Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!
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Scaling up the Prime Video audio/video monitoring service and reducing costs by 90%
The move from a distributed microservices architecture to a monolith application helped achieve higher scale, resilience, and reduce costs.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
The move from a distributed microservices architecture to a monolith application
Well, that's not very enterprisy of them.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
Scaling up the Prime Video audio/video monitoring service and reducing costs by 90%
The move from a distributed microservices architecture to a monolith application helped achieve higher scale, resilience, and reduce costs.
I think I'm going to send that to our architect. Because they have the microservice brainworm and our use case doesn't fit it at all. Thankfully not serverless microservices, but...
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@Benjamin-Hall The way I think of it is the old categories of essential vs. accidental complexity. Microservices can make the individual sub-tasks you're working on simpler, but at the cost of increased complexity in communicating between the sub-tasks. (Which is what was killing Amazon here.) Because it's simply not possible to reduce essential complexity without changing the definition of the overall task to be done. So the only real benefit comes if your system has so much accidental complexity cluttering it up that rearchitecting into microservices accidentally reduces some of it along the way.
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Ok then. Microservices.
But monitor every stream? Upload images of defects? Then analyze them? Using the same comm channel that most likely causes defects in the first place (because all other issues point to hardware issues inside the delivery system and ought to be monitored with more appropriate systems)? How much defects are happening that it even makes sense to dedicate an entire system for it? What kind of data can even be obtained?
Or is it a bunch of overly clever fuckos that are appearing useful and have managed not to get fired in the latest round, because they could reduce the expenses considerably and pushed this Amazon toots their own horn piece?
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Remember, it's not a monolith, it's just a more well-rounded microservice.
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@Arantor Maybe it is a macroservice?
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@dkf I'm just waiting for that to be the new marketing fad.
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@Arantor said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@dkf I'm just waiting for that to be the new marketing fad.
"We're too big to fail!"
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@Arantor said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@dkf I'm just waiting for that to be the new marketing fad.
Continuing with the "serverless" nonsense is this before or after "serviceless"?
inb4: yes
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@Mason_Wheeler linked an article in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices! that said:
[…] temporarily uploads images to an Amazon Simple Storage Service (Amazon S3) bucket.
By the sound of it, that was probably the biggest bottleneck. But that isn't inherent in it being microservices, it is a limitation of the
serverless framework.This eliminated the need for the S3 bucket as the intermediate storage for video frames because our data transfer now happened in the memory.
Even it it happened over direct connection, it would already be way less overhead than temporarily pushing it out into a storage array. So the bigger part of the fix was switching to a proper service capable of using the most appropriate protocol.
But of course, being all in one process is most efficient. They don't say which language it's written in, but anything with a VM has considerable per-process overhead that can be saved by putting all the components—which are principally tightly coupled in this case anyway—in the same process.
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95% of all microservices are just distributed monolith, but with slower memory.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
95% of all microservices are just distributed monolith, but with slower memory.
With harder to follow flow and data control
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Splitting a video into images and then uploading those to an S3 bucket to be downloaded and processed elsewhere is somewhat less efficient than passing them from one step to the other in memory.
Whoda thunk.
Edith:
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@Carnage said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
With harder to follow flow and data control
And no ACID
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@sebastian-galczynski said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@Carnage said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
With harder to follow flow and data control
And no ACID
Microdosing has been a fad in Silly con valley for a long time, so I bet there's far too much acid.
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@sebastian-galczynski eventual consistency is web scale, didn’t you know?
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I don't really understand 80% of the things in there, but it still seems really
stupid.We designed our initial solution as a distributed system using serverless components (for example, AWS Step Functions or AWS Lambda), which was a good choice for building the service quickly. In theory, this would allow us to scale each service component independently. However, the way we used some components caused us to hit a hard scaling limit at around 5% of the expected load. Also, the overall cost of all the building blocks was too high to accept the solution at a large scale.
What a glowing endorsement of their AWS stuff.
The main scaling bottleneck in the architecture was the orchestration management that was implemented using AWS Step Functions. Our service performed multiple state transitions for every second of the stream, so we quickly reached account limits. Besides that, AWS Step Functions charges users per state transition.
Um, whatever the fuck a step function is ... I'm going to assume that's not real costs but just a retarded billing method. I mean, if this stuff isn't actually expensive in terms of infrastructure cost (ignorant assumption) but just creates large bills for Amazon, which is a nice profit to get out of outside customers, then this is just one Amazon division paying a large bill to another division without much real cost.
a microservice that splits videos into frames and temporarily uploads images to an Amazon Simple Storage Service (Amazon S3) bucket. Defect detectors (where each of them also runs as a separate microservice) then download images and processed it concurrently using AWS Lambda. However, the high number of Tier-1 calls to the S3 bucket was expensive.
