Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@topspin said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
- Why did you join the EU in the first place if being in it isn’t advantageous?
Note that significant time has elapsed. So what was a good deal then might not be such a good deal now. In part because the countries themselves have changed and in other part because the union they joined initially has changed significantly and taken on more directorial control.
Re the latter: the members ratified those changes, too.
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@topspin said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Benjamin-Hall One other important thing is that a foundational principle of legislatures is that no legislature can bind a future one by ordinary lawmaking, including treaties. What one vote does, another must be able to undo. The body that joined the EU was not the same one as currently is deciding to leave it, so no charges of hypocrisy or such can be sustained. Idiocy, maybe. But "you joined it so you have to stay" doesn't apply.
So we're saying the EU is the roach motel of international organizations?
Ugh. I expected you to have enough classical taste to at least do Hotel California.
I have too much sense of humor for that though. Also, California isn't in Europe. Jeez, and they say US Americans need more maps!
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@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Also, California isn't in Europe.
It could be - there's a space available soon.
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@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Also, California isn't in Europe.
Politically, it very well could be.
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Are you saying the capitalist western Europe wouldn't exist without EU?
Are you trying to get all causes and consequences mixed up?
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@Luhmann I'm trying to understand what's so essential about EU that nothing could prevent yet another war in Europe if it didn't exist.
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
I'm trying to understand what's so essential about EU that nothing could prevent yet another war in Europe if it didn't exist.
Keeps the Germans busy
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@Gurth said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
they see themselves as representing, of even defending, their country rather than their part of Europe.
Good! I'm a little surprised, though, to learn they're not all stupid-crazy.
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@dkf said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
we appear to be not operating in a world comprised entirely of sanity.
Welcome to Earth. What is the purpose of your visit?
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@admiral_p said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
because in the long game borders are like those between New York and New Jersey.
lolnope. New York and New Jersey understand that they are not independent countries with independent foreign affairs autonomy.
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@pie_flavor His point is that the EU's long-term plan is that eventually France, Germany, Italy, etc. will also become and understand that they are not independent countries with independent foreign affairs autonomy.
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@HardwareGeek It's funny how they try to copy the surface-level aspects of the USA without really understanding why we're successful.
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Where NATO prevents military clashes, EU prevented economic ones. They started with coal and steel and one of the main goals was to create an environment where European production would thrive. Second subject was nuclear technology. Cooperation to catch up with other countries and the assurance that focus was on non-military applications. It is no coincidence that European cooperation was kickstarted by the Marshall plan setup. It distributed funds but stipulated that receiving countries divided the funds on their own.
First goal was to anker axis countries with the allied countries and allow both to flourish economically because the heavy economical sanctions after the first world war where seen as a seed for the second one. Later the same ideas fueled expansion of existing organisations to accept Portugal, Spain and Greece.
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@HardwareGeek said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@pie_flavor His point is that the EU's long-term plan is that eventually France, Germany, Italy, etc. will also become and understand that they are not independent countries with independent foreign affairs autonomy.
Not really. German Supreme Court has already declared that German law is above EU law, for example.
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@HardwareGeek said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@pie_flavor His point is that the EU's long-term plan is that eventually France, Germany, Italy, etc. will also become and understand that they are not independent countries with independent foreign affairs autonomy.
Not really. German Supreme Court has already declared that German law is above EU law, for example.
Constitutional law is above regular law. Where EU law is ratified only as regular law, German constitution needs to trump it, nothing surprising. However, there have been cases where German supreme court has forwarded decisions to EU courts / waited on parallel decisions from EU courts (don't remember which, or both).
Constitutions can be changed, if that were so desired.
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@pie_flavor said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@HardwareGeek It's funny how they try to copy the surface-level aspects of the USA without really understanding why we're successful.
Well, we haven't had our intra union wars over how it's supposed to work yet.
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@Rhywden said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Rhywden EU hasn't been necessary for that.
Right.
The reason there haven't been major European wars in the last 70-odd years is called "nuclear bomb" and especially "being in the middle between the Yankees and the Commies". Both NATO (and the Warsaw Pact) and the EU descend from this.
The first war on European soil? After the dissolution of Yugoslavia, after the dissolution of the USSR.
