It has started
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There seems to be some gas leaking from Nord Stream II:
Pressure in the Nord Stream 2 undersea gas pipeline from Russia to Germany dropped from 105 to 7 bars overnight
Who are the Bag Guys TM behind that action?
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@BernieTheBernie said in It has started:
There seems to be some gas leaking from Nord Stream II:
Pressure in the Nord Stream 2 undersea gas pipeline from Russia to Germany dropped from 105 to 7 bars overnight
Who are the Bag Guys TM behind that action?
As long as the gas was just sitting in there, who cares? Russians probably figured there are quite a few m³ stupidly sitting in that pipe that they might as well sell elsewhere if Germany isn't going to open its end anyway, so they dropped the pressure just far enough to be in balance with water pressure.
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@LaoC But the Nord Stream 2 is actually some 200m below surface at some points. And water pressure increases 1 bar for every 10 meters. So there should be 20 bars for it to be balanced with the water. Now there's less pressure inside than outside.
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@acrow said in It has started:
@LaoC But the Nord Stream 2 is actually some 200m below surface at some points. And water pressure increases 1 bar for every 10 meters. So there should be 20 bars for it to be balanced with the water. Now there's less pressure inside than outside.
I didn't know it was that deep, just guessed 70m sounded realistic for a pipeline through the Baltic. But yeah, someone official today said it was a leak and they figured sabotage from Ukraine or a Russian false flag, both of which are fucking stupid tbh.
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@LaoC International politics are stupid, yes.
But so was the whole pipe project. It was always an ongoing gamble and a liability. The only way for it to have been anything but, the buyers in Europe would have needed their own gas fields ready to produce when the Russian supply was eventually cut. And we knew that it will be cut. If not by Putin, then by the turmoil that is bound to follow after Putin is gone.
ETA:
So, to sum up, the pipe was a hot enough potato that anyone could have wanted it gone. So speculation about sabotage and who might have done it are patently useless until something more concrete shows up.
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Just read somewhere that Denmark found a couple of leaks in both Nord Stream I and II near their coast...
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@BernieTheBernie Same. So it could be sabotage after all. ...Or it could be an old sea mine. No-one knows until someone goes down to see what's up.
Does your news say how far the leaks are from each other? Like, tens of meters or a half a sea mile?
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@acrow What about a Swedish fishing boat?
They are known to have caught some russian submarines as a by-catch in the past...
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Who gives a shit if anyone sabotages an empty pipeline?
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@topspin probably people who want to use the pipeline in the future.
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@boomzilla so it was the CIA?
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@MrL said in It has started:
Polish coal sector is an infuriating clusterfuck. It should be privatized to the ground decades ago.
It'd be a good idea to privatize the bits below ground too if you're doing that,
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So we can at least add a beautiful picture of a Big Bubble. In this case, a methane bubble:
taken from the article in the FAZ newspaper (in german):
TFA says that authorities detected detonations just before the pressure fell. The leaks are some 70 m below sea level, so there's the reason for 7 bar.
Even if Germany wanted to subdue to Russia's views somewhen in the winter in order to get fresh gas, well, no chance anymore.
with these big leaks in the pipeline, Russia can safely (at least from a russian point of view - but the area of the leaks is closed for ships because of safety reasons) dispose of surplus methane. Which in turn is a very potent climate gas - 86 times the value of CO2 - and climate change is good for siberia.
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@BernieTheBernie A Dutch article interprets this as a possible threat against undersea pipelines from natural gas production facilities in the North Sea.
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@BernieTheBernie said in It has started:
So we can at least add a beautiful picture of a Big Bubble. In this case, a methane bubble:
\o/ The earth is not flat any more!
with these big leaks in the pipeline, Russia can safely (at least from a russian point of view - but the area of the leaks is closed for ships because of safety reasons) dispose of surplus methane. Which in turn is a very potent climate gas - 86 times the value of CO2 - and climate change is good for siberia.
If "it makes the ground explode all over the place" counts as "good", then yes.
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@BernieTheBernie said in It has started:
and climate change is good for siberia.
[Citation Needed] - AFAIK most of it would just become swamp. Of course, with large-scale irrigation project, the swamp could become good fertile land... but that is not something Russia needs (it already has hardly enough people to work the land it has). OTOH, this would be very valuable to China. ^2
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in It has started:
@BernieTheBernie said in It has started:
and climate change is good for siberia.
[Citation Needed] - AFAIK most of it would just become swamp. Of course, with large-scale irrigation project, the swamp could become good fertile land... but that is not something Russia needs (it already has hardly enough people to work the land it has). OTOH, this would be very valuable to China. ^2
That reminds me, the “I hate irish winters” crowd should be out in force soon in Ireland praying for climate change. Something about not liking being wet. The funny thing is, according to most models, Ireland would end up with Russian winters. There’s a warm current that shuts down if it gets too hot.
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@DogsB said in It has started:
That reminds me, the “I hate irish winters” crowd should be out in force soon in Ireland praying for climate change. Something about not liking being wet. The funny thing is, according to most models, Ireland would end up with Russian winters. There’s a warm current that shuts down if it gets too hot.
Newfoundland would be a better comparison. Ireland will still be next to a lot of water.
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@dkf Alaska's near a lot of water and it used to get genuine Russian winters.
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@boomzilla Yes, but then the Russians sold it to the USA.
But seriously, there are several factors there. One of them is whether there are lots of high mountains about and a huge continental interior (as that drives prevailing wind directions). Another is what the sea currents are doing (warm currents move a lot of energy around). And of course there's how far north things are. These interact in complicated ways. The big question about Irish (and all the rest of NW Europe too, all the way up to well north of the Arctic circle) climate is what will happen with the warm water coming out of the Gulf of Mexico; that will remain a great source of heat for a long time to come (Central America makes sure of that). In theory it could go more up the US/Canadian coast, but Coriolis effects make that a bit unlikely, and it could end up going further south on the east side of the Atlantic (which would be really bad news for Norway, but probably not so bad for Ireland).
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@dkf said in It has started:
@DogsB said in It has started:
That reminds me, the “I hate irish winters” crowd should be out in force soon in Ireland praying for climate change. Something about not liking being wet. The funny thing is, according to most models, Ireland would end up with Russian winters. There’s a warm current that shuts down if it gets too hot.
Newfoundland would be a better comparison. Ireland will still be next to a lot of water.
Cold water, is the thing. Iceland is entirely next to a lot of water, as is Tierra del Fuego.
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@topspin said in It has started:
@boomzilla so it was the CIA?
CIA: there may be attacks on the pipelines.
Biden: we will put an end to Nordstream.
Don’t expose our plans!
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@Gribnit said in It has started:
Cold water, is the thing. Iceland is entirely next to a lot of water, as is Tierra del Fuego.
So too is Greenland, but in that case you've got a big enough ice cap to really make a difference to the weather patterns.
My point was that that hot water in the Gulf is still going to go somewhere, though that might end up further south (with who knows what effect on the Sahara and Spain). It's likely that Ireland will remain not too cold; it's mountains simply aren't that high or its landmass that great for it to have anything other than a maritime climate, and even if it shifts a bit it will still be definitely damp. Ireland is also very much not at the most northerly extent of that climate zone in the north-east Atlantic area (that's a few hundred miles further north).