My new 4k monitor-- God I wish I had taken notes while setting up this thing
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I stream netflix in a win8 app on one screen while gaming on the other all the time!
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I should possibly try again. The monitor is still sitting there doing nothing... dunno if I want to back to that misery though :P
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It depends on how miserable the game's fullscreen transition is. Something like Civ5? No effort at all. But some games will just never work.
I don't know how they get it so wrong.
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The amount of heartache just trying to get two fullscreen programs working on two different screens...
Really? I do that constantly.
It depends on how miserable the game's fullscreen transition is. Something like Civ5? No effort at all. But some games will just never work.
Most games worth playing now have "Fullscreen Windowed" mode.
Even ones that don't, like Skyrim, generally respond to alt-tab... uh... mostly. Skyrim crashes maybe 1-in-20 alt-tabs.
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The amount of heartache just trying to get two fullscreen programs working on two different screens
I've had fullscreen streaming on a TV and a fullscreen game on my main monitor before, with no hassle at all. But then I haven't tried many games while also fullscreen streaming.
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I know many do, but that mode has issues. I'd rather they just did what Sid Meyer and any OpenGL game does, and just alt-tab correctly, rather than restarting DirectX on every monitor. Another game that does it right: Deus Ex: HR
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I think 1 outta 4 games I tried would actually work as I'd
expecthope in fullscreen.That fullscreen windowed thing is definitely best but I don't think I had it on the games I was trying.
I mean, I know it SHOULD work, I know it DOES work for others, but for SOME goddamn reason, it was just crapping out on me. That goes back to the "hating computers" thing. I could see no logical reason what was going wrong. Just have two different things filling two different screens!
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I know many do, but that mode has issues.
Like what issues?
The only one I can think of is the game can't control it's own gamma in the old-fashioned way.
I'd rather they just did what Sid Meyer
I always play Sid Meyer game in windowed mode, personally.
and any OpenGL game does, and just alt-tab correctly, rather than restarting DirectX on every monitor.
Wow, you've played a VERY different set of OpenGL games than I have.
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The best I've seen is Heroes of Newerth. In DirectX mode, it alt-tabs horribly and destroys the universe. Set it to OpenGL, no issues. I assume this is because OpenGL has no need to do anything with DirectX. Other games, like Awesomenauts and Warsow have never exhibited any issues alt-tabbing. But so many games never reopen, or just crash immediately.
Like what issues?
Generally performance-related. I have a 980, so that doesn't matter too much in my case.
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@dstopia said:
Also aren't most films still 24 FPS?
I believe that is the case, yes
@dstopia said:I've only seen The Hobbit in 48 FPS
Same here. It's really weird watching at that framerate; I get a sort of 'hyperreal' vibe from it, like it's too smooth…Hmm, I see nested quotes are only partially working.
Anyway, AIUI, during projection, the shutter is opened twice for each frame, so the motion is 24 FPS, but the flicker is 48 FPS, and this has been done for quite a few years.
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And these are all of the reasons that no one around here seems to want a shiny new monitor, even if you give them away. The idea of a nice new 4K screen for my workstation sounds neat in theory, but the DPI issues just aren't worth it.
Windows doesn't correct for DPI when you're moving the mouse between screens. This means that if I move the mouse from my 4k screen anywhere below the 50% mark, it will not appear on the 1080p screen. If I move it from the 50% mark, it'll appear on the 1080p screen at the 100% mark. This behavior is amazingly broken and so obviously wrong I was shocked to discover it. (Sure that matches the control panel's diagram of the monitors, but the actual real life monitors are ALMOST IDENTICAL IN PHYSICAL SIZE! It's only the DPI that's different!)
Oh nice, so just like Linux then.
Actually, at one point there was a dead zone. Now in a newer OS version I have an area at the bottom of my higher DPI screen where the mouse won't go right to the next monitor. I have to bring the mouse up about 1/4 of the screen and then go right to jump down to the bottom of the next one. As you mentioned, when you look at the physical screens, it looks like the mouse is jumping down/up as crosses.
