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Oracle Java licensing refit means price hikes, say expert
As per employee model replaces old subscription, user bills could soar
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What happens to NFTC?
I think that "per staff" pricing model only applies to applications that distributes Java as part of it.
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As usual, RMS
has predicted that for decades. Also, why don't people just run OpenJDK?
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@topspin said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
Also, why don't people just run OpenJDK?
It's my understanding that you pay to license some components that the JDK doesn't (didn't?) have. We're still running Java 8, which is only supported in OpenJDK, so that's where we are.
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@boomzilla said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@topspin said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
Also, why don't people just run OpenJDK?
It's my understanding that you pay to license some components that the JDK doesn't (didn't?) have. We're still running Java 8, which is only supported in OpenJDK, so that's where we are.
Also there are COTS products that are only supported by the vendor on Oracle Java. We have some of those and accordingly have a ULA for Java.
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@topspin said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
As usual, RMS
has predicted that for decades. Also, why don't people just run OpenJDK?Usually expensive security patches for EOL versions. Sometimes you come across an Oracle
hackfeature that the enterprise software is dependant on. I heard, but never seen, that some companies stipulate no open source. Oracle is one of the few that fulfill that stipulation.
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@DogsB said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
some companies stipulate no open source. Oracle is one of the few that fulfill that stipulation.
a company with 250 employees, 20 Java Desktop Users and eight Java Installed Processors would pay $3,000 a year on the old model, which grows to $45,000 a year under the new subscription, a 1,400 percent increase.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Only people using it have to pay.
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@LaoC said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
Only people using it have to pay.The new license statement disagrees with you: "The quantity of the licenses required is determined by the number of Employees and not just the actual
number of employees that use the Programs"
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@topspin said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
As usual, RMS
has predicted that for decades. Also, why don't people just run OpenJDK?Or Amazon Corretto, for those who absolutely have to have a big brand name.
Also: even without RMS and Stallman, Oracle has been know to sell
for the price of its weight in goldplatinum for decades now.I mean, seriously, every single time I see how shitty and expensive Oracle DB is, I have to wonder... how do one get to demand more money than freaking IBM (DB2 is clearly superior and cheaper)???
Which reminds me... I haven't tried IBM JDK for a long time, I wonder if they are still good. Used to be the way to go in JDK4 times (JIT run circles around anything Sun had) and quite good int JDK5/6 times (very nice GC features, especially for production use and forensic analysis).
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@robo2 said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@LaoC said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
Only people using it have to pay.The new license statement disagrees with you: "The quantity of the licenses required is determined by the number of Employees and not just the actual
number of employees that use the Programs"I was just trolling @boomzilla who otherwise likes to celebrate the Citizens United ruling that "companies are people". The company uses Java, the company pays. How much the company has to pay … something something freedom, contracts, something. The market will sort it out. At most another 45 years and Oracle is done.
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@robo2 said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@LaoC said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
Only people using it have to pay.The new license statement disagrees with you: "The quantity of the licenses required is determined by the number of Employees and not just the actual
number of employees that use the Programs"Can't have a US employee and an Indian employee (who never work at the same time) share a license.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
I mean, seriously, every single time I see how shitty and expensive Oracle DB is, I have to wonder... how do one get to demand more money than freaking IBM (DB2 is clearly superior and cheaper)???
Which reminds me... I haven't tried IBM JDK for a long time, I wonder if they are still good. Used to be the way to go in JDK4 times (JIT run circles around anything Sun had) and quite good int JDK5/6 times (very nice GC features, especially for production use and forensic analysis).Remember how everybody knew that IBM was shitty and expensive? When they had the market share? IBM ain't the Salvation Army either and they will just do the same thing if they think they can get away with it.
It's the business cycle:- be good
- be known as the guys who are good
- gain market share
- switch to sabotaging everybody else by being a complete asshole
- be known as the complete asshole that everybody has to pay anyway because lock-in.
It's the development equivalent of what Cory Doctorow calls "enshittification" with regards to social media.
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@LaoC said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@robo2 said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@LaoC said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
Only people using it have to pay.The new license statement disagrees with you: "The quantity of the licenses required is determined by the number of Employees and not just the actual
number of employees that use the Programs"I was just trolling @boomzilla who otherwise likes to celebrate the Citizens United ruling that "companies are people".
With the rise of ChatGPT I may have to revise that most obvious observation. Also, I totally
on that troll, which makes me sad.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
I mean, seriously, every single time I see how shitty and expensive Oracle DB is, I have to wonder... how do one get to demand more money than freaking IBM (DB2 is clearly superior and cheaper)???