Already mentioned several times, but holy fuck that's stupid. I mean, that's obviously stupid, right?
If all you have is a cloud, everything looks like a bucket?!Besides that, the conclusion of duplicating some parts to fit the rest in a single instace was surprising and interesting:
Our team regularly adds more detectors to the service and we already exceeded the capacity of a single instance. To overcome this problem, we cloned the service multiple times, parametrizing each copy with a different subset of detectors.
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@topspin said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
If all you have is a cloud, everything looks like a bucket?!
Yes, precisely that.The project I am currently working on has the
serverless microservices connected with kafkas by another name. Including some really pointless-looking steps. Pretty much exactly the same trap, but since the data volumes are nowhere near that big, it's not the bottleneck.
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I love IT shitheads who blindly follow trends instead of using the right too for the job. Like Mr. "We must use a NoSQL database!" for a task which relied on specific data and the relations between them. Literally the problem a relational database was made to solve. But no, must use NoSQL-like because Facebook be using it. Fuckhead.
It's like $company invents/uses a tool designed for their specific work. Other see $company is using the tool and also must use it, because if $company is, it must be the bestest! Not once stopping to think if it is the RIGHT tool for THEIR work.
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@Atazhaia Remember, "web-scale" does not mean "it's on the web, therefore we need a lot of scale." It means "the scale of this system is comparable to the entirety of the web itself."
It means Amazon. It means Facebook. It means Google, Twitter, Netflix, and other similarly immense projects.
It means something significantly larger than the needs of your project, which can be quite adequately handled by SQL.
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@sebastian-galczynski said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@Carnage said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
With harder to follow flow and data control
And no ACID
Hmm, good point, some research shows that spiders on LSD do make more regular webs, so it might help with the web-scale.
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@Bulb said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@topspin said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
If all you have is a cloud, everything looks like a bucket?!
Yes, precisely that.The project I am currently working on has the
serverless microservices connected with kafkas by another name. Including some really pointless-looking steps. Pretty much exactly the same trap, but since the data volumes are nowhere near that big, it's not the bottleneck.Now, in a serious tone, I have build an application using "serverless" (AWS Lambda) and "nosql" (AWS DynamoDB) and it works quite well and fits in the Free Tier, so it's basically running free (well, the ALB+cert has a basic price of $20, but it's totally worth it).
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@Kamil-Podlesak these things absolutely have a place, the trick is understanding the right place and when to use the tools and not just run for them because fad.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
some research shows that spiders on LSD do make more regular webs
I'm not sure I'd describe them as more regular. They look very similar to normal webs, except that the tangential component is less visible. This could be due to lighting, but it seems to be consistent across multiple photos. (There aren't a lot of photos to choose from. Most of the photos on the web are copies of the same one or two source images at various sizes, resolutions, qualities, distortions, etc.)
More interesting is the web under the influence of caffeine.
Status: Currently consuming caffeine.
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@HardwareGeek said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
More interesting is the web under the influence of caffeine.
Plants invented caffeine as a neurotoxin for arthropods (insects, but also spiders are arthropods).
The nervous system of arthropods is similar to the vertebrate nervous system, but not completely, so caffeine is more of a stimulant for us than a real neurotoxin.
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@BernieTheBernie Do you hear that? That's the sound of the neurotoxin emitters emitting neurotoxin.
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@Gustav said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
neurotoxin emitters emitting neurotoxin.
And taste-bud toxins, IMHO. I'll take
TYVM.
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@HardwareGeek Well done. Here are the test results: you are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: "a horrible person." We weren't even testing for that.
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@Gustav said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
you are a horrible person.
I know; those are tea bags, not loose-leaf tea. What can I say? The convenience is overwhelming; the
wins almost every time.
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@Gustav On the other hand, I'm sure @HardwareGeek will feel mentally invigorated by reflecting on some classical music
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
mentally invigorated by reflecting on some classical music
Perhaps. It depends on the mood of the music. However, given my mental state today (sleep deprived and suffering from a head cold), invigorated is going to be difficult.
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@Gustav
Since I identify as a true bug, caffeine ought to be expected to be a neurotoxin for me, not a stimulant.
HELP!
HELP! URGENZ!
HELP! URGENZ!
HELP! URGENZ!
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@Gustav said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@BernieTheBernie Do you hear that? That's the sound of the neurotoxin emitters emitting neurotoxin.
For the people who are Still Alive
E: goddamnit, that’s what you get for not reading the following posts first.
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@HardwareGeek said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@Gustav said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
you are a horrible person.
