though, right?


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