Using Google Chat without "logging in to Chrome"
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@ben_lubar Mine doesn't have the crossed out Browse button. Smells like some kind of group policy thing.
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@mikehurley How do I prevent Chrome from syncing everything between when I log in and when I open that settings window?
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@ben_lubar said:
@blakeyrat that's not my screenshot. I'm not named Diane.
Diane L, that is obviously not the default configuration of Word. So all that screenshot says is that perhaps there's some configuration that disables the Browse button for some reason. It says nothing about Word drawing the open dialog wrong because it doesn't even picture the open dialog.
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@blakeyrat That I don't remember (and what I suggested you try playing with at home, should be quick). I thought it prompted you for sync settings at first login, but I just don't remember. Then again, I may have thought to look into those settings once I saw all my personal (and unhelpful at work) bookmarks show up. Or maybe my work ones showed up at home...
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At the risk of being helpful in a General Help thread, there's a whole host of XMPP clients listed here: https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html
There's quite a few choices for Windows. Based on a cursory glance, it seems Miranda NG is a good candidate; I've not used it myself, but its predecessor was pretty popular.
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@RaceProUK said:
There's quite a few choices for Windows. Based on a cursory glance, it seems Miranda NG is a good candidate; I've not used it myself, but its predecessor was pretty popular.
Hm possibly. I wish I had more assurance that XMPP and Google Hangouts are the same thing-- there seems to be some conflicting information out there.
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@blakeyrat said:
@Choonster said:
This creates a shortcut on your desktop that opens the website in a separate application-style Chrome window (i.e. no navigation or bookmarks bars). This doesn't require signing in to Chrome.
Right; but Google Hangouts isn't a website, it's a browser extension. So either I'm confused or you are.
I got slightly confused between the Gmail website and the Hangouts extension/application.
Would using Gmail's Hangouts interface work for you? It appears to be separate from Chrome's sign-in.
You can create an application-style shortcut for Gmail so it opens in its own window.
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You don't have to log in to the browser to sign in to Gmail.
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@Captain We've already covered that above. He wants an app independent or at least unaffected by the browser closing.
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@Choonster said:
Would using Gmail's Hangouts interface work for you? It appears to be separate from Chrome's sign-in.
That's what I'm doing now. It sucks.
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@Captain said:
You don't have to log in to the browser to sign in to Gmail.
I know. That's what I'm doing now.
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Those saying "use an XMPP client", even that might not work right.
Hangouts uses some form of XMPP for its videochats, but implementation for its contacts and sending messages is wonky at best.
See the following:
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@blakeyrat said:
I wish I had more assurance that XMPP and Google Hangouts are the same thing-- there seems to be some conflicting information out there.
I did a little Googling, and it appears that they are not the same thing; Hangouts dropped XMPP support a couple of years back… sort of. It might be possible to use a third-party XMPP client, but it won't be a secure connection.
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@RaceProUK said:
I did a little Googling, and it appears that they are not the same thing; Hangouts dropped XMPP support a couple of years back… sort of. It might be possible to use a third-party XMPP client, but it won't be a secure connection.
Right; that's the same thing I'm finding.
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@blakeyrat said:
. I wish I had more assurance that XMPP and Google Hangouts are the same thing
Google Talk is XMPP, which is the text part of the Hangouts. As far as I know the video part is not, so you have to use their thing if you want that.
@RaceProUK said:
Based on a cursory glance, it seems Miranda NG is a good candidate
Miranda is a client for people who prioritise customisability, being light on resources and support for multiple protocols. It requires a degree of patience and takes a bit of time to configure, so probably not a good choice here.
@RaceProUK said:
Hangouts dropped XMPP support a couple of years back… sort of. It might be possible to use a third-party XMPP client, but it won't be a secure connection.
It supports secure connections just fine.
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@CatPlusPlus said:
Google Talk is XMPP, which is the text part of the Hangouts. As far as I know the video part is not, so you have to use their thing if you want that.
I want a fucking Google Hangouts client, not a "some tiny bits of Google Hangout that might work I guess but won't be reliable or secure" client. Jesus people.