I wouldn't even notice it so bad if the dead zone was on top instead of on the bottom (the bottom of the monitor sits on a desk, you know... so that should be the reference point where they line up.)
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Like what issues?
Depending on what video is decoding and the video software itself sometimes I get performance issues on the main monitor with another video opened fullscreen in a second monitor. For example, I don't have any performance issues whatsoever with the YouTube player at 1080p, but I will have framerate drops with GiantBomb's shitty flash player in full screen.
I haven't done much testing with MPC/VLC and different encodings but what little I tried streaming from Twitch and whatnot has worked more or less flawlessly.
Also my video card is old and I get framerate drops on the video showing in the secondary monitor no matter what, but I'm pretty sure that's a combination of my crappy old VGA monitor and a fairly old video card. Strangely enough, if I use that monitor as a main display, video works flawlessly with no drops. I'm not ready to blame Windows on that one, but it's kinda weird and what little googling I've done has turned up nothing.
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The idea of a nice new 4K screen for my workstation sounds neat in theory, but the DPI issues just aren't worth it.
If you can afford the $1800 to buy TWO monitors and supporting GPUs, I'd still recommend it. It is REALLY NICE when it's working. Even upscaled apps like Skype and Steam don't look so bad that they stand-out.
But given the choice between two monitors or one REALLY NICE monitor, I'll take the two monitors.
Now in a newer OS version I have an area at the bottom of my higher DPI screen where the mouse won't go right to the next monitor. I have to bring the mouse up about 1/4 of the screen and then go right to jump down to the bottom of the next one.
1/4th of the screen I could manage I think. With the 4k next to a standard 1080p, it's fully half the screen, it's REALLY weird and makes it nearly impossible to track the mouse cursor properly.
But like I said, it's such an OBVIOUS problem I'm literally shocked Microsoft (or NVidia, which is hooked into the OS at a low-enough level to solve this) has no solution for it.
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Please let it be a resolution higher in height than 16:9
Still miffed that there are no cheap 16:10 monitors.
That and 16:10 monitors don't actually show more than 16:9 in some games (looking at you Dota 2)
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Dota and Starcraft are in the 'seeing more is unfair' boat. It's dumb, but that's the reasoning. Most FPS games don't have a problem with it, but most of them have really dumb FOV restrictions, like maxing out at 90 instead of 160.
(Admittedly I can't play above 140, but that's BESIDE THE POINT!)
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16:9, being the lower resolution, should see less, not 16:10. You shouldn't be penalized by using a larger screen.
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They force you to see the same amount of the map so that you won't get those extra pixels of data that will win you the match.
No, I agree, it's dumb reasoning.
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They force you to see the same amount of the map
Except you don't. You literally see less left to right with 16:10 or 4:3.
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Wow. Well done, Valve. But that's what you get for playing Casual Gaming: Unlimited Rageworks.
Blizz just stretches things.
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Can you not zoom out in that game?
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For anybody following-along at home:
I tried putting the new 4k monitor on the left side, so I could use it as my main monitor and also my gaming monitor only to find out that, unlike my vastly cheaper and older Dell 1080p monitor, this one has no audio-out jack! (Despite having a HDMI plug.) WHAT THE FUCK! Ok now I do have something to criticize Dell for.
It has 3 USB 3.0 ports, because God knows USB hubs belong in monitors, but zero audio-out jacks. Despite the HDMI standard basically REQUIRING a monitor to have an audio-out jack. WHY!?
So anyway I've now officially given up, I'm running the beautiful 4k monitor at 1080p and connecting it via HDMI as if I just bought a really fucking expensive 1080p monitor.
Windows 10 better fix this shit.
EDIT: I also found this hugely helpful page on Microsoft's site: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3016516
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You can zoom in, but zooming out is limited.
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Actually, at one point there was a dead zone. Now in a newer OS version I have an area at the bottom of my higher DPI screen where the mouse won't go right to the next monitor. I have to bring the mouse up about 1/4 of the screen and then go right to jump down to the bottom of the next one. As you mentioned, when you look at the physical screens, it looks like the mouse is jumping down/up as crosses.