Apparently, the full Oracle Java builds include some fancy features for analysing the resource consumption of production processes. I tried out early versions of them a long time ago (while hunting a awful memory leak that turned out to be due to bad interactions between thread local variables, thread pooling in the app server, and the way class loaders worked in that version of Java) and they were neat but not something I'd spend a lot on if I didn't absolutely have to. Any old OpenJDK works just fine for what I do these days.
Oracle need to buy a herd of goats so their execs can go and give the goats blow jobs on a weekly basis.
Which reminds me... I haven't tried IBM JDK for a long time, I wonder if they are still good. Used to be the way to go in JDK4 times (JIT run circles around anything Sun had) and quite good int JDK5/6 times (very nice GC features, especially for production use and forensic analysis).
They've got a release stream called Semeru. It's apparently optimized for reduced memory and fast startup. That's all I know about their current offerings. (The old version for 1.4 was the best at supporting Websphere, but it really didn't keep up with the way that the world evolved.)
More details here (and linked from there) but be careful; what they say about Jakarta EE is flat wrong (it's mainly a spec and the implementations like Spring Boot are migrating to it).
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@dkf said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
They've got a release stream called Semeru.
Wiktionary says it's Japanese for "to attack, assault, blame, scold, pester or torment".
Sounds like a good name for a Java distro.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
the price of its weight in
goldplatinum for decades now.Gold has been more expensive than platinum for about the last 7-ish years.
This shows the recent history better, except that the prices appear to be plotted to
different scales:
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@PleegWat said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
Can't have a US employee and an Indian employee (who never work
at the same time) share a license.
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@dkf said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@Kamil-Podlesak said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
I mean, seriously, every single time I see how shitty and expensive Oracle DB is, I have to wonder... how do one get to demand more money than freaking IBM (DB2 is clearly superior and cheaper)???
Apparently, the full Oracle Java builds include some fancy features for analysing the resource consumption of production processes. I tried out early versions of them a long time ago (while hunting a awful memory leak that turned out to be due to bad interactions between thread local variables, thread pooling in the app server, and the way class loaders worked in that version of Java) and they were neat but not something I'd spend a lot on if I didn't absolutely have to.
Yeah, that's actually the thing where IBM JDK proved to be very useful at version 1.5 (unlike the Sun/Oracle JDK of the time).
Oracle need to buy a herd of goats so their execs can go and give the goats blow jobs on a weekly basis.
Which reminds me... I haven't tried IBM JDK for a long time, I wonder if they are still good. Used to be the way to go in JDK4 times (JIT run circles around anything Sun had) and quite good int JDK5/6 times (very nice GC features, especially for production use and forensic analysis).
They've got a release stream called Semeru. It's apparently optimized for reduced memory and fast startup. That's all I know about their current offerings. (The old version for 1.4 was the best at supporting Websphere, but it really didn't keep up with the way that the world evolved.)
Yeah, I know it exists, but haven't tried it. Unlike 1.3 and 1.4, when I actually used IBM JDK almost exclusively even without WebSphere (the JIT was superior almost by an order of magnitude).
@LaoC said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@Kamil-Podlesak said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
I mean, seriously, every single time I see how shitty and expensive Oracle DB is, I have to wonder... how do one get to demand more money than freaking IBM (DB2 is clearly superior and cheaper)???
Which reminds me... I haven't tried IBM JDK for a long time, I wonder if they are still good. Used to be the way to go in JDK4 times (JIT run circles around anything Sun had) and quite good int JDK5/6 times (very nice GC features, especially for production use and forensic analysis).Remember how everybody knew that IBM was shitty and expensive? When they had the market share? IBM ain't the Salvation Army either and they will just do the same thing if they think they can get away with it.
Yeah,
- how did we get to the point where Oracle is much worse?Also, as I've said, IBM sometimes actually does have something to offer for its prices and shitty practices, but I haven't seen anything from Oracle yet.
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@HardwareGeek said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@Kamil-Podlesak said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
the price of its weight in
goldplatinum for decades now.Gold has been more expensive than platinum for about the last 7-ish years.
TIL
Is that a bubble?
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
I haven't seen anything from Oracle yet.
The main thing you see from Oracle is a per-employee bill.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@HardwareGeek said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
@Kamil-Podlesak said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
the price of its weight in
goldplatinum for decades now.Gold has been more expensive than platinum for about the last 7-ish years.
TIL
Is that a bubble?Hard to say. It's mostly underpinned by the uncertain market, and gold being seen as a safe way to store value. If I were a betting man, I'd say that the prices will eventually converge again, but if that'd be by platinum going up or gold down, is say both.
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@Carnage said in Use? Don't use? Just pay.:
platinum going up or gold down, is say
bothyes.FTFTDWTF