If there isn't one, (and it looks like there is not), just say so.
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@RaceProUK said:
But not secure XMPP connections
I've used third party clients since forever, and they all talk XMPP. It's fine.
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@CatPlusPlus For fuck's sake…
You can have an XMPP connection.
You can have a secure connection.
But you cannot have a secure XMPP connection!
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@blakeyrat said:
I want a fucking Google Hangouts client, not a "some tiny bits of Google Hangout that might work I guess but won't be reliable or secure" client. Jesus people.
There is one, it's called "a browser"
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@blakeyrat said:
"some tiny bits of Google Hangout that might work I guess but won't be reliable or secure"
There are no problems with reliability or security here, video connections just use a different proprietary protocol.
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@RaceProUK said:
You can have an XMPP connection.
You can have a secure connection.
But you cannot have a secure XMPP connection!Except that I'm telling you that you can, and I do, unless you're using a different meaning of 'secure connection' than everyone else.
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@CatPlusPlus said:
There are no problems with reliability or security here, video connections just use a different proprietary protocol.
Right but if a person says they want Google Hangouts, why are you hearing that as "some of the features of Google Hangouts, not all of them, and I'm going to implicitly make this assumption without even informing the asker that I made it".
Do you understand why that is annoying to me?
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@CatPlusPlus Then explain this XMPP article that clearly states that you cannot have a secure XMPP connection
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@blakeyrat Yes, since you see only Hangouts and not its bits and pieces. The fact is some parts use standardized things (like IM using XMPP) and other parts don't (like video being their thing). That means nobody is going to be able to make a full Hangouts replacement client. Although I thought Google had a library for their video stuff.
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@RaceProUK said:
Then explain this XMPP article that clearly states that you cannot have a secure XMPP connection
It's about federation (aka s2s), i.e. server-to-server communication in the larger XMPP network (it works like mail: you can run your own XMPP server on service-a.org and talk to people on the server running on service-b.com). Google did kill that part, but it doesn't apply to communication to or within Google infrastructure.
Client connections (aka c2s) still work fine, and they support encryption just fine.
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@e4tmyl33t Google Talk was xmpp compatible, google hangouts is not. XMPP was officially discontinue several years ago as a valid way to use hangouts (Same time as google talk got killed) - Google hangouts ties with google.com/voice - and if you sign in to google it automatically creates a google hangouts account. It sucks because you can't assign multiple google accounts to the same hangouts user, so if you actually use google.com/voice you have to switch profiles if you want to use the web interface. (Log in to your account, associate a second account and switch between the two)
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@ben_lubar
To be honest: when using SharePoint and OneDrive fB this screen does make it easier but everybody else is screwed.
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@CatPlusPlus said:
Google did kill that part, but it doesn't apply to communication to or within Google infrastructure.
And third-party clients are not in the Google infrastructure, so they can't use secure XMPP.
And remember: this thread is about Google Hangouts. As in the Google that killed secure XMPP support.
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@blakeyrat said:
Right but if a person says they want Google Hangouts, why are you hearing that as "some of the features of Google Hangouts, not all of them, and I'm going to implicitly make this assumption without even informing the asker that I made it".
Because I'm aware that there is more than one protocol at play here, which is why I said you can use third party client for text (because XMPP doesn't do video or audio), but not for video.
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@Matches Trust me, I know all this all too well, since I use my GVoice number as the number I give to work people instead of my direct cell number.
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You could use BlueStacks App Player
then install HangoutsIf you REALLY don't want to use a browser.
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@RaceProUK said:
And third-party clients are not in the Google infrastructure, so they can't use secure XMPP.
And remember: this thread is about Google Hangouts. As in the Google that killed secure XMPP support.
Sigh. Clients are not servers. When you're connecting to Google's XMPP endpoint, you're not connecting to the s2s component. It doesn't apply to you.
And I've said it like twice already: I do connect to Google Hangouts over XMPP with an encrypted connection. It demonstrably works.