I wouldn't even notice it so bad if the dead zone was on top instead of on the bottom (the bottom of the monitor sits on a desk, you know... so that should be the reference point where they line up.)
Sounds like you have something set up askew like this:
Line up one next to the other, no space in between (space = dead zone).
I didn't realize I had it so good on my (work) Windows 7/nVidia laptop setup. I rarely have a problem, even with different monitor sizes - but I don't use 4k monitors or any of the blazingly new stuff, either.
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no space in between (space = dead zone).
Can't do that, monitor sizes don't appear the same...
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You cannot zoom out further unless you're a spectator.
And zoom in isn't as much just zoom in as zoom and tilt the camera down to get a first person view, i.e. it's useless after the first level of zoom or so.
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This I understand:
This is doing it wrong (or just trolling yourself):
This is
(and what I was referring to when talking about the dead zone between monitors):
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I didn't realise Windows even allowed the latter
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You cannot zoom out further unless you're a spectator.
And zoom in isn't as much just zoom in as zoom and tilt the camera down to get a first person view, i.e. it's useless after the first level of zoom or so.
Maybe trick your game by making your monitor resolution 16:5 (or something your eyes can still handle)?
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But why, then everything looks shitty.
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I didn't realise Windows even allowed the latter
TBH, I don't think it's supposed to. Usually it "snaps to" the side of the other monitor when you don't place it right. Usually.
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That's why you should use a separate audio component to line out your PC audio. I've been using an early 90's Panasonic minicomponent since forever and it works wonders.
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But why, then everything looks shitty.
They force you to see the same amount of the map so that you won't get those extra pixels of data that will win you the match.
I thought the enjoyment of winning was the idea of playing a game...
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What's the real solution without the lag? Uh.
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Throw out my perfectly good 1080p monitor and just run a single monitor from now on.
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Set the 4k monitor to run at 1080p and hope it has a good up-scaling algorithm.
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buy a second video card and a second 4K monitor?
(I realize you probably wouldn't actually want to do this, so I'm actually more sort of wondering out loud if it would work.)
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They are terrified that someone will say they're bad at balancing games. It must be totally fair.
Some people like winning enough that they'd bother. I just like messing with the mechanics of games, so I wouldn't.
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Both of my HDMI monitors support headphone out (OK, they're both the same model, but still).
If I replace one/both with a more expensive, higher spec monitor, I'd expect that to support HDMI audio and have a headphone socket too.
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In my situation, here's what the monitors look like in real life:
And here's what they look like in the control panel:
So you see the problem with the mouse thing. The mouse should behave like the real-life diagram suggests it would; instead the mouse behaves like the control panel diagram, because Windows (apparently?) has no idea what physical size the monitors are.
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Before TV went 1080p, monitor were 1200p... then they reduced the monitor to 1080p (same screen for all).
And everyone involved in that decision deserves to be repeatedly punched in the head.
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That's why you should use a separate audio component to line out your PC audio. I've been using an early 90's Panasonic minicomponent since forever and it works wonders.
I like people telling me what I should do when:
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The thing I was doing worked perfectly fine for years, and
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It costs me a lot of $$$
Look, how do I get the HDMI cable coming out of the HDMI switch box and extract its audio to my computer's line-in with a Panasonic minicomponent? Because if I Google Panasonic minicomponent I get an image like this:
and I have NO clue what you're talking about or how that could help me.
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The mouse in Windows is directly bound to screen pixels. Mouse sensitivity in the options in windows changes how often the mouse changes pixels, or how many to skip, unless you're an idiot and turn on acceleration. Because of this, it would be really hard for them to deal with this.
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3) buy a second video card and a second 4K monitor?
We already covered that, pay attention.
If you wanna donate the $1000 for it, I'll gladly take this option.
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Both of my HDMI monitors support headphone out (OK, they're both the same model, but still).
If I replace one/both with a more expensive, higher spec monitor, I'd expect that to support HDMI audio and have a headphone socket too.
Correct.
Since HDMI carries audio, what this new monitor is doing is LITERALLY JUST DELETING HALF OF THE HDMI SIGNAL!
That's such a huge WTF that I didn't even IMAGINE it as a possibility, and thus didn't look for it in the spec sheet. Stupid me.