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@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@topspin said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Benjamin-Hall One other important thing is that a foundational principle of legislatures is that no legislature can bind a future one by ordinary lawmaking, including treaties. What one vote does, another must be able to undo. The body that joined the EU was not the same one as currently is deciding to leave it, so no charges of hypocrisy or such can be sustained. Idiocy, maybe. But "you joined it so you have to stay" doesn't apply.
So we're saying the EU is the roach motel of international organizations?
Ugh. I expected you to have enough classical taste to at least do Hotel California.
I have too much sense of humor for that though. Also, California isn't in Europe. Jeez, and they say US Americans need more maps!
Oh, there's plenty, but most of them seem to be leaving soon.
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Huh, I never thought of this. What a dick move on EU's part.
It's not really the EU's fault.
First the UK voted for something they didn't understand, then they claimed they understood it, but "remoaners" were sabotaging it, and they're quite happy to leave without a deal.
The EU has even said "you don't have to leave" even after UK signed article 50 (which is a posh way of saying "we're leaving").
The UK will (probably) choose a no-deal brexit because leaving the EU has become like a religion, and the UK will sacrifice everything for it.
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@Shoreline said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Huh, I never thought of this. What a dick move on EU's part.
It's not really the EU's fault.
Breaking the sacred rule of "don't mess with existing domains, even if they break your new revised terms and conditions"? That's entirely EU's fault.
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@topspin said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
The only real deal-breaker is the Ireland question.
No. There are others too (about a dozen in total IIRC; I'm surely not going to list them here) but until the Ireland question is sorted, those are moot.
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@dkf said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
There are others too
Like giving Gibraltar back to Spain?
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Shoreline said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Huh, I never thought of this. What a dick move on EU's part.
It's not really the EU's fault.
Breaking the sacred rule of "don't mess with existing domains, even if they break your new revised terms and conditions"? That's entirely EU's fault.
It's still a consequence of "there are no agreements to the contrary, this is the default state". Besides, it's not even a blip on the radar compared to the rest of the clusterfuck of "doesn't work without an agreement".
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@Luhmann said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@dkf said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
There are others too
Like giving Gibraltar back to Spain?
Yes. That was another one. There was a stage when I wondered whether the French would ask for Jersey, Guernsey and Sark.
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@dkf said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Luhmann said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@dkf said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
There are others too
Like giving Gibraltar back to Spain?
Yes. That was another one. There was a stage when I wondered whether the French would ask for Jersey, Guernsey and Sark.
Keep them.
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@topspin said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Shoreline said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Huh, I never thought of this. What a dick move on EU's part.
It's not really the EU's fault.
Breaking the sacred rule of "don't mess with existing domains, even if they break your new revised terms and conditions"? That's entirely EU's fault.
It's still a consequence of "there are no agreements to the contrary, this is the default state".
There's no agreement needed. It can be unilateral decision by EURid.
Besides, it's not even a blip on the radar compared to the rest of the clusterfuck of "doesn't work without an agreement".
Still a dick move.
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@Gąska I wonder if people travelling the IRL/NI border everyday consider any of this "a dick move".
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@topspin anyway closing the borders isn't as nearly an issue as it seems. it may be if you cross the Russia-Estonia border. But the Italy-Switzerland border is more or less quickly cleared. Of course it's a nuisance.
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@admiral_p said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
anyway closing the borders isn't as nearly an issue as it seems
That depends on what agreements are in place. When a country flounces off in a huff from all those things, it stands to reason that the default rules kick in; those require a full and extensive border control regime.
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@topspin said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska I wonder if people travelling the IRL/NI border everyday consider any of this "a dick move".
That's just what happens when there's no agreement
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@admiral_p said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
But the Italy-Switzerland border is more or less quickly cleared. Of course it's a nuisance.
I have different experience with this, for which I fully blame Italian customs, but that's a story for another day.
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@topspin said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska I wonder if people travelling the IRL/NI border everyday consider any of this "a dick move".
That's just what happens when there's no agreement
Exactly.
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@topspin glad we agree. So now let's go back to the topic of a completely different situation of EURid unilaterally deciding to kick out existing British domain owners when they could unilaterally decide to let them stay.
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@admiral_p said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@topspin anyway closing the borders isn't as nearly an issue as it seems. it may be if you cross the Russia-Estonia border. But the Italy-Switzerland border is more or less quickly cleared. Of course it's a nuisance.