I know; those are tea bags, not loose-leaf tea. What can I say? The convenience is overwhelming; the
wins almost every time.Just so long as you do not adulterate it with sugar or (gasp) milk.
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@PleegWat Milk, no, unless I'm making masala chai. Not because I don't like milk in my tea, but I'd have to wash my mug every time I make a cuppa, lest the residue undergo unpleasant transformations, and
. Sugar, unfortunately no; now I have to use stevia (or some artificial sweetener 
) instead.
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@HardwareGeek said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@Kamil-Podlesak said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
some research shows that spiders on LSD do make more regular webs
I'm not sure I'd describe them as more regular. They look very similar to normal webs, except that the tangential component is less visible. This could be due to lighting, but it seems to be consistent across multiple photos. (There aren't a lot of photos to choose from. Most of the photos on the web are copies of the same one or two source images at various sizes, resolutions, qualities, distortions, etc.)
More interesting is the web under the influence of caffeine.
Status: Currently consuming caffeine.
https://wibble.fbmac.net/how-different-drugs-consumed-by-spiders-affect-their-webs
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@sockpuppet7 said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@HardwareGeek said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@Kamil-Podlesak said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
some research shows that spiders on LSD do make more regular webs
I'm not sure I'd describe them as more regular. They look very similar to normal webs, except that the tangential component is less visible. This could be due to lighting, but it seems to be consistent across multiple photos. (There aren't a lot of photos to choose from. Most of the photos on the web are copies of the same one or two source images at various sizes, resolutions, qualities, distortions, etc.)
More interesting is the web under the influence of caffeine.
Status: Currently consuming caffeine.
https://wibble.fbmac.net/how-different-drugs-consumed-by-spiders-affect-their-webs
Lastly, we tried mushrooms. The spiders consumed mushrooms and started creating their webs. The webs were like nothing we had seen before. The webs were incredibly colorful and seemed to be alive, almost like they were dancing. This was the most entertaining drug we had tested.
Ego dissolution is a common thing on mushrooms but it's rare for a lab animal's self to fuse with that of the experimenter. Clearly, further research is needed.
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@LaoC said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
Clearly, further research is needed.
... on the influence of the drugs taken by the experimenter who observes the test animals...
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@BernieTheBernie said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
... on the influence of the drugs taken by the experimenter who observes the test animals...
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Since we were originally talking about Amazon Cloud: do you know that it is easy to "steal" the entire S3 domain?
Jonty Wareing (@jonty@chaos.social)
Attached: 1 image It turns out you can simply serve a file from a domain to use it as your bsky handle. So this guy is now S3. All of S3.
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@HardwareGeek said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
The move from a distributed microservices architecture to a monolith application
Well, that's not very enterprisy of them.
Enter her, I barely know her.
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@HardwareGeek said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@Gustav said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
neurotoxin emitters emitting neurotoxin.
And taste-bud toxins, IMHO. I'll take
TYVM.Eww.. that's like Earl Grey but without the bergamot oil.
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@HardwareGeek said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@PleegWat Milk, no, unless I'm making masala chai. Not because I don't like milk in my tea, but I'd have to wash my mug every time I make a cuppa, lest the residue undergo unpleasant transformations, and
. Sugar, unfortunately no; now I have to use stevia (or some artificial sweetener ) instead.Or you could like train your tastebuds to not require sugar. Plus lemon makes the tea taste much better
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@BernieTheBernie said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
Since we were originally talking about Amazon Cloud: do you know that it is easy to "steal" the entire S3 domain?
Jonty Wareing (@jonty@chaos.social)
Attached: 1 image It turns out you can simply serve a file from a domain to use it as your bsky handle. So this guy is now S3. All of S3.
Eh...sounds like you can "steal" the domain on BlueSky (Jack Dorsey's follow up to twitter).
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@dangeRuss said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@HardwareGeek said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
@PleegWat Milk, no, unless I'm making masala chai. Not because I don't like milk in my tea, but I'd have to wash my mug every time I make a cuppa, lest the residue undergo unpleasant transformations, and
. Sugar, unfortunately no; now I have to use stevia (or some artificial sweetener ) instead.Or you could like train your tastebuds to not require sugar. Plus lemon makes the tea taste much better
Is this like a theoretical smart-assery or a real suggestion?
Yes, I could train my taste buds NoT tO rEqUiRe SuGaR
, but the reality is I'm fucking addicted and sugar is the only joy on my life.
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@topspin said in Even Amazon can't make sense of microservices!:
Is this like a theoretical smart-assery or a real suggestion?
Well, it's from @dangeRuss, so it's obviously
smartdumb-assery that he thinks is a real suggestion.