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The mouse in Windows is directly bound to screen pixels. Mouse sensitivity in the options in windows changes how often the mouse changes pixels, or how many to skip, unless you're an idiot and turn on acceleration. Because of this, it would be really hard for them to deal with this.
You should know me enough by now to know that I don't like excuses when describing bugs. IT'S A BUG. The excuses don't make it less of a bug.
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Yeah, I'm not invalidating Blakey's complaint, which is actually valid. It's just that since I've always used an external audio component, I've never been tied to anything else. I'm usually not a headphone guy inside my house anyways, and the standard TV/monitor speakers are usually garbage so I wouldn't pipe audio through that at all.
Look, how do I get the HDMI cable coming out of the HDMI switch box and extract its audio to my line-in with a Panasonic minicomponent? Because if I Google Panasonic minicomponent I get an image like this:
Sorry, I was just offering a suggestion. That minicomponent is a huge new one, mine is quite a bit smaller (no subwoofer, for one). Those devices have an audio in jack, you plug it to your motherboard's audio out jack. You don't need a new one at all, just something that lets you control volume from it and plug a headphone, and sounds better than TV/monitor speakers to boot.
Maybe it's not as common as I'm used to? I've had that setup since forever and every PC my dad has ever had piped the audio through a device like that, so I grew accustomed to it I guess. Small PC speakers should do the same job, I guess.
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The best I've seen is Heroes of Newerth. In DirectX mode, it alt-tabs horribly and destroys the universe. Set it to OpenGL, no issues. I assume this is because OpenGL has no need to do anything with DirectX. Other games, like Awesomenauts and Warsow have never exhibited any issues alt-tabbing. But so many games never reopen, or just crash immediately.
That's probably the fault of the game, not DX.
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Sorry, I was just offering a suggestion. That minicomponent is a huge new one, mine is quite a bit smaller (no subwoofer, for one). Those devices have an audio in jack, you plug it to your motherboard's audio out jack. You don't need a new one at all, just something that lets you control volume from it and plug a headphone, and sounds better than TV/monitor speakers to boot.
But how does that help me when the audio's in the HDMI cable?
I already have good speakers plugged into my PC. I'm trying to figure out how you were proposing this solves the problem of taking audio from an HDMI cable (without fucking with the video signal) and delivering it to my PC's line-in port.
Right now I don't HAVE to do that because my old cheap Dell 1080p monitor does it for me. I just plug-in a double-ended 3.5mm cable and I'm golden.
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I already have good speakers plugged into my PC. I'm trying to figure out how you were proposing this solves the problem of taking audio from an HDMI cable (without fucking with the video signal) and delivering it to my PC's line-in port.
Why would you need audio piped to your monitor if you're already getting it to your speakers?
I know it's shitty that they're throwing out the audio part of HDMI, just saying.
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of taking audio from an HDMI cable (without fucking with the video signal) and delivering it to my PC's line-in port.
Can't you tell Windows to output audio on Line-out and not send any audio over HDMI, then?
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Can't you tell Windows to output audio on Line-out and not send any audio over HDMI, then?
Windows automatically does that if I plug in my speakers in my case (I use a TV with HDMI as my main monitor).
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Why would you need audio piped to your monitor if you're already getting it to your speakers?
Ok. Do you know what an Xbox 360 is? Let's start from the basics.
Can't you tell Windows to output audio on Line-out and not send any audio over HDMI, then?
The audio isn't coming FROM my computer. It's coming FROM the Xbox plugged into the monitor. It needs to go INTO my computer so it can show up on the Twitch.tv stream and also then be routed to the nice speakers.
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I know that. That's why I've said so uptopic. But most games are awful at doing DirectX right. OpenGL has it easy, because it doesn't use it at all. That's the point I was making. Maybe I should explain that again in a few posts, just in case.
You should know me enough by now to know that I don't like excuses when describing bugs. IT'S A BUG. The excuses don't make it less of a bug.
Probably. What would be the best way to handle it? Detect the percentage down the screen the cursor is and move it to that percentage of the next screen as you move it? That would probably work.