Tsk. The RoI/NI border being open-and-totally-transparent is an integral part of the Good Friday Agreement, as I understand the issue (to say nothing of everyday life in the area being structured as if it will be open), and if the border hardens even one iota, all Heck will break loose. Nobody on either side of the border wishes to reawaken the sleeping dragon formerly known as the Provos. Well, nobody sane, anyway.
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@topspin glad we agree. So now let's go back to the topic of a completely different situation of EURid unilaterally deciding to kick out existing British domain owners when they could unilaterally decide to let them stay.
I'm fine with them kicking out British domain holders, given that's how the domain has always worked (to my knowledge). I think it's hilarious that EU citizens in Britain are getting kicked out, too, but as a lazy administrator I can see why that's an easy out for them.
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@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@topspin glad we agree. So now let's go back to the topic of a completely different situation of EURid unilaterally deciding to kick out existing British domain owners when they could unilaterally decide to let them stay.
I'm fine with them kicking out British domain holders, given that's how the domain has always worked (to my knowledge).
Nope. Domains have always worked such that existing domain owners get to renew their existing domains no matter what.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@admiral_p said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@topspin anyway closing the borders isn't as nearly an issue as it seems. it may be if you cross the Russia-Estonia border. But the Italy-Switzerland border is more or less quickly cleared. Of course it's a nuisance.
Tsk. The RoI/NI border being open-and-totally-transparent is an integral part of the Good Friday Agreement, as I understand the issue (to say nothing of everyday life in the area being structured as if it will be open), and if the border hardens even one iota, all Heck will break loose. Nobody on either side of the border wishes to reawaken the sleeping dragon formerly known as the Provos. Well, nobody sane, anyway.
Yeah, well, of course, Ireland is a shit show.
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@PleegWat said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
TIL. Despite living in California (almost) my entire life, I never knew there so many other Californias.
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@HardwareGeek said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@PleegWat said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
TIL. Despite living in California (almost) my entire life, I never knew there so many other Californias.
Tends to be a safe bet. I only knew about the one in Mexico before I checked.
It was a case of wikipedia to the rescue though - google maps is completely pointless for looking for things that share names with very well known places, even though they've got the data.
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Shoreline said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Huh, I never thought of this. What a dick move on EU's part.
It's not really the EU's fault.
Breaking the sacred rule of "don't mess with existing domains, even if they break your new revised terms and conditions"? That's entirely EU's fault.
No terms and conditions have been revised. The .eu domain was created from the start with a very specific purpose: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/the-top-level-domain-.eu . By leaving the EU, the UK does not fit the raison-d'etre of the .eu domain anymore. Quoting from the site:
For citizens: the .eu TLD is a place in cyberspace where their rights as consumers and individuals are governed by European rules and standards.
Car Analogy: It's like joining a Ford owners club with your Ford Fusion. Then replacing it with a Mazda, leaving the club and complaining that you can't put a picture of your Mazda on the website of the club where there used to be the picture of your Ford Fusion. "But a picture of my car has always been on your site!"
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@topspin said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Rhywden said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Rhywden said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Rhywden said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@admiral_p said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Nothing will happen, stay calm all of youse. The EU doesn't really want to play hard ball with the UK, because that would be extremely counterproductive in this climate (where half of the Union is suspicious or outright despises the Union). The moment the UK is in deep shit is when the Eurosceptics start rallying against the inhumane imperialistic Union (and they would have a point). On the other hand, the UK does not want a hard Brexit so they will scramble to put a deal on the table.
Actually, it's the other way around: Brexit is the best advertisment for why idiotic Nationalism à la Orban is suicide. And that's why they will play hardball.
That sounds...circular.
Not really. Nationalists of all kinds always want their cake and eat it alone. This will show those morons exactly what happens when they get what they want.
What will show them? You haven't broken the circle at all here. "And that's why they will play hardball" implies that there's something other than the hardball going on.
You have yet to show that there's a circle. So spare us your condescending tone.
The circle in question is "we're screwing over UK because they're leaving" and "leaving is bad because you get screwed over".
- Show how the EU is screwing over the UK. Note: not getting whatever you want is not being screwed over.
- Why did you join the EU in the first place if being in it isn’t advantageous?