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@CatPlusPlus Really? Then how about actually explaining how, instead of acting like some smug twat?
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@CatPlusPlus said:
And I've said it like twice already: I do connect to Google Hangouts over XMPP with an encrypted connection. It demonstrably works.
Do you have full functionality? Can you start a text conversation, transition it to a video call, end the video call and go back to text, without having to start separate "conversations"?
Hell, what about other features? What about Roll20 integration, or launching a hangout from Slack?
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Ok, I have Pidgin connected to Google RIGHT NOW. It works. Also:
Yes, it uses the secure connection. It prompted me to accept the certificate and everything.
EDIT: Ummm, I told you to reply to TOPIC, not @RaceProUK, WTF NodeBB?
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@Onyx But does it have all the features?
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@mikehurley said:
We've already covered that above. He wants
an app independent or at least unaffected by the browser closingsomeone to wipe his ass for him.
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@e4tmyl33t No, video doesn't go through XMPP. Signalling might, I don't know, but the conversation itself requires their client. Though all my text threads are listed as one conversation per contact in the Hangouts client, so I don't think it should create separate ones.
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@CatPlusPlus said:
Because I'm aware that there is more than one protocol at play here, which is why I said you can use third party client for text (because XMPP doesn't do video or audio), but not for video.
Right; but I'm not asking how to use "bits of" Google Hangouts in a stand-alone client, I'm asking how to use Google Hangouts in a stand-alone client. The level of your technical knowledge isn't relevant.
You honestly can't tell the difference?
And I don't even mind the assumption that I'm only referring to the text chat bits, what bothers me is that you made that assumption implicitly, without even telling me you were working under that assumption.
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@RaceProUK I only used it for text chat ever. It might be that video/voice won't work, though it's doable through XMPP Google messed with it from what I read.
If you want all of the features I think that the web client is probably the only option on desktop. I admit I completely forgot about that initially since I never used it myself...
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@CatPlusPlus So you finally admit that you cannot use Hangouts with secure XMPP; at best, you can use bits of it.
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@RaceProUK The "secure" thing is a complete red herring here. I said from the start that XMPP is for text. Only text. Nothing else. You cannot do video over XMPP, either secure or insecure.
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@CatPlusPlus said:
@RaceProUK The "secure" thing is a complete red herring here. I said from the start that XMPP is for text. Only text. Nothing else. You cannot do video over XMPP, either secure or insecure.
Ok I don't want to insert myself into your bickering here, but I again point out: I never asked for "only text". You assumed that. Implicitly.
It seems what I want doesn't exist. Which is fine. But this conversation would have been a heck of a lot shorter if you or anybody had just said, "it doesn't exist" instead of going into this discussion about XMPP as if I gave a shit about implementation details like that. (Protip: I do not.)
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@blakeyrat said:
Right; but I'm not asking how to use "bits of" Google Hangouts in a stand-alone client, I'm asking how to use Google Hangouts in a stand-alone client. The level of your technical knowledge isn't relevant.
You asked for confirmation that Hangouts is XMPP. I said that Hangouts is more than one thing, and XMPP is one of those things. The only implicit assumption I made is that I can say that to a programmer and not explain what that precisely means.
I'll remember to not do that in the future.
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@CatPlusPlus said:
You asked for confirmation that Hangouts is XMPP.
I actually did not. Go check.
But whatever. This thread is useless to me.
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@CatPlusPlus said:
You asked for confirmation that Hangouts is XMPP.
He asked for a desktop Hangouts client:
@blakeyrat said:
How do I use Google Chat/Hangouts in its own window without "signing in" to a browser?
As for whether Hangouts is XMPP:
@CatPlusPlus said:
I said that Hangouts is more than one thing, and XMPP is one of those things.
In other words, no.
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@blakeyrat said:
They have one in Android, iOS and even WindowsPhone. Just not actual Windows. (Looks like they canned the WinPhone version too.)
One of those things is not like the others, one of those things does not belong...
(hint: They do everything browser-based on desktop, and make mobile apps native)
XMPP
