There's no P in hamster...
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@boomzilla said in There's no P in hamster...:
@DogsB said in There's no P in hamster...:
@remi said in There's no P in hamster...:
@levicki said in There's no P in hamster...:
@remi said in There's no P in hamster...:
My dog knows very well that I don't want her to eat shit.
You might want to supplement her diet with some vitamins. Also, taking dog out for a walk when it is sated instead of hungry helps.
I know, and I've tried various things, with little success (it was worse when she was younger, though). Ultimately the main factor is that she's a Lab and is therefore always, always hungry. This is not a figure of speech, it's been shown that Labs are missing some genes about satiety and they are literally always hungry (they share this trait with a couple of other breeds such as retrievers, and ours is a cross between a lab... and a retriever!). That was (indirectly) selected for over the years as this makes them very eager to learn (any edible treat will get you their full attention). It's also what makes labs so prone to becoming obese, and we're literally weighting the food we give her to keep her in shape.
It's kind of sad when you think about it but... that's how it is!
On the bright side we get videos like this out of them!
Reminds me of this:
That was the most boring funny video I've seen in a long time. Exactly what I expected from a TV show.
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@Gąska you may have forgotten to take your ADHD meds this morning.
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@boomzilla understanding-of-American-humor meds too, it seems.
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@TimeBandit said in There's no P in hamster...:
@dfdub said in There's no P in hamster...:
And you're the one who has the power to Jeff things.
The power yes, but the will 
*has the will but no power*
*Turns off*
Bzzt!
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@Rhywden said in There's no P in hamster...:
@boomzilla said in There's no P in hamster...:
@Rhywden said in There's no P in hamster...:
Your original argument was that positive reinforcement was a problem.
I read it as saying that was the P-girl's problem. More specifically, that she got lots of positive reinforcement but no (or very little) negative reinforcement, especially from her parents, who probably went out of their way to keep people like teachers from correcting that imbalance. It seems pretty likely.
Then you jumped on him for stating it in a more general way (which criticism I agree with) and therefore apparently missing the original point completely, turning the thread into a retarded morass of pendantic dickweedery instead of making fun of the stupid girl. Which is surely what some people prefer, but meh.
Negative reinforcement isn't quite what you make it out to be and is actually the root of problems in the case of helicopter parents - "negative" has a different meaning in this case: It's not a "bad" thing but it merely means: "Taking away something".
Example: Your kid throws a snit over not wanting to eat its vegetables. You promptly take away the offending vegetables (the "negative" part). Thus the kid has promptly learned that throwing a tantrum will remove those vegetables and will be more likely to do so in the future (the "reinforcement" part).
In short: Not letting your kid deal with the frustration of failure but removing all impediments is negative reinforcement.
I don’t think Wikipedia completely agrees with you on that. Or rather, this general description
Negative reinforcement occurs when the rate of a behavior increases because an aversive event or stimulus is removed or prevented from happening.
seems to agree with you, while this example doesn’t:
Example: Person A forgets to say thank you to person B. Everytime person A forgets, person B sprays person A with a spray bottle. Eventually, Person A will no longer forget to thank person B. The negative reinforcer is spray of the bottle.
There’s two likely explanations for that, namely me not understanding the example correctly or Wikipedia itself not being fully consistent about its usage.
This seems to be more positive punishment than negative reinforcement. But really, as someone not versed in psychology those concepts seem to be pretty dual to me. The difference between rewarding behavior A and punishing behavior (not A), and vice versa, is just where you define the neutral baseline to be:
Are you punishing someone (adding negative stimulus) for forgetting, or are you negatively reinforcing (removing the negative stimulus) for not forgetting? Same thing, really.
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@topspin said in There's no P in hamster...:
Example: Person A forgets to say thank you to person B. Everytime person A forgets, person B sprays person A with a spray bottle. Eventually, Person A will no longer forget to thank person B. The negative reinforcer is spray of the bottle.
There’s two likely explanations for that, namely me not understanding the example correctly or Wikipedia itself not being fully consistent about its usage.
This seems to be more positive punishment than negative reinforcement. But really, as someone not versed in psychology those concepts seem to be pretty dual to me. The difference between rewarding behavior A and punishing behavior (not A), and vice versa, is just where you define the neutral baseline to be:
Are you punishing someone (adding negative stimulus) for forgetting, or are you negatively reinforcing (removing the negative stimulus) for not forgetting? Same thing, really.I think that example needs to be looked at backwards for that definition to work. The "reinforcement" isn't the SPRAY, it's the LACK of the spray on the times they do it right that's the reinforcement.
Which just equates to punishment, yes.
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@boomzilla said in There's no P in hamster...:
turning the thread into a retarded morass of pendantic dickweedery instead of making fun of the stupid girl. Which is surely what some people prefer, but meh.
:why_not_both.xml:
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While there is no P in hamster, there is a ρ in χάμστερ.
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@topspin said in There's no P in hamster...:
There’s two likely explanations for that, namely me not understanding the example correctly or Wikipedia itself not being fully consistent about its usage.
The example is wrong. It's something our professor made us do several times because it's easy to get wrong.
Because you're taking an action to suppress an unwanted behaviour - I'd label it as positive punishment.
Negative reinforcement is more passive - you don't introduce the stimulus yourself or if you do, it's not something which can be easily defined as a "punishment".
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@HardwareGeek said in There's no P in hamster...:
While there is no P in hamster, there is a ρ in χάμστερ.
there's no π in χάμστερ
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@PJH "hampster" a hipster who lives in Hemel Hempstead.