That why is well explained in this documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFBgQpz_E80
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@admiral_p said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@topspin anyway closing the borders isn't as nearly an issue as it seems. it may be if you cross the Russia-Estonia border. But the Italy-Switzerland border is more or less quickly cleared. Of course it's a nuisance.
Now try it with a semitrailer full of assorted goods. It’s probably easier than it was, say. 30–40 years ago, but getting rid of freedom of movement treaties will quickly result in things being back to how it was back then. Every border crossing worth the name will have a checkpoint, large car parks populated with trucks waiting their turn to have their papers examined, spot checks on non-trade traffic (or, if you’re unlucky, checking everyone today), crossing the border at some minor road resulting in being stopped by any local police who happen to notice you …
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@Gurth Italy-Switzerland works just "fine" (with some nuisance but it works). Thousands of Italians work in Switzerland because it pays much better, and there certainly is trade between the two countries. With the small difference that NI can get its stuff from Britain and trade volumes between NI and Eire, I'll expect, are comparatively negligible. It can be done.
Plus all it takes is governments tacitly encouraging border police not to be too strict. Of course this can change according to governments but as you (or somebody else) said, there is the huge spectre of the IRA, the PIRA and all the others looming over NI.
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@admiral_p Of course it can be done, but there will always be hassle to some degree because each country will want to enforce its own import/export regulations. Go ask any older truck drivers you might know whether they think crossing borders in the EU are better or worse now than it was in the 1980s — I suspect I know the answer, though.
As for “all” it takes is that the government tells the border guards to be less strict: of course it works that way, but only if the government wants that to be the case. Can you imagine right-wing, “own people first” populists wanting to have lax border checks?
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@bjolling said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Shoreline said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Huh, I never thought of this. What a dick move on EU's part.
It's not really the EU's fault.
Breaking the sacred rule of "don't mess with existing domains, even if they break your new revised terms and conditions"? That's entirely EU's fault.
No terms and conditions have been revised.
They were. CBA to dig through metric tons of legalese and preambles to find out what exactly has changed, but something has changed. Whether it's related to Brexit or not I'm not sure, but the timing - especially relative to EURid announcements about Brexit - suggests it is.
The .eu domain was created from the start with a very specific purpose: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/the-top-level-domain-.eu . By leaving the EU, the UK does not fit the raison-d'etre of the .eu domain anymore. Quoting from the site:
For citizens: the .eu TLD is a place in cyberspace where their rights as consumers and individuals are governed by European rules and standards.
Explain Norway then.
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Explain Norway then.
They've reached an agreement to permit it. Totally different to if a government decides to fuck off without an agreement.
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@dkf so it's not that it cannot be done - it's that it wasn't done.
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@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
so it's not that it cannot be done - it's that it wasn't done.
Yes. Probably linked to the point blank refusal to allow the ECJ any kind of jurisdiction over the agreement, which meant that remaining in the Single Market was impossible.
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@dkf haven't heard of that, and can't google up anything meaningful. Was it rejection by UK side or by EU side, and what does it even mean in this context?
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@bjolling said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@topspin said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Gąska said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Rhywden said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Rhywden said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@boomzilla said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@Rhywden said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
@admiral_p said in Do .EU have a domain registered in the UK? .EU may not have long to reregister it elsewhere...:
Nothing will happen, stay calm all of youse. The EU doesn't really want to play hard ball with the UK, because that would be extremely counterproductive in this climate (where half of the Union is suspicious or outright despises the Union). The moment the UK is in deep shit is when the Eurosceptics start rallying against the inhumane imperialistic Union (and they would have a point). On the other hand, the UK does not want a hard Brexit so they will scramble to put a deal on the table.
Actually, it's the other way around: Brexit is the best advertisment for why idiotic Nationalism à la Orban is suicide. And that's why they will play hardball.
That sounds...circular.
Not really. Nationalists of all kinds always want their cake and eat it alone. This will show those morons exactly what happens when they get what they want.
What will show them? You haven't broken the circle at all here. "And that's why they will play hardball" implies that there's something other than the hardball going on.
You have yet to show that there's a circle. So spare us your condescending tone.
The circle in question is "we're screwing over UK because they're leaving" and "leaving is bad because you get screwed over".
- Show how the EU is screwing over the UK. Note: not getting whatever you want is not being screwed over.
- Why did you join the EU in the first place if being in it isn’t advantageous?
That why is well explained in this documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFBgQpz_E80That is eye opening.