Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?
-
@remi said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@acrow said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
I really don't know why most games take forever to load myself...
Really?...
From the few games that actually tell what they're doing, I've noticed the following:
"Decompressing resources"
"Generating mipmaps"
"Compiling shaders"Some games do much more than that:
I liked when Hearthstone had the message "filling progress bar."
-
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@cvi how many shaders are we typically talking about, and how large/complicated are they?
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile. Most aren't that complicated, but, for example, it can compile some dozen or so for each game object depending on expected card features and whether dynamic lighting is being used or not (to name a few situations). If I was being thorough and just making it cool cook all of them (overnight) it takes many hours to get through them all.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
it takes many hours to get through them all.
By which time both players might have logged off?
-
@loopback0 said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
it takes many hours to get through them all.
By which time both players might have logged off?
No, because that's build time, the dev is at home. Players haven't even entered the picture yet.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@loopback0 said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
it takes many hours to get through them all.
By which time both players might have logged off?
No, because that's build time, the dev is at home. Players haven't even entered the picture yet.
-
@loopback0 said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@loopback0 said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
it takes many hours to get through them all.
By which time both players might have logged off?
No, because that's build time, the dev is at home. Players haven't even entered the picture yet.
Natch
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
Players haven't even entered the picture yet.
An accurate assessment of Hypatia.
-
@Gąska said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
Players haven't even entered the picture yet.
An accurate assessment of Hypatia.
Sad, but true.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile.
How many shaders does a single user end up loading under average conditions?
-
@cvi said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile.
How many shaders does a single user end up loading under average conditions?
A very small fraction of that, I assume.
-
@cvi said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
How many shaders
can a shady shader shade if a shader would only shade in the shade?
-
@cvi said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile.
How many shaders does a single user end up loading under average conditions?
None.
-
@HardwareGeek said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@cvi said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile.
How many shaders does a single user end up loading under average conditions?
None.
The horse beats itself!
-
@Tsaukpaetra because there's nobody else on the server.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@cvi how many shaders are we typically talking about, and how large/complicated are they?
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile. Most aren't that complicated, but, for example, it can compile some dozen or so for each game object depending on expected card features and whether dynamic lighting is being used or not (to name a few situations).
I assume nobody wrote half a million shaders.
Why does every single object have its own shader? I thought the same shader(s) gets used for many objects.
-
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
I assume nobody wrote half a million shaders.
Why does every single object have its own shader? I thought the same shader(s) gets used for many objects.Why do you think AAA games cost so much to make?
-
@dkf said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
I assume nobody wrote half a million shaders.
Why does every single object have its own shader? I thought the same shader(s) gets used for many objects.Why do you think AAA games cost so much to make?
Hookers and blow?
-
T minus 420. Newegg still hasn't tweeted any special link like the one 2 weeks ago. I'm slightly worried. But only slightly.
-
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
I assume nobody wrote half a million shaders.
Why does every single object have its own shader? I thought the same shader(s) gets used for many objects.@Tsaukpaetra hinted at that above. The million shaders are, at a guess, largely generated from a few ones, just for different configurations (support X? limit Y?; see something like gpuinfo for a list of features/limits per device). But in the end, each user will only ever load/run a small subset of those shaders, picked by whatever their hardware supports.
Switching shaders/pipelines used to be very expensive. That might be better these days, but attempting something like one shader per object would not be good for performance. To put it mildly.
So, yes, a single shader gets used for a large number of objects.
-
@HardwareGeek said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@cvi said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile.
How many shaders does a single user end up loading under average conditions?
None.
0/0 is indeterminate, not 0.
-
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@cvi how many shaders are we typically talking about, and how large/complicated are they?
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile. Most aren't that complicated, but, for example, it can compile some dozen or so for each game object depending on expected card features and whether dynamic lighting is being used or not (to name a few situations).
I assume nobody wrote half a million shaders.
Why does every single object have its own shader? I thought the same shader(s) gets used for many objects.I don't think a single shader was actually written (read: coded with shader language). They're generated by the engine.
I assume it later comes around and unique-ifies them, but until they're compiled I guess it can't tell what object might be using the same shader?
I don't write game engines, I just hack inside their guts.
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@cvi how many shaders are we typically talking about, and how large/complicated are they?
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile. Most aren't that complicated, but, for example, it can compile some dozen or so for each game object depending on expected card features and whether dynamic lighting is being used or not (to name a few situations).
I assume nobody wrote half a million shaders.
Why does every single object have its own shader? I thought the same shader(s) gets used for many objects.I don't think a single shader was actually written (read: coded with shader language). They're generated by the engine.
I assume it later comes around and unique-ifies them, but until they're compiled I guess it can't tell what object might be using the same shader?
I don't write game engines, I just hack inside their guts.Also due to SIMD they probably don't parametrise very well.
-
@PleegWat said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@topspin said in Anyone with 3rd gen Ryzen to borrow?:
@cvi how many shaders are we typically talking about, and how large/complicated are they?
On a clean (ie first time building and cooking the game on this machine) there are typically about a half million shaders to compile. Most aren't that complicated, but, for example, it can compile some dozen or so for each game object depending on expected card features and whether dynamic lighting is being used or not (to name a few situations).
I assume nobody wrote half a million shaders.
Why does every single object have its own shader? I thought the same shader(s) gets used for many objects.I don't think a single shader was actually written (read: coded with shader language). They're generated by the engine.
I assume it later comes around and unique-ifies them, but until they're compiled I guess it can't tell what object might be using the same shader?
I don't write game engines, I just hack inside their guts.Also due to SIMD they probably don't parametrise very well.
Oh that's another thing, in order to make the material allow parameterization the whole thing has to be modified and some things don't like that. I can't remember what happens but every time I need to add a parameter the whole thing has to rejigger itself for all the shaders it uses...
